The Illuminati are portrayed as evil and persecuted by religous groups simply because they are a threat to them.
People who are tied to a religon are bound to find them threatening and maybe even perceive them as evil because they are taught that anything which threatens their beliefs is bad and also (in Christianity at least) you are taught to worship a hypothetiocal being - in fact worshipping yourself or humanity is considered Satanism I believe.

If you are a follower of religon then yes, I can see why you would think the Illuminati are bad, but the principles suggested would help us evolve and also potentially end a lot of conflict. There is a program on soon here in the UK looking at the world without religon and how it would be better or worse.
In the trailer the guy says (and his right):

"In a world without religon Good people would be good and Bad people would be Bad. In a world with Religon Good people can be Bad."

It's not just religous people who view them as evil or threatening. Thanks to the church and their lies, over time many people have hear bad thing's about the illuminati. Now we have all this conspiracy people who claim this and that of the illuminati, but not a single one of those people take the time to research WHO and WHAT the original Illuminati were. The only reason we have this mindset that they are an evil orginization is because the church decided back in the 1700's that they were destructive to the church. So, they set foth to destroy th image of the illuminati.

The truth is tho, and after looking into it. The original Illuminati wanted nothing more then to be free from the tyrany of the church back then. Not to be killed for holding opposing view's and to promote that *gasp* man doesn't need a bible to be moral and that ALL people on this planet are equal's. To have a world government that treat's everyone as equal's and promote's that people are worth something.

To me, this doesn't sound like an evil plot to destroy the church or raise satan for a holy war against god or an evil plot to take over the world and enslave mankind. You people need to stop promoting church propaganda about the Illuminati and educate yourselve's on the evil's of the church.

Originally posted by Produkt
but not a single one of those people take the time to research WHO and WHAT the original Illuminati were.

Many researchers use the Illuminati has a label for the people who control the world, not necessarily tied to the Bavarian Illuminati. Just a label in the same lines has NWO, although some see it has a satanic society, many don’t.

The truth is tho, and after looking into it. The original Illuminati wanted nothing more then to be free from the tyrany of the church back then.

Adam Weishaupt started the Bavarian Illuminati to combat the influence of the Jesuit society at his university. He wanted to this without loosing his position - that is why he employed the secret society model. They were pushing humanistic ideas and books such as Rousseau. Some were what we might consider, against the church, but once Von Knigge entered the order and reworked the degrees must of that was taking out. (he was a devout Christian.)


[edit on 5/1/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Many researchers use the Illuminati has a label for the people who control the world, not necessarily tied to the Bavarian Illuminati. Just a label in the same lines has NWO, although some see it has a satanic society, many don’t.

And it's becuase of this labeling that the original idea's of the Illuminati aren't even looked at. All I see posted here is the oh so evil Illuminati, but I don't see any post's showing how the original Illuminati, the one that started it all was in no way evil at all.

Adam Weishaupt started the Bavarian Illuminati to combat the influence of the Jesuit society at his university. He wanted to this without loosing his position - that is why he employed the secret society model. They were pushing humanistic ideas and books such as Rousseau. Some were what we might consider, against the church, but once Von Knigge entered the order and reworked the degrees must of that was taking out. (he was a devout Christian.)

I haven't read anything about Von Kingge yet, but... hime being from the church, infiltrating the Illuminati and changing the degree's of the original Illuminati show to me how the church is so hell bent on destroying any idea of humanism, which IS NOT a bad thing at all in any way.

Recently the pope mentioned a new world order... a new order for whom tho? The church's new world order, one world religion decided by the church? Persoanlly I'd love nothing more then to see a new world order within the view's of the original Illuminati.

Why don't you call them by their real names: bankers.

could be the church did destroy them, and now using the same name to trick people into thinking they are still the original illuminati? yet their purpose is to carry out there evil plans thje church has and use the illuminati as a scapegoat when the time comes. they are running it and are using it as a second false identity to hide there doings.

just a theory.

In 1783, Von Knigge wrote to Zwack:

The despotism of princes grows while the spirit of liberty is expanding everywhere. To consolidate these two extremes we say: Jesus didn’t want to create a new religion, but establish a natural religion based on reason. He wanted to reunite men in a wider fashion and make them capable of governing themselves, by spreading a moral wisdom and combating all prejudgments.

Source: Nachtrag von weiteren Originalschriften as printed in “Les Illumines de Baviere” by Rene Le Forestier.

Translation is mine. (so it’s not perfect)

Von Knigge wrote very much in keeping with humanism ideals. (Although by that point Weishaupt was beginning to doubt is sincerity.

BTW: I’m yet to find anything “wrong” with the Bavarian Illuminati myself. They are certainly not evil.

Why did Weishaupt start to doubt Von Kingge?

Originally posted by Produkt
Why did Weishaupt start to doubt Von Kingge?

There was already a great rivalry between Von Knigge and Weishaupt. Wieshaupt wanted to remain head of the order but had given a lot of his powers to Von Knigge. When the order grew successfully he wanted his powers back. I have no idea if he believed that Von Knigge was too religious, although Von Knigge believe that Weishaupt himself was under the influence of the Jesuit. And Von Knigge had given some secrets of the order (name of founder) to a member of a rival order, the Rose-Croix. (Rosucrucians?)

that gets us to the Bavarian Illumanati. Under that view I see no evil. Let's take it a step back, however, to an earlier time. (To help illustrate the point, which was my Third Point I asked to be shown by Haum.)

Scientific Illumanati of the 1600's. It is suppossed that such men as Gallileo and Milton were among the original Illumanati. The Enlightened Ones. Of course the Church despised science because it brought answers to miricles. Arts and Science have always been close, so it makes sense that guys like Milton would be known and respected and even part of such Free Thinking Groups. (For all the Laws, Science is a Free Thinking Group. That is why their are steps that can remove a law after consideration. Theories and the such. Open minds do more than closed ones in Science.)

So, they wished to move mankind forward with Science. That in and of itself is not an evil act. What mankind DOES with that science could be good or bad. The actual search for KNOWLEDGE was noble.

That's two Illumanati's (Bavarian and Scientific 1600's), neither evil in Original View.

However, on the Scientific 1600's, the murders of members by the church, along with jailing highly profiled memebers, lead to contempt. Perhaps they vowed to bring down the Church, which would take time and considerable resources. Enter bankers and infiltration and the whole NWO thing. Not to take over the world, just to topple the Church for revenge, and perhaps open the world to more enlightenment once the Church no longer controlled power over thought. Is that evil? In the Old Testament way, no. An Eye for an Eye. Depends on your view, and if you were of the Church... or a persecuted Free Thinker.

Sadistic at the extreme end of the spectrum, Wonderful for humanity at the other. I see no cause for an 'EVIL NWO ILLUMANATI'.

Again, back to the Basics.

1. Show me such a group existed (the root. Which Illumanati are we speaking of?)
2. Show me they still exist (more speculative).
3. Show me another group exists and where they root from, to oppose the Illumanati (same as 1. but for the 'good guys' of this thread).
4. Show me why the Illumanati should be stopped (this should be cleared up by explaining 1.)

However, on the Scientific 1600's, the murders of members by the church, along with jailing highly profiled memebers, lead to contempt. Perhaps they vowed to bring down the Church, which would take time and considerable resources. Enter bankers and infiltration and the whole NWO thing. Not to take over the world, just to topple the Church for revenge, and perhaps open the world to more enlightenment once the Church no longer controlled power over thought. Is that evil? In the Old Testament way, no. An Eye for an Eye. Depends on your view, and if you were of the Church... or a persecuted Free Thinker.

If they wanted to set out to topple the church they could've gone the way the church set out to topple earlier culture's and religion's. Goto war with them. Kill them. Threaten them.

Now I see alot of banker's being part of the NWO/Illuminati plot... should I now be wary of stepping into a bank? Should I ask my local banker to show me the secret Illuminati handshake? The Illuminati don't NEED to topple the church. The church is doing that just fine on it's own. The Illuminati need nothing more then gaining more member's. The more people who follow the path of the Illuminati, the less power the church has over the Illuminati and everyone else.

i still think the church is running the illuminati. i mean it makes sense. they are losing their power, so in order to keep it they make another "religion" and just degrade it repeatedly to give science people in it a bad name.

of course my approach toward the illuminati is somewhat discouraging even with the science one. they are not illuminated or enlightened in my eyes. science though is fun and does make for cure to curiosity, is not knowledge. i have a long reason as to why but ill let you figure out why.

just ask yourself
"why do i consider science knowledge? i will never really know it to be 100% true"
as a philospher said "the only thing a person knows is true is themselves"

Originally posted by grimreaper797
just ask yourself
"why do i consider science knowledge? i will never really know it to be 100% true"
as a philospher said "the only thing a person knows is true is themselves"

Look around you at all this technology and advance's in medicine etc... This is how you know it's true. If it wasn't, then alot of what you see around you, including this website shouldn't be true either.

The philosophy quote is true only in a way that, what a person chooses to believe is true, is the truth, but just because a person believe's a certain personal truth doesn't make it universally true.

this technology and stuff isnt from knowledge, its from creativity and understanding of what should usually happen. technology may make things more efficient but we will never further ourselves by it. just increase the ease which things are done. but make no mistake that this technology isnt knowledge.

my idea of knowledge and your idea of knowledge are different. you believe it is how far we can push technology and science. i must tell you after digging science will only bring you so far. advancing as beings of this word and understanding ourselves is the knowledge that will lead to technology being almost nothing to further in. right now we are narrow minded and just ignorant, thus technology moves at a slow rate compared to if we were a higher knowledgable race.

i mean just picture the billions towards war being used for science. how far that would put us.

true enlightenment is of the state of mind rather then the state of technology.

[edit on 5-1-2006 by grimreaper797]

You are way off. They couldn't just wage outright war against the Church, that would have been suicide.

1. Not enough 'troops' for the scientist. They don't know of war. Probably had never weilded a weapon. They use INTELLIGENCE as a weapon.
2. Value of life of the Enlightened. Each death to one with such intelligence seriously depletes the talents of the group. These were the brightest minds, nothing second rate here. 1,000 'followers' could die and enjoy heaven and you could replace them within the workforce. If just 5 minds were lost in this open war it would have cost us many years in technological advancement.
3. Peasants followed the Church, the Church spoke Science as an evil. You have to have popular support to wage war on the Offensive. The Illumanati would not have had that. The peasants themselves would have defeated the Illumanati in open war.

That is why the would use things like Infiltration, Espionage, and the more 'Intelligent' tactics involved in war. And they were smart enough to know that they didn't have to see this revenge in their lifetime, as long as it happened. Because Genious would continue on this planet, and would take up the call. The Church had to stop hindering Science.

I think this is why their will be not overthrow of the Church. They can only speak, they no longer kill or shut down science. No need to be rid of them now. Which means no need for the Illumanati Vendette to continue. If they still exist (in the Science 1600 form) then they should be as they origanally were.

You can't hold open war on something the size of the Church when you are an elite and selective group (probably no more than 100 members at any one time in the beginning). Not enough Power/Money/Manpower.

We are coming for you. We have waited for this moment for a very long time. We will bathe in your blood just as you have done to humanity. We will finish you off with a smile. We will kill you with joy. When it is all over we will redefine the meaning of sufferring. And it's all just for you. You cowards.

I read stuff like this all the time... but is anyone actually doing anything to stop the Illuminati? seems like everyone is wasting alot of time talking rather then doing while the illuminati get closer and closer to achieving their goals.

The next 4 years are most crucial for The Ill. Stealing the 2000 Election and 9/11 were "Wins" for them.

But we've got something ELSE planned. And they never saw it coming. They won't win, IMO

"The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller

“The Illuminati bankers rule the world through debt, which is money they create out of nothing. They need world government to ensure no country defaults or tries to overthrow them. As long as private bankers, instead of governments, create money the human race is doomed. These bankers and their allies have bought everything and everyone.” - Henry Makow

"I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over past forty-nine years, they would move on Washington. It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States." - Senator George Malone

"The one aim of these financiers is world control by the creation of inextinguishable debts." - Henry Ford

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are US government institutions. They are not. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the US for the benefit of themselves and their foreign and domestic swindlers, and rich and predatory money lenders. The truth is the Fed has usurped the government. The sack of the United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history." - Chairman, House Banking and Currency Committee

“Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal -- that there is no human relation between master and slave." - Leo Tolstoy

"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes the laws." Mayer Amschel Rothschild

“There is no more direct way to capture control of a nation than through its credit and money system.” - Phillip A. Benson, President, American Bankers' Association

"Most of FDR's thoughts were carefully manufactured for him in advance by the Council on Foreign Relations One World Money Group. The One-World government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank." - Curtis Dall, Son-in-Law of F.D.R.

“Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with the flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. If you want to continue to be the slave of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp (2nd richest man in England)

"By this means government may secretly and unobserved, confiscate the wealth of the people, and not one man in a million will detect the theft." - Lord John Maynard Keynes, “Economic Consequences of Peace”

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, 2002

“Our goal is gradually to absorb the wealth of the world.” - Cecil Rhodes, “The Secret Banking Cabal”

“The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That board administers a finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. That system is private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money. The people may not know it immediately but the day of reckoning is only a few years removed, the worst legislatives crime of the ages perpetrated by this banking bill.” - Charles A. Lindbergh

“The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the People vs. The Banks.” - Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England

"I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world. No longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." - Woodrow Wilson

“It may appear that what goes on is happenstance, but the government most surely has planned it.” - Franklin Roosevelt

"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government, which, like a giant octopus, sprawls its slimy length over city, state, and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They control both political parties." - John F. Hylan

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government, all under their control. Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." - Larry P. McDonald

"You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God, I will rout you out. If the American people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning." - Andrew Jackson

"The death of Lincoln was a disaster for Christendom. There was no man in the United States great enough to wear his boots and the bankers went anew to grab the riches. I fear that foreign bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it to systematically corrupt modern civilization." - Otto von Bismarck, German Chancellor

“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.” - Benjamin Disraeli, First Prime Minister of Britain