that would be way cool to study that stuff

isnt there already courses on magic and spellcraft at some US colleges?

or in the UK i think its a great idea all hail i just hope they do it right

If you study the occult in a classroom setting, it could take some of the mystery and fear out of it. This might have a calming effect on a lot of people. I am all for it. After all, we have Bible studies in a college setting. Who is to say which is right...Witch doctor or Preacher

I think thats a geat idea. I wish they did that in my school.

Yeehaw - sounds good to me.

I don't see a problem with it. Knowledge is knowledge and as long as it's presented in it's complete and unbiased form then it's all good.

It's interesting to me that according to the article he'll be teaching an "Indian" form of Witchcraft mainly "Healing Practices". I wasn't aware that such Mystic Teachings and Practitioners were called Witches or Witchcraft. I guess the generic term of Witch and Witchcraft is just accepted everywhere from Voodoo to Shamen to Pagan.

I wonder how long it will be until we start seeing Burnings and Drownings of the Students and Teachers associated with it?!?!?

I will be one of those who oppose the idea.

At least until all religions are able to be studied in schools. When the bible was taken out of schools, it was for a reason. What one I have no clue! Do to that alone though, the educational system has screwed itself. Beliefs BANNED from school?!

And now the introduction of an obvious contraversial belief?! I personally do not care who believes what, but if these things are going to be taught. Bias should not be the teacher...

I would agree with advisor. Not in a public school setting. Unless christian classes are offered.

I however support the creation of witchcraft and occult colleges since there are already schools for christians, jews, ect, if they have bible colleges, why not book of shaodw colleges? It would be great if they did form schools for the arcane and magical aspects of various religions.

But, as advisor said, we dont want any religion pushed down peoples throats, as long as it isnt enforced into the curriculum, but taken as an elective, why the fck not?

Knowledge is not knowledge, that is why occult knowledge is known as 'hidden knowledge' it is hidden for a reason and needs to be left there. This is not the type of knowledge to be messing around with unless you are completely aware of any repercussions..

This particular knowledge stays hidden from certain people for a reason. I cannot express this more. It can be dangerous & not just for the one delving in it. Even studying this can cause certain things to be shown, before you know you are deeply involved in something you have no clue how you got involved and how to break free..

It is crossing a line into the depths of the deepest unknown and once you cross, good luck finding your way back, unless you are someone who doesn't fear this

Like Skadi and Advisor have pointed out, which I took for granted or implied as known already. Certainly the fact that such a subject is allowed should mean that the study of all similar subjects should also be allowed.

This brings me to a point I left out of the first post in fact. I can't say for sure as I do not know the amount of information this class offers, but I would personally start with a less specific idea and base the class or an Overview of Major Mystic Practices or World Religious Philosophies. Then offer more directed courses of learning after that.

Also I was assuming that this course is one of an elected or chosen nature. Am I correct in thinking this? Cause if it is to be a required area of study then I would have to disagree just as I would disagree in required religious or mystic study of any kind.

I think most people here also probably assumed the same as I did that this course is elective and the choice of alternate similar study is also available. Unless of course there are many more Mystic/Nature Based/Paganistic followers here at ATS than I realized.

Originally posted by magestica
Knowledge is not knowledge, that is why occult knowledge is known as 'hidden knowledge' it is hidden for a reason and needs to be left there. This is not the type of knowledge to be messing around with unless you are completely aware of any repercussions..

This particular knowledge stays hidden from certain people for a reason. I cannot express this more. It can be dangerous & not just for the one delving in it. Even studying this can cause certain things to be shown, before you know you are deeply involved in something you have no clue how you got involved and how to break free..

It is crossing a line into the depths of the deepest unknown and once you cross, good luck finding your way back, unless you are someone who doesn't fear this

Ok, well I would have to disagree with you also in your disagreement with me.

Occult knowledge is hidden but I don't think it's hidden for anyone's benefit other than those who are hiding it. I've studied witchcraft in both the sugar coated Wicca perspective and the darker more Occult Pagan view point. This no more makes me a Devil worshiper or Evil Pratictioner of Pagan Ideals or Human Sacrifice than anyone else. Knowledge IS Knowledge and the only harm comes from Ignorance, Misunderstanding, or Fear of something Unknown. Knowing about atomic energy or how to build an atomic bomb doesn't mean that Building one is a good idea. Knowledge acquired is different than Knowledge put to use. The ones hiding the information want others to fear it, or quest for it, and to think of it as special and powerful because that is more power they have over those without it. There is nothing wrong with learning everything and anything out there you can learn, especially the occult. The importance isn't so much what someone knows, but what they do with that knowledge. Do you see the difference?

edit was "...have over those with(OUT) it."

[Edited on 28-9-2003 by mOjOm]

The point I am trying to reflect is that not all knowledge is the same. As not all books are the same. I can open a book-the same book as you-read it, close it and forget about it and move on, where as someone else can open the same book, read it and USE it, or be changed by it, in a way they had not intended..

Mystical experiences and practices are not for everyone as you yourself said and it also depends on how deeply you are willing or even 'unwilling' to go with that knowledge..
If it was meant for everyone, the it wouldn't be deemed 'hidden'..I'm not saying it's satanic or evil and so on..I'm just saying it's special knowledge that not everyone should get their hands on. Also, deep occult knowledge is not something "everyone" CAN get their hands on, even if they wanted to.

Your involvement into the unknown suddenly becomes aware to others, who can use their knowledge/practices to corrupt your mind, and most people are completely unaware of this in the beginning.

I don't know how far you've gone in your studies, but you will know when you tap into something that wasn't necessarily intended for you to see.

So my point is, do whatever 'you' feel is right. I cannot change what you do or choose. But there is a darkness involved within this knowledge that once accessed can change ones life for an eternity..
Magestica

Originally posted by magestica
The point I am trying to reflect is that not all knowledge is the same. As not all books are the same. I can open a book-the same book as you-read it, close it and forget about it and move on, where as someone else can open the same book, read it and USE it, or be changed by it, in a way they had not intended..

Mystical experiences and practices are not for everyone as you yourself said and it also depends on how deeply you are willing or even 'unwilling' to go with that knowledge..
If it was meant for everyone, the it wouldn't be deemed 'hidden'..I'm not saying it's satanic or evil and so on..I'm just saying it's special knowledge that not everyone should get their hands on. Also, deep occult knowledge is not something "everyone" CAN get their hands on, even if they wanted to.

Your involvement into the unknown suddenly becomes aware to others, who can use their knowledge/practices to corrupt your mind, and most people are completely unaware of this in the beginning.

I don't know how far you've gone in your studies, but you will know when you tap into something that wasn't necessarily intended for you to see.

So my point is, do whatever 'you' feel is right. I cannot change what you do or choose. But there is a darkness involved within this knowledge that once accessed can change ones life for an eternity..
Magestica

I understand where you're coming from and I do realize the valid viewpoint you are talking about. However, as you have also pointed out, even you and I can gather a different understanding from reading the same text, and others a different understanding even still. This is truely the double edge sword of a "Life" that has but one certainty of "Death". In that what I mean to say is that the we have access to Calming Balance as well as the risky extremes with no promise of obtaining either, or the opportunity. I can therefore live a life of freedom without fear or restrictions, but I can only live for myself and not others. What I do not want hidden from me I therefore can not expect it hidden from others. If another obtains knowledge and is careless with it, that is the risk I must face if I am to expect such knowledge to be available to me as well. Besides if what is written, no matter how dangerous, is the Truth, then it is not something to be hidden by anyone for any reason. As the truth is still the truth whether hidden or not. I do not try and restrict the possibilities of others and expect the same in return. So even though I do understand your point of view, I cannot support it. I understand there is risk in exposing what is hidden for all to view, but it's a risk I must take if I am to live without Fear of the Unknown. There is One Truth all else are Lies, Just as there is One way to live Free and everything else is Prison.

Ahh, so we agree to disagree whilst we actually agree

This is a very difficult subject to discuss openly..always has been, for me atleast as I know what dangers lie in hidden knowledge first hand. And how the affects of it can linger in your life until you are willing to accept it or come to terms with it..which has not been the case thus far..

And yes there are risks, just like there are risks driving in your vehicle, obviously most all people have the freedom to drive, but when someone is careless, it can change a life forever or even wound or take away a life-an innocent life..Perhaps even your own or someon else in your car etc..

But the exact risks we are talking about are not evident always until much later in the game. When you become involved with others who also possess the knowledge, then that is where extreme dangers can manifest into your life. I just could honestly go on forever with this discussion and even contradict myself several times..because there is such a fine line one not usually seen..

Again though, whatever blows ones skirt up
Magestica

Originally posted by magestica
Ahh, so we agree to disagree whilst we actually agree

Again though, whatever blows ones skirt up
Magestica

This was probably one of the few Civil and Considerate debates I've witnessed here at ATS. It was a pleasure to Agree and Disagree with you Magestica, I look forward to more discussions in the future!!

I respect your opinion as I do most-no matter how great it differs from my own, this is how I believe we can gain more 'knowledge'..but just like anyone, I can get heated in the moment of a passionate debate or belief. I just try and refrain from showing my emotion.

And also, the feeling is mutual. I would be grateful to engage in other debates with you..I enjoy reading your posts here (therefore, I'd never be rude in fear of running you off)
Magestica

this post seems to be about religion in schools so this is my opinion on it, if they're gonna teach religion in public schools it should be an elective course and they should offer every type of religious course(i am really keen on this idea cuz everyone should be able to see the belief systems out there so they can pick their own belief). If someone wants schooling in the manner of their religion they should go to private schooling which is tiered to thier religion.

Why not? They teach creation in colleges, they have bible classes this and that, Islamic studies, etcetera, so why not recongnize the other religions?

And... if they ever start prayer in school, they better allot time for ALL the religions, then, as well! WITHOUT discrimination!