Why do religious people hate gays?

Originally posted by magestica
But I, like many perhaps, whether "religious" or not, do not "agree" with the act of being homosexual. That's just me though, perhaps my lack of undrestanding, perhaps just my lack of reasoning. I personally don't think it is appropriate to have "relations" with someone of the same sex, just as I don't think it is appropriate to have relations with an animal or child or someone who does not want to "do it".

Do I think that these particular people above are hopeless? No. I believe that we all walk out our salvation and it isn't for me or you or some Christian/Religious group to decide whether certain people enter into the Kingdom of God or not.

One of the main things I've heard from preachers/pastors is fear of losing that unity in family. And not that I condone homosexuality, but the unity is being lost even without gay people in the world today. Maybe that's all part of the plan, who knows.

One of the thing's you've got to understand. They DO NOT "choose" to be gay! Do you "choose" to be straight? Are you going to discriminate against gay people because their genetic coding dictate's their sexual prefrence? Do you realize how pathetically stupid such a thing is?

Again, GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT GAY BY CHOICE. This isn't just towards you, it's towards all those of religous standing or those who just simply hate gay people. If anything, the religous crowed has ALOT of growing up to do. Bunch of childish superstition's.

I'm thouroughly confused by your response. I didn't post anywhere that I hate gays. So here's a question for you..why do you hate me?

I think you missed this part..

"This isn't just towards you"

The thing that set me off in your post was this.

"do not "agree" with the act of being homosexual."

Why do you not "agree" with it? It's not their choice. People are born the way they are. People gotta grow up and realize that. You don't disagree with people being born straight do you? Why do you accept one genetic variation over the other? That IMO is just ignorant and wrong.

Perhaps I should have chosen a different word beside's hate. The general message is the same anyways. I never did say that I hated you. I just hate religous arrogance and ignorance and the hypocrits.

Originally posted by magestica
But I, like many perhaps, whether "religious" or not, do not "agree" with the act of being homosexual.

I, too, am confused by this sentiment. Although I'm going to remain calm about it.

I don't understand what people mean when they say they don't "agree" with homosexuality. Do you mean you don't "approve"? That would make more sense. But to say I don't agree with it makes it sound like homosexuality is an opinion.

Let's take another group. Smokers, for example. To say "I don't agree with smokers" begs the question, what don't you agree with? That they smoke?

So, if we could just clear that up, is it that you don't approve of homosexuality? Which by the way is a completely valid point of view, whether I "agree" with it or not.

So, if we could just clear that up, is it that you don't approve of homosexuality? Which by the way is a completely valid point of view, whether I "agree" with it or not.

How is that a valid POV? I fail to see how not accepting how people being born is valid? That's like saying I don't accept or agree with people being born with mental handicaps (EDIT: or people born with physical defects). It's not a valid POV at all, it's just ignorant and wrong and discriminating.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Prot0n]

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Prot0n]

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's not valid. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Right or wrong, ignorant or educated. Open-minded or closed. Discrimination, racism, bigotry exist. I don't approve of them, but they are valid in that everyone is entitled to their opinion.

You think it's wrong, I think it's wrong, but he is allowed to have and express it.

That's what I mean by valid - not that I agree with him, because I don't.

[edit on 1-4-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I don't agree with the "act" which as we know is a sexual one so I need not describe it.

The reason is this; I'm me not you and I disagree period. I've had gay friends nearly all my life at one point or another and we get along fine. I don't condem them for being this way or that way. I believe there is enough study to state that some gay people are gay genetically and some make a choice to be gay, I don't even ask them which they are. There is also enough study to state that some people are pedaphiles genetically! Again, for obvious reasons I certainly don't agree with that act.

In the end, whether genetic or not, we all make an "active choice" to do something or live a certain way. People in general are not all going to agree with my way of life and I may not agree with theirs, but by no means does this say that I hate them. Disagreeing and hating are not even in the same catagory. But by actively and openly disagreeing, it's always good to be aware of tactics because it is surely to start some heated debate which could lead to hate at some point, however noone should be afraid or hindered to disagree because we are after all, human.

Funny how this is such a difficult concept for so many.

I'm not going to speak for "religious" people because people can get pretty religious about so many things, and most of those poeple and their things do not fall into my particular category. I will speak as a Christian, as the Holy Bible (KJV 1611, for me) clearly says.

God hates sin, and some sins He listed as abominations. This particular sin is one of them. It goes against the very nature of sexuality as He created us. In the OT, it is clear how they were to handle cases of such acts, and I assure you, He did not tell His people to embrace them as members of a perfectly acceptable lifestyle.

Let's look on to the NT, and see how it is today. Today, we see that Christ died for our sins. He died for EVERYONE, by the way, not just for the pious. All anyone has to do is accept Him. What happens to the non-believing heterosexual when he dies? The same thing that happens to the homosexual. So, how is it that the Christian is supposed to be? We are to hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Now, let's make this perfectly clear; it is not necessary to hand over our nation, our society and our culture in order to love the sinner. We have the right and duty to stand firmly against allowing the nation to become corrupted by the furthering of the homosexual agenda, and in doing so, no hate should or has to be aimed at teh sinner.

One of the reasons those who push the agenda have the ability to scream "bigotry, bias!" as if the abominable act is a minority status is the fact that people have a tendancy to "tolerate" some sins more than others. Of course, this is partially due to the citizenry not only allowing the media to sway their opinions on such topics as adultry and irresponsible sex, but then acting upon the immoral lessons they have learned while being glued to the Idiot Box. Such actions certainly make it look as if we accept some sins as ok and others as not.

To boil it down to the Christian phrase, "love the sinner but hate the sin."

Originally posted by magestica
I don't agree with the "act" which as we know is a sexual one so I need not describe it.

Again, I submit the word you should be using here is APPROVE instead of AGREE. What don't you agree with? That it's happening?

I mean, at least own up to not approving of homosexuality. Saying you don't "agree" with it is just to soften the blow of your judgment.

The following statements can be agreed with or disagreed with:

He's funny!
That's a pretty dress.
That girl is hot!

The following ideals can be approved of or disapproved of:

Homosexuality
Premarital Sex
Religion

Or you could use "agree" if stated this way:

I don't agree that homosexuality is decided at birth.
I don't agree that our society should accept homosexuality.
I don't agree that homosexuality is "ok"

But "I don't agree with homosexuality or homosexual acts" doesn't make sense. What don't you agree with?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Again, I submit the word you should be using here is APPROVE instead of AGREE. What don't you agree with? That it's happening?

I mean, at least own up to not approving of homosexuality. Saying you don't "agree" with it is just to soften the blow of your judgment.

But "I don't agree with homosexuality or homosexual acts" doesn't make sense. What don't you agree with?

I do not agree with the act of being gay but I'm not in a position to judge any person so that is why I cannot say that I disapprove. It's not my job or my duty (at least as far as I'm aware) to disapprove with someone's lifestyle. Heck, I haven't agreed with my own lifestyle in certain instances. I'm going to stand firm that I disagree not disapprove because ultimately, I'm not a judge or jury to find a person guilty of this or that sin. We've all commited them at one point or another.

Do I think it is sinful for a man to lay with another man, yes(by man I speak for wo man too). But in the end we are all going to have to face up to our own sins, so why would I want to carry someone elses? That's what Jesus did. But am I going to hate someone for their sin, no. I am trying to love everyone I meet or know without letting their sin get in the way, just as I am trying to love myself.

Again, we all walk out our own salvation and that's what we are all doing here alive in the flesh.

I'm sorry, I still find it rather wrong to think of gay's as being sinfull. Maybe I can understand those very few who may choose it, but those who are BORN gay, I can't understand the reasoning for not accepting it.

I still hold that not accepting (atleast) genetically born gays is just as disgusting as saying I don't accept someone being born with a physical defect or with a mental handicap. It's just wrong imo and discriminating. Your judging against the way people are born. Don't make me pull out a bible verse! I'm not afraid to use it!

It is NOT a sin to be geneticall gay anymore then it is a sin to be born with a physical or mental handicap. These people DO NOT CHOOSE to be born that way. All I see is a bunch of discriminating people using a book written by a discriminating group of people in order to justify they're discriminating views. Let's go discriminate agains children born without a limbs while we're at it!

Prot0n:

Being gay isn't a sin. Don't sweat it. Look past the narrow-mindedness.

Originally posted by Landis
Prot0n:

Being gay isn't a sin. Don't sweat it. Look past the narrow-mindedness.

I know it's not lol. I just have a problem with those who think it is. All because of what some book says. I really believe if that work of fiction said in order to acheive salvation you must jump to your death, people would do it... out of "faith". It's just irritating when people hold a certain view against another person over what a book says or through their own lack of being able to understand why a person is the way they are or were born.

Some people just can't let go of the Dark Ages. That's their problem, not yours.

Originally posted by magestica
I do not agree with the act of being gay but I'm not in a position to judge any person so that is why I cannot say that I disapprove.

You are judging, though. We all do. Hey, I don't approve of lying. I'm just honest enough to say it. I have judgments against people who lie.

Telling yourself you're not judging because you use the word "disagree" is just a cop-out. It's a way to judge and disapprove without actually admiting it. Think about it.

You use whatever word you wish to use, but I'm not buying it. My judgment is that you disapprove of homosexuality. And that's ok. That's your choice and you're entitled to it. Plenty of people do. I'd just like to see you own it.

Originally posted by Prot0n
I can't understand the reasoning for not accepting it.

I have theories about people not approving of it, but I can't say I always understand it either. And regardless of what reason people use for not approving of it, there are plenty of people who think there's not a thing wrong with it.

Thomas Crowne explained very well why he doesn't approve of it. And I believe him. I totally 100% disagree with him, but I understand where he's coming from.

All I see is a bunch of discriminating people using a book written by a discriminating group of people in order to justify they're discriminating views.

Many times, I see the same thing, but not always.

Tell me, Prot0n, is there a lifestyle that you disapprove of? Alcoholism? Drug users? Strippers? Well, obviously there is! You disapprove of religion, don't you? You have your reasons, don't you? The same way you have your judgments about religion and how people use it, magestica and others have their reasons for disapproving of homosexuality.

It all depends on our context in life and what we were taught, our opinions, beliefs, you know?

I don't know how I can tell you otherwise being that you've already made up your mind that I am judging people for being gay. I do have an opinion on the subject and I will express my opinion cordially if brought up, just as I've done here a few times. But I don't think that a person is going to hell for being gay nor do I think a person is in the wrong for being gay, I just don't understand the act at all.

So I'll admit that I may tend to sit on the fence with this one but I'm not being judgmental while doing so, I guess I just can't -as you say own up to that-because I've befriended so many wonderful people in my life that are homosexual. I loved being around them, I loved conversing with them and they always respected that I was uncomfortable with talking about s-e-x with them, so we never talked about that and it was never a problem. I never questioned or doubted their love though for their partner, not once though. And I didn't preach to them or lecture them that what they were doing was wrong in the eyes of the Lord because I didn't think it was my place to do that. How can I tell someone they are wrong when I myself am a sinner, now that IS hypocritical and judgemental.

I just know this, I'm a sinner and am not perfect and my sinning is in no way better or worse than anothers' and sin is sin no matter how we look at it or sugar coat it or even justify it. I don't agree with the act of being homosexual but I am unable for the life of me to tell someone or feel inside me that I personally disapprove of it. So I guess I disagree but approve, otherwise I wouldn't even associate myself with gay people period.

Tell me, Prot0n, is there a lifestyle that you disapprove of? Alcoholism? Drug users? Strippers? Well, obviously there is! You disapprove of religion, don't you? You have your reasons, don't you? The same way you have your judgments about religion and how people use it, magestica and others have their reasons for disapproving of homosexuality.

Do you disapprove of people born with physical defect's or mental problems? Do you disapprove of adult's who've got the mental capacity of an infant and need to be cared as such? Do you disapprove of people being born straight? Do you disapprove of a couple showing affection towards one another when they are in love?

Your logic, imo is wrong. How can you disapprove of gay people born gay but not disapprove people born with say, a mental handicap? It's discriminating and you know it. So what, people born gay fall in love with the same sex. Big deal. What they do in the bedroom is no more of a sin then what you do in the bedroom.

Thank you very much for that explanation, magestica.

I'm not sure what you mean then, when you say you disagree with it. If you approve of it, you don't think it's wrong and you don't think gay people will go to hell for being gay, then what do you disagree with? Do you simply mean that you think homosexuality is a sin?

Because that word (disagree) is very confusing to me in this context. What does that mean? If someone says 2 + 2 = 5. I can say I disagree and give an explanation. Can you tell me what it means to disagree with homosexuality, while approving of it?

I am wide open to the possibility that I have been wrong here. And thank you for your patience.

Originally posted by Prot0n
How can you disapprove of gay people born gay

I don't. I am an avid proponent of equal rights for homosexuals. I am totally supportive of gay people, regardless of whether they're born that way or not. I totally support transexuals, cross-dressers, drag queens, whatever gender thing people have going on, I support it.

Now that that's clear, is there a lifestyle that you disapprove of?

I don't. I am an avid proponent of equal rights for homosexuals. I am totally supportive of gay people, regardless of whether they're born that way or not. I totally support transexuals, cross-dressers, drag queens, whatever gender thing people have going on, I support it.

Ah ok, I was under the impression that you were against gay people as well. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now that that's clear, is there a lifestyle that you disapprove of?

Yes, there are some immoral lifestyle's I disagree with. Particularly drug abuser's. I won't say I disagree with the moral teaching's of religous belief's, but I do disagree with how people use certian verses in twisted ways for their own purposes, such as gay bashing. Stripper's, I don't have a problem with. I'm fine with nudity and sexuality. It's not "taboo". If they choose to earn money that way, more power to them, it's a good money making business. I do think alchoholics need help as it's not healthy for them in the long run to drink like that, but I wouldn't say I "disagree" with drinking. I occasionally crack open a nice cold Bud every now and then myself.

magestica and others have their reasons for disapproving of homosexuality.

What reason's? Because a book says so? Because they're born that way? I fail to understand the reason's. How can it be reasoned that its wrong for two men or women born that way to show affection for one another? Since when was love wrong? Love is only right so long as it's between a man and a woman? I'm sorry, but it's discriminating. Discrimination is not a valid reason for jack.