I still have not seen any evidence that it is specifically the illuminati [as in the actually group not 'them' or a vague definition] running things. I was under the impression that they were a group that were born through intellectual oppression and consisted of scientists, philophers, writers, artists etc.. who needed protection from the *Catholic church [which is why I find it strange when people say the pope is a member?] Wouldn't it be contradictory for them to want to control populations to the point where they cannot express new ideas? Wouldn't 'illuminating' humanity be their ultimate goal opposed to wanting to put it in shackles and prevent the next generation from making intellectual and technological progress? There may very well be shadow governments etc.. but there's no reason to assume it's this one group when historically their princibles have been at odds with those with [official] power. I'm starting to think this group is a victim of propaganda and has been used as a scapegoat.. further proved by Ratz's request for a *new world order.

The illuminati [if they exist] may be the good guys.

[edit on 1-1-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by riley
I still have not seen any evidence that it is specifically the illuminati [as in the actually group not 'them' or a vague definition] running things. I was under the impression that they were a group that were born through intellectual oppression and consisted of scientists, philophers, writers, artists etc.. who needed protection from the *Catholic church [which is why I find it strange when people say the pope is a member?] Wouldn't it be contradictory for them to want to control populations to the point where they cannot express new ideas? Wouldn't 'illuminating' humanity be their ultimate goal opposed to wanting to put it in shackles and prevent the next generation from making intellectual and technological progress? There may very well be shadow governments etc.. but there's no reason to assume it's this one group when historically their princibles have been at odds with those with [official] power. I'm starting to think this group is a victim of propaganda and has been used as a scapegoat.. further proved by Ratz's request for a *new world order.

The illuminati [if they exist] may be the good guys.

If there still is a modernday Illuminati, this is my take on them:


Their mission is not to illuminate humanity. Because, from what I understand, the Illuminati is a group of select few people who have the knowledge of many things that ordinary people don't, these things, whatever they are, enable them to control people to some extent. Then they have their followers, who want to attain this knowledge, but few of them ever will. Maybe that's what enables them to control these followers, gullibility? Maybe there is no 'secret knowledge'?

Anyway, it's a bit like when the first caveman learned how to create fire, and knew how to keep it going, other cavemen and women gathered around the fire because it gave them warmth when it was cold and it gave them light when it was dark. They probably thought it was magic.
So basicly, this caveman who knew how to create fire, the 'illuminated' caveman, could then control other people to some extent with his knowledge. Like if this illuminated caveman requested that another caveman would give him some of his food, and that caveman would deny the request, the illuminated one could deny him fire, and thus, eventually the other caveman would probably give in. Then this illuminated caveman would probably at some point make alliances with a select few cavemen that he trusted etc.
However, eventually some other cavemen figured out how to create fire, and shared the knowledge with others, and so the first illuminati ended.

Do you get what I'm saying?

The catholic church was nothing better. They claimed they had this divine knowledge and somekind of special connection with God. They said they knew that places like heaven and hell existed, that the bible was the truth, that the Church was the house of God and that people had to worship God there. The Church was very powerful back then, and had control over many countries.
They were nothing but control freaks, just like the Illuminati.
However, they were competitors to the Illuminati, they burned illuminated ones on the stake ... witches, warlocks etc.

The fact that other people learn stuff isn't their fear, as long as they can control what people believe. They want people to think as they think, and to believe as they believe. To them there is only one truth, just like with these organized religions and certain ideologies, well infact, you could say illuminism is a religion.
They want to create a world according to their "truth", and they, in their own minds think that this is the right thing to do, and that it will save humanity.

Freedom is their enemy.

Stick to your personal beliefs, not to one "truth" that somebody claims to know.

[edit on 1/1/2006 by SwearBear]

[edit on 1/1/2006 by SwearBear]

I met the nephew of the spanish priest that was up for the new pope and he started to talk about the illuminati... how thats his "family" and the nephew was a good man. He leads safe nest, he helped people... are all illuminati families bad? The true illuminati's were the rothchilds, and the reptilian royal bloodlines, ie GWB etc... were they not? There are always good and bad, the good stay in their same position while the bad try to get up in your face pretending to be good...like the news... haha like they REALLY care...and fast food, oh but they "care" about the kids they kill, and the state for giving us all the best darn tap water we could ever ask for, and dentists for giving us floride, and ELF towers (those supposed cell phone towers all over our land) and microwaves... honestly what are we supposed to do... I have freed my mind, I know their is no limit to that and knowledge is endless, but its EVERYWHERE> and those ELF towers can trace you where ever you go. They can see you in your homes, they are listening to your conversations and even worse your thoughts. For those of you who are obviously of wiser notions, how can we continue on with our fight? I am open to all responses and want to make sure that me and mine, are 100% up to date and are taking care of ourselves the way we should. thank you!

So Tupac Shakar studied up while in prison and formed his beliefs on the Illumanati. Here he goes on in difference to the Church, which the Illumanati opposed.

Other than Killumanati, I really don't see anything down playing Enlightenment. In fact, Tupac always told his fans to educate themselves on the things that really mattered.

Perhaps Don Killumanati can be taken another way?

I see a major emphesis on anti-religion here... although he also has songs about believing. Perhaps it's the time line of it all, and this view changed after his prison education.

Anything on him and his role against the Illumanait or other NWO's?

Huabamambo you light a fire in my soul, I love your honesty....any one heard of John Lear? Look up his name.... I have learned from someone he taught, and everything that you say H is so true its scary... they are dead... there is only that 10 % that are awake fully, and are open to receive and sending... get into telepathic messages, and remote viewing, there is a lot more than what you are talking about, explain more, shape shifters etc.... I had a visit from one of them, I saw him I saw it... the truth is far bigger than our minds can hold. KEEP TALKING HUABAMAMABO!

Since I am new, all I do is sit here and read everything that has been said in this chat, so if I dont have anything important to say thats it, I am just collecting my thoughts. About saying how I like how someone speaks, I do, I love when people feel strongly about this, and obviously most of you do. About Lear, I know his daughter... very good man... interesting but definately a jem. People should check out the mine he runs, you can see everything out in the middle of the desert, especially all their "crafts" they practice hoovering! About the grays and reptilians, I think we spend so much time debating about them and less time thinking about what you could DO ABOUT IT> I mean you can kill your TV and they will still get you with their ELF towers... look up "holy handgranades"....or try www.educateyourself.org - good sites. I love rense too, he has a lot of great information on Chemtrails... I am previously from NV and those skies just cant hide the poisons they are filtering into the air. They look completely man made, and where ever they are the people in that region get sick. There is no running from it because they are above you and under you. Jesus is supposed to be a Plaetian (spelling!) Obviously we need to understand that we are not alone in this world, ever... and there is an on going battle for good and evil... PICK A SIDE because there is about to be a war. Not only with "THEM" but on our own people. What is going on in Orleans is OUT OF CONTROL. First off who decided they are REFUGEES? Are they refugees because they are black? If that was Beverely hills, those people would have been warned MONTHS PRIOR that H.A.A.R.P. was going to manifest this horrible ordeal and kill them and to get out. Bush is the anti-christ and all his little followers are his demon drones, and we are his SLAVES.... why do you go to work, WHY DO YOU PAY TAXES? You dont have to... look up and read your constitution, you have so many more rights that are not being expressed or used. I think we should realize that WE ARE NOT THE ENEMY, we are the ones who are awake and do care about what is going on. Please read about the ELF towers and H.A.A.R.P- "angels dont play that tune". If we band together which is what they DONT WANT and is why they are trying to police us and any leader that would have stood up is DEAD. They dont want us to talk, they dont want us to band together because all of us out number them. REMEMBER THAT> So dont argue amongst yourselves, enlighten each other and inspire each other to greatness. We must stick together, because I or the person next to you could save your life.

If we go with the idea that the Illuminati does exist, there appears to be at least 2 interpretations of what they are, mainly good or evil. The Bavarian Illuminati took it's name from a Luciferian concept with "Lucifer" being the "Light Bearer" of knowledge and illuminating the adepts of the Illuminati with this knowledge. Some mystery schools make a discernment between "Lucifer" and "Satan" with the former being benevolent and the latter being malevolent. This is the fuzzy amoral edifice of Left Hand Path occultism where good and evil are interchangeable. In my opinion, this nullifies that concept that they are "good". The Bavarian Illuminati infiltrated Masonic Lodges and are credited with helping to bring about the French Revolution. This indicates to me that Masonry either has been co-opted by the Illuminati to this day or that Masonry was merely another vessel of the Illuminati to begin with. Supposedly, they were disbanded and destroyed by European governments who found out about their existence. In my mind "destroyed" or "disbanded" doesn't necessarily mean utterly, completely wiped out. As long as there were even 1 or 2 members who were willing rebuild in secret, this would mean their survival to present day (think Knights Templar). The founding year of the Illuminati, 1776, is quite historic for obvious reasons and according to some, not coincidental in the least. The Illuminati's symbol is the all-seeing eye in the pyramid, which is everywhere in Government and Military organizations. If the Illuminati are truly wiped out, there are others who seem to be willing to adopt their symbolism and further to this, perhaps their aims as well. The two plus centuries that have elapsed between their "destruction" and present day have been rife with Masonic and Illuminati-like activities to the degree that I think they still do exist. If you limit yourself to the last century in terms of history, their footprint is hard to make out. In the long view they appear to have been quite active and my interpretation is that they appear to be malevolent and have gone underground and transformed themselves into other organizations. They are intent on keeping knowledge secret that would benefit mankind (as they have alluded to in some of their own tracts), they only seem to want to help each other and they use the Hegelian dialectic to achieve a synthesis of slave and master forms of governance. They seem pretty evil to me.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by isisluna
enjoy your ignorance!

Who are you taking to? This is a conspiracy board, most on here are quite awake, IMHO you are preaching to the wrong crowd.

I love that you arnt super judgemental and opinionated you just speak the TRUTH

What TRUTHS are you referring too? Huabamambo titled this thread "The Illuminati’s time is over", yet still hasn’t given any examples. If asking for clarification is ignorant, than you have stumbled across the most ignorant board on the Internet.






[edit on 30/12/05 by ConspiracyNut23]

no offense ConspiracyNut23 but maybe I wasnt talking to you... obviously since you ARE the smartest person in this chat I would never EVER say that about you. ha! All you do is say that everyone is wrong, instead why dont you look up info and prove them RIGHT? We are all on the same team remember? I am not the enemy so please dont treat me as such. Instead why not teach me? Why not inspire me to maybe do a little research. When guiding the blind you dont yell at them the first time they walk into a wall, you help them up and walk them around it. remember that.

Originally posted by isisluna
ha! All you do is say that everyone is wrong, instead why don’t you look up info and prove them RIGHT?

Sorry, i didn't mean to offend. Huabamambo has claimed that the Illuminati is falling and I don't see that. He hasn't supported his claims yet you cheer him on. I didn't even say he was wrong, just that he should provide more information on a subject I'm interested in.

I am trying to help, that is why I provided you with the John Lear link. If I was trying to prove how smart I am, I would not to it in an anonymous way on an anonymous forum.

The Illumanatis Time Is Over.

Step one. Show me the Illumanati exist (I believe they once did and still may, but I don't stand concrete on this) and tell me which branch of Illumanati you mean by this reference (I believe in the Science Illumanati of the 1600's, founded by men such as Galileo, being forced underground by the Catholic Church. I state this in my own Illumanati thread with reference to Science and Masonry.)

Step two. Show me that they have existed past the 1700's, when European governments reported to wiping them out of existance.

Step three. Show me that another force, either more powerful or intelligent, is going to finally stamp them out.

Step four. Show me why another power should do so. If you buy into the Scientific Illumanati then they are not evil, merely misguided and bent on revenge. They are not against all religion, only the Church that forced them under. If they would give up on the conspiricy of that grudge then they would merely be a highly intelligent secret group instead of a secret group after world domination. (They need resources to bring down the Catholic Church, or they wouldn't even be interested in such areas as domination). Of course, this view changes if you see the Illumanati as something else.

Just trying to get back to the basics of this discussion. Play on!

we can not excuse steps 1 and 2 from the discussion. Their is a root. If not the Bavarian Branch of Illumanati lore, what branch is being discussed? In essence, WHICH ILLUMANATI?

I can realistically see the Bavarian branch being hell bent on stomping the Catholic Church for revenge using science. In a sadistic way, it makes sense. I could also see them actually being stamped out in the 1700's. I don't see them as being bad, per se, if they are still existant under the Bavarian branch. Simply misguided by a leader or two that were (justifibly) bent on revenge. Of course it takes alot of wealth to touch the Catholic Church, hence the 'world domination' take.

So, if these are not the Illumanati of this topic, I would like to be presented with the Illumanati that is going to be taken down. Remember, the original poster stated his very family has ties to this sect. He should be able, within reason, to at least paint a vauge picture of the group and it's interest. I'm not saying precise, just some sort of vague outline.

Every sect/group/society has a goal or creed or motto. Why is this Illumanati here, do they even use the Illumanati name, are they ancient or new. Things like this will shed light on the subject.

And if his family has Illumanati ties, how did he find out about this other, yet to be named, sect? What is their reason? Merely to stop the Illumanati for the good of man, or to stop them so THEY can take over the world?

I'm big on theory and have a very open mind. But a better picture than is being painted is required here.

Ha ha! I see the point now! Excellent point!

Yes we do need to know what version of the Illuminati the poster is referring too. Wow reminds me of “Politics and the English Language” by George Orwell. The term Illuminati, just like Communist, Democracy and Quality Service has become a useless label, to a point where it is difficult to use it, without first agreeing on its definition.

Originally posted by Huabamambo


As for me, again I have freed my ass and my mind. And I have been loving it ever since.


[edit on 25-12-2005 by Huabamambo]

[edit on 25-12-2005 by Huabamambo]

LOL! Whatever get's you off, jack.

I hope you can appreciate that we have all seen these clichés so many times, and that there have been so many different takes on them, so many assertions, that it becomes mind numbing after a while.

I absolutely agree that no one should assume what they're told is the truth - be it history, news, current events, medicine, etc. - is automatically true. And all of the things you mention are things I, and many others, have always found to be suspect.

But I hope you can appreciate that that doesn't mean we're any more likely to adhere to your particular take on it than anyone else's. I'm not going to accuse you of dishonesty. I don't know you, and frankly, given all the weirdness in the world and on this forum, anything is possible. Anything. So I will not say that I disbelieve what you have said. However, I don't believe it, either.

I hope you can understand that, and not take people's skepticism personally, if indeed you are being honest.

Anybody ever consider that Montauk project stuff where it is conjectured that the elite saw the future and are attempting to prevent something (or bring something forth)?