It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is masonary connected to the Knights Templer?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 05:58 PM
link   
Can anyone give me some facts on this? I'm intrigued by the Freemasons. Were the remaining Templers the ones who formed the Freemasons?




posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 06:04 PM
link   
Masonry decended from Scotish secret societies while the Templars were created by the Pope to 'liberate' the holy land.

They recently declared their independence from any King or Pontif.


We do further state that in times past the Order has bound itself to King and Pontiff. In the course of historical events, doing so allowed for the Order´s almost total destruction. We, therefore, do here and now abolish these bonds that formerly connected Templar to any King or Pontiff and pledge ourselves only to God and God’s service. We assert our right of free association with any group or groups and declare that we are a free and independent Order of the faithful.

Continued....


Note that there are two oragainzations that call themselves Templars.

The newer one is Masonic, the other is the old Papal order.

Here is the official web site for the real Templars:

www.ordotempli.org...

[edit on 25-12-2005 by ArchAngel]



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 07:18 PM
link   
MacDonagh

It would depend on which theory as to the origen of freemasonry you ascribe to.

John J. Robinson makes a good case, in "Born in Blood". That what is now called freemasonry is decended from a society formed by the Knights Templar in England when they went underground after the arrests in France in 1350.

The "official" version goes that freemasonry decended from the stone worker guilds in England during the middle ages.

The fact of the matter is that the origens, (prior to 1717, when four lodges in London joined together to form the Grand Lodge of England, and went publice for the first time) is undocumented.

While many masons have tried to piece together the remanants of the early period, or to trace back various aspects of the teachings. All anyone has accomplished so far is speculation. Each mason who tries to determin our origan has to come to his own conclusions.

I wish I could give a more diffinative answer to your question.

[edit on 25-12-2005 by Masonic Student]



posted on Dec, 26 2005 @ 04:01 PM
link   
I can't answer the original question but Masonry and the Templars do intertwine.

thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...

www.shawneemasoniclodge54.com...

www.angelfire.com...

[edit on 26-12-2005 by Huabamambo]



posted on Dec, 26 2005 @ 06:33 PM
link   
I think the remnants of the Knights Templar that escaped to Scotland and the knowledge they aquired and preserved during the their little trip to the Holy Land had EVERYTHING to do with the switch from operative to speculative Freemasonry. I also think they were the ones who introduced the Blue Degrees to Freemasonry however I don't think it is the correct interpretation of the Hiram ritual/story.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:50 AM
link   


John J. Robinson makes a good case, in "Born in Blood". That what is now called freemasonry is decended from a society formed by the Knights Templar in England when they went underground after the arrests in France in 1350.


actually that would be 1307, Friday 13 Mar. 1307 to be exact.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 08:59 AM
link   
According to Masonic History the Templars were the first ones to set sail for the New World when they were persecuted from Europe.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 11:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by MacDonagh
Were the remaining Templers the ones who formed the Freemasons?

In mackey's book on the legends about the origins of masonry, he discusses this topic.

The general idea is that the Templars started a secret society. That while they were stationed in the levant during the crusades, they came into contact with islamic mystic and philosophical groups, like the sufis, ismalii, assasins. Sometimes it is postulated that they actually picked it up from the neo-philosophical secretive Druze (apparently they dislike that appellation and prefer to be called Unitarians).
Impressed with their ideas, they adopted them. Then eventually they are anathema to the church, and it along with King Philip of France attempts to abolish them, sending out orders throughout Europe to destroy their order and them if necessary. The order is mostly broken up, but some, in places where the Papacy and Roi have less influence, like england and scotland, they manage to survive, or at least flee to.
In one variation, they escape by dressing as regular stonemasons, and hold that disguise to this day. In another variation, the Knights adopt the stonemasonry symbols and terminology because they are building castles, and in particular using the advanced science and architectural motifs and styles of islam.
So now we have a primitive version of masonry that is secretly the remainder of the Knights Templar.
But there are a few problems. The references to the Knights Templar in masonic rites, upon which the idea that they are the parents of the masons, are apparently much later additions. In the York Rite, for example, the highest degree is that of Knight Templar. But, agian, these are recent additions, done because the creators of the degrees must've been as equally fascinated with the Knights Templar as the rest of us.
The major problem is that the idea itself simply doesn't jive. I don't see anything especially telling in masonry that indicates its the result of islamic mysticism (tho the order does seem to like to keep up that mythos, refering to wisdom from the east (yes, its also the land of the rising sun) and of course the Shriners are islam-ish, in accessories anyway, and that, agian, is a modern group). The beleifs of the Unitarians are very clouded, but there doesn't seem to be all that much in common either. And of course, I haven't seen anything about the Knights Templar that indicated they were sufi-like either, nor, for that matter, that their group had anything in common with Masonry either.
The major problem, besides the above and the fact that the Knight Templar far predate masonry, in my mind, is that these guys, these warrior monks, simply aren't going to take up the motiffs, dress, language, and ethic of a lowly group of day laborers, they're not the ones that phyiscally planned out and made their castles either.

As far as modern groups claiming to be the Knights Templar, the order was thoroughly destroyed by the papacy the king of france. None of the groups can demonstrate in any meaningful way that they have anything to do with the old military order.


Snake Plissken
however I don't think it is the correct interpretation of the Hiram ritual/story.

Interesting, what is your take on it?


Huabamambo
According to Masonic History the Templars were the first ones to set sail for the New World

What is the source for this claim as something masonry holds?



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 02:08 PM
link   
All im going to sayabout this is someone into masonry can pretty much find a job anywhere. Search the classifieds for jobs in the newpaper and you'll all find an employer looking for an experienced mason.

[edit on 27-12-2005 by jrod]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:01 AM
link   


As far as modern groups claiming to be the Knights Templar, the order was thoroughly destroyed by the papacy the king of france.


Interesting statement. Being as the Templar fleet (18 vessels according to legend) disappeared. One Templary in france escaped unscathed, the majority
of monies in paris disappeared. One Templary in Ireland ( the closest to Scotland
as I recall) was stripped bare of arms, and the arrest order was never issued
or valid in Scotland . King (Robert Bruce) and Country had been excommunicated thus were outside papal law.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:29 AM
link   
True enough stalking wolf, but after that date they effectively cease to exist, as a coordinated/continental group and as Knights Templar. I don't recall, though I may certainly be ignorant on the matter, the Knights Templar ever being involved in much of anything after that. Some have said that, say, the missing fleet become pirates, but how long can whatever rituals and beleifs and rites that the KT have survive in an environment like that? If they resorted to banditry, which is a reasonable explanation for their dissapearance, then they're not the KT anymore anyway, and clearly they're not being directed by a grand commander who is also overseeing other groups and maintaining their castles and forts and bank accounts.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 04:59 PM
link   
wow, that's alot of info to take in. Tell me. What sort of secrets do the Freemasons hold? Isn't that what a secret society is all about? Secrets and stuff? What do the highest ranked masons learn? Any masons care to share? Or do you all have to keep mum about it.

*mum*not saying anything. keeping quiet.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:01 PM
link   
The most suprising feature of the Knights Templar is how they were the first international bankers,the first to have created a sophisticated banking system. There are also links between the Templars to the European banking families that later created the Federal Reserve which is a privately owned interest parasite on the United States.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by Snake Plissken
The most suprising feature of the Knights Templar is how they were the first international bankers,the first to have created a sophisticated banking system. There are also links between the Templars to the European banking families that later created the Federal Reserve which is a privately owned interest parasite on the United States.


That's an intruiging statement, care to back it up with FACTS.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 07:10 PM
link   


I don't recall, though I may certainly be ignorant on the matter, the Knights Templar ever being involved in much of anything after that.


local tradition says that many fleeing Templars fled to Scotland and joined Bobert Bruce. Perpetuating their order in Scotland. I dont remember Who it is now , but as I recall It is either the Sinclair or Montgomery family that is now said to be the Hereditary GMs of The Templars.



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by Snake Plissken
The most suprising feature of the Knights Templar is how they were the first international bankers,the first to have created a sophisticated banking system. There are also links between the Templars to the European banking families that later created the Federal Reserve which is a privately owned interest parasite on the United States.


That's an intruiging statement, care to back it up with FACTS.


The Knights Templar being the first recognized bankers is pretty well established. Anyone can google that. What is not readily established is the links between the early banking families(most Jewish) and the Knights Templar. I draw my conclusions from some direct family lineages in the book "Bloodlines of the Illuminati" and other lineage books and the fact that the Knights Templar interacted with Arabs and more importantly Jews and they shared philosophy and this is where the Templars got the banking ideas and also their knowledge of the Kabbalah. Family bloodlines like Sinclair,Stuart,Rothschild,Rockefeller,etc... are the connective tissue. Here's a site ( www.save-a-patriot.org... ) that traces Rothschild to the Fed.


"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." -- Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" -- Mayer Amschel
Bauer Rothschild



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 08:31 AM
link   
The romantic tale of Templar descent has been embraced by many Masons, especially those American Masonic authors of the 19th century. Some Masons still believe this legend, but Masonic scholars are generally united against it.

At present, there has been not one single shred of evidence uncovered that demonstrates a link between Freemasonry and the original Templars.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 10:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The romantic tale of Templar descent has been embraced by many Masons, especially those American Masonic authors of the 19th century. Some Masons still believe this legend, but Masonic scholars are generally united against it.

At present, there has been not one single shred of evidence uncovered that demonstrates a link between Freemasonry and the original Templars.


I think that depends on how you define evidence. How many coincidences add up to evidence? The locations,the time periods,and the influence all match up. This is currently under debate.

Degrees in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite such as the Knight of St Andrew, the Knight of Rose Croix, and the 32nd Degree in Consistory make reference to a Templar connection. John J. Robinson makes a case for the Templar-Masonic connection in his book "Born in Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry."

Robinson alleges that some French Templars fled to Scotland after the suppression of the Order, fearing persecution from both Church and state. He claims they sought refuge with a lodge of Scottish stone masons within which they began to teach the virtues of chivalry and obediance, using the builders tools as a metaphor; and eventually they began taking in "speculative masons" (men of other professions) in order to ensure the continuation of the Order. According to Robinson, the Order existed in secret in this form until the formation of the United Grand Lodge of England in 1717.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 11:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
local tradition says that many fleeing Templars fled to Scotland and joined Bobert Bruce. Perpetuating their order in Scotland.

Thats whats usually presented about that. But i really have to wonder at why they would't continue to call themselves Knights Templar, since they are still functioning as knights. And especially since, according to this idea, they continue to function as a secret society. Nor can I really see how they're going to go from crusading knights fighting with the bruce. into stoneworkers.


snake plissken
where the Templars got the banking ideas and also their knowledge of the Kabbalah

What knowledge of the kabbalah? What I mean is, how do we know that that is what they beleived? The little that we have about their beleifs doesn't jive with them being an esoteric-eastern type of group. They certainly intereacted with the assasins, sufis, druze, jews, etc, but they don't have anything in common with them.

that traces Rothschild to the Fed.

What shows that these families are connected to the Templars, and what else can be meant by that other than that they are Templars.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 12:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nygdan



snake plissken
where the Templars got the banking ideas and also their knowledge of the Kabbalah

What knowledge of the kabbalah? What I mean is, how do we know that that is what they beleived? The little that we have about their beleifs doesn't jive with them being an esoteric-eastern type of group. They certainly intereacted with the assasins, sufis, druze, jews, etc, but they don't have anything in common with them.

that traces Rothschild to the Fed.

What shows that these families are connected to the Templars, and what else can be meant by that other than that they are Templars.


I think you just answered your own question. The Orders(that you pointed out) the Templars intimately interacted with during their stint as comrades is where they obtained their grasp of mysticism and the Kabbalah.

Here's an excerpt from Esoteric and Secret Organizations Throughout the Ages by: G. A. JANSEN that appeared in American Mason:

Enter The Knights Templar
And so we come to the Knights Templar, originally a military body who, during the Crusades, had come in touch with esoteric teaching through their Arabian contacts. From this source came knowledge of the Jewish Kabbalah as well as of the Tarot Cards.

This is also interesting if you get a chance: www.gnosis.org...

Like I said,you can trace the current banking families to the original KT bankers by lineage. It's also common knowledge that certain bloodlines have always had a rich history of dominance in certain areas of business and commerce. If I can find the time,I'll gather my sources and try and put together some sort of family tree to post. There is also as Masonic Light pointed out,many mason and non-mason alike,myself included,who feel the KT had everythign to do with modern Freemasonry. What can be meant here by these connections is further speculation to the notion that secret societies have in the past and still do today play a interconnected role in global affairs behind the scenes further supporting the staggering mass of evidence pointing towards a conspiracy for world domination(NWO).



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join