Why nobody likes America

Originally posted by 27jd
Of course not, I was just taking a stab at humor.

American humour....its a difficult concept.

Another reason nobody likes America, I don't think they get our sarcastic jokes and think we're being a-holes when most of the time we're messing around.

I guess you guys are just used to absurd, slapstick humor.

Actually we dont mind it, but you dont mess with the irn bru.

How will I ever know that the heck Irn-Bru tastes like? I'm kinda forced to take the word of someone else, unless I ever get the chance to travel, or you send me a can.

Hell I could send you a a crate, its only £1.19 for a 2 litre bottle.
(Thats 2 dollars btw..)

Well, if somebody offers me a drink and I ask "what's in this", and they say "don't worry about it", I'm gonna have a few reservations about drinking it.

Well they say whats mostly in it but there is a secret ingrediant, the reason coca cola havnt ripped them off yet.

I've seen it on TV when searching the channels to find extreme cage fighting matches to watch.

Ever seen it pitch side? Really good sport.

Maybe we're just so extreme, that when we run out of enemies to engage, our thirst for blood drives us to attack even our closest allies....on "accident", of course.

Hmm well I dunno, you dont hear of american units charging the enemy with bayonets when they run out of ammo now do you?

How am I a hypocrite? I never said Sunkist sucked.

You complain that britain has problems but America has them to.

The March Of The Empty Shoes

Originally posted by cantfoolme
majic-
that's just it America is THE world power, with that title comes scrutiny. when America fumbles the whole world jumps on it like stink on poo.

Hey, I know.

I'm just sayin' -- and I'm sorry if I come off as obnoxious about it. I really didn't mean to call everyone "suckers".

Rather, those who think they are so damn superior and so arrogant about it -- while calling us “arrogant”.

It's just that so much of what I see here on ATS is dedicated to perpetuating the "America is Evil" propaganda meme, and it just gets old after about the first thousand times (i.e., about ten minutes of reading).

So I'm just sayin' "Hey, if America is so bad, then show me what's better."

Surely there's a nation out there the U.S. could emulate and thereby become a better place.

If so, it should be easy enough to name it. Hey, maybe Canada. I love Canada.

So maybe Canada is the example for what a better nation is like.

My challenge is for people to name a nation that is superior to America to the extent that it can survive the kind of criticism that is routinely leveled at the U.S.

I'm not saying criticism of the U.S. is wrong, I'm just saying that maybe it should be reasonable.

So, what's better?

Come on, world, show us poor, benighted Americans the way!

Put up or shut up.

Mod Edit: Quoted Circumvention Of Censors.

[edit on 26/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]

oh yeah and you are dead on. there is no such country and never will be. although i think there are policies in place throughout the world that would benefit America, there is not a single country with a better foundation than ours. i understand what you are saying about the "finger pointers" and about the seemingly lack of patriotism on ATS. i am one of the members that has probably done enough America bashing but i always make it clear that i have yet to find a better alternative

Christmas Bash

Originally posted by cantfoolme
i am one of the members that has probably done enough America bashing but i always make it clear that i have yet to find a better alternative

Well, in all fairness, and speaking as an American at that, I'm willing to bet that my list of complaints about America is probably longer than anyone else's here.

I have a huge list of gripes.

But, and with apologies to Winston Churchill for mangling his great quote, America is the worst form of hegemon -- except for all the others.

Hey, if I had my way, the U.S. would go back to being a petty nuisance content to bully around and meddle only in the affairs of the Americas, and stay out of European, African and Asian affairs.

But well, times just aren't that simple anymore.

God knows, I agree with about 99% of the gripes I see here. I'm just trying to figure out who has a better solution.

So far, it's a pretty thin field. When you look at who's doing the griping, invariably they do so from the perch of their own grievous sins.

Hence my point.

Would Finland be a better example for the world? How about New Zealand?

The truth is that the situation in the world sucks.

But it could be worse.

Is what I'm saying.

However, the challenge still stands.

Come forth, would be America-beaters. Stand and be scrutinized!

The world awaits your leadership.

Originally posted by devilwasp
American humour....its a difficult concept.

Yeah, here the most pissed off and bitter comedian is the funniest.

Actually we dont mind it, but you dont mess with the irn bru.

We can't mess with Irn Bru, we can't mess with Guiness. Ya gotta give us something you aren't fiercely proud of to bat around.

Hell I could send you a a crate, its only £1.19 for a 2 litre bottle.
(Thats 2 dollars btw..)

Yeah, but shipping's a byotch I'm sure.

Well they say whats mostly in it but there is a secret ingrediant, the reason coca cola havnt ripped them off yet.

Ah, kind of like the secret ingredients in Kentucky Fried Chicken. Don't worry, I'm sure Coke has reverse engineering experts on it as we type. We'll call it US-Brew EXTREME!

Ever seen it pitch side? Really good sport.

Actually at one time I was thinking about playing believe it or not, a guy at my gym wanted me to play for some amateur league he was in. My schedule didn't permit at the time, it does now but I haven't seen him in awhile. If I do I'll probably check it out.

Hmm well I dunno, you dont hear of american units charging the enemy with bayonets when they run out of ammo now do you?

Nah, they do it all the time, even before they run out of ammo. The news just doesn't report it because they like to stab out the enemy's eyes with the bayonets first, and let's just face it, kids don't need to know that stuff. Totally extreme.

You complain that britain has problems but America has them to.

All humor aside, I never complained about GB. I cited that lame report that listed Scotland as the most violent place in the civilized world as an 'intended to be silly' reply to another poster's assertion that America loves violence. Again, my humor failed. People sometimes think statistics or studies allow them to generalize, as Majic pointed out, and that's what I was trying less effectively to do. Bottom line is, we all have problems. I just want to see others (not you) stop focusing on us, take a good look around the globe, and come to the realization we're by far not the only thing wrong with it.

Originally posted by 27jd
We can't mess with Irn Bru, we can't mess with Guiness. Ya gotta give us something you aren't fiercely proud of to bat around.

We let you have the french...

Yeah, but shipping's a byotch I'm sure.

Actually you'd be suprised.
In some cases its easier to buy things in america and get them sent here, pity those things are MADE here...

Ah, kind of like the secret ingredients in Kentucky Fried Chicken. Don't worry, I'm sure Coke has reverse engineering experts on it as we type. We'll call it US-Brew EXTREME!

Na, mr Connery will see to it that it remains off limits.

Actually at one time I was thinking about playing believe it or not, a guy at my gym wanted me to play for some amateur league he was in. My schedule didn't permit at the time, it does now but I haven't seen him in awhile. If I do I'll probably check it out.

Its a "gentlemans" sport....rough and dity.

Nah, they do it all the time, even before they run out of ammo. The news just doesn't report it because they like to stab out the enemy's eyes with the bayonets first, and let's just face it, kids don't need to know that stuff. Totally extreme.

Ah anyone can do it with bullets in the gun, but not everyone can do it with no bullets, a POS rifle and a rather scary looking west coaster shouting at you in some kind of northern slurr...

All humor aside, I never complained about GB. I cited that lame report that listed Scotland as the most violent place in the civilized world as an 'intended to be silly' reply to another poster's assertion that America loves violence. Again, my humor failed. People sometimes think statistics or studies allow them to generalize, as Majic pointed out, and that's what I was trying less effectively to do. Bottom line is, we all have problems. I just want to see others (not you) stop focusing on us, take a good look around the globe, and come to the realization we're by far not the only thing wrong with it.

I agree your not the only thing thats wrong and I am sorry I took it wrong but I am feircely proud of my country.
But...thats the problem we misinterpt, we generalise, we make mistakes and our goodwill is almost always mistaken for ill givings.

I wonder....what the effect would be if the US declared itself neutral?

I mean imagine it doing a sweeden, focusing 100% of its energies on itself.
No more US troops placed world wide, every troop home, every missile and plane at home.

Originally posted by devilwasp
We let you have the french...

Yeah, but they were all used up by the Monty Python crew.

French Soldier: "I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."

Sir Galahad: "Is there someone else up there we could talk to?"

French Soldier: "No, now go away before I taunt you a second time."

Good stuff.

In some cases its easier to buy things in america and get them sent here, pity those things are MADE here...

Yeah, I'm sure homeland security would empty the contents before it got to me. Besides, Irn Bru looks too much like Bird flu, it wouldn't make it to port.

Na, mr Connery will see to it that it remains off limits.

Even he has a price. American soft drink companies own like 80% of earth, and I think even a percentage of the moon.

Its a "gentlemans" sport....rough and dity.

So is female mud wrestling, which I'd prefer to watch. And referee if they'd let me.

Ah anyone can do it with bullets in the gun, but not everyone can do it with no bullets, a POS rifle and a rather scary looking west coaster shouting at you in some kind of northern slurr...

Sounds almost like a personal experience.

I agree your not the only thing thats wrong and I am sorry I took it wrong but I am feircely proud of my country.

I think most people all over the world are, and ironically that's one of the things many say they dislike about America. Perhaps if we could all evolve to be fiercely proud of our planet first, many problems could be solved.

But...thats the problem we misinterpt, we generalise, we make mistakes and our goodwill is almost always mistaken for ill givings.

Agreed.

I wonder....what the effect would be if the US declared itself neutral?

I mean imagine it doing a sweeden, focusing 100% of its energies on itself.
No more US troops placed world wide, every troop home, every missile and plane at home.

We'd probably get criticized to no end.

Originally posted by 27jd
Yeah, but they were all used up by the Monty Python crew.

Dont make me get the cow lol.

Yeah, I'm sure homeland security would empty the contents before it got to me. Besides, Irn Bru looks too much like Bird flu, it wouldn't make it to port.

Lol, that drink is threatening national security WASTE IT!

Even he has a price. American soft drink companies own like 80% of earth, and I think even a percentage of the moon.

This is THE james bond, he reports to 3 people; the queen, M and himself.
Money has no need for him.

So is female mud wrestling, which I'd prefer to watch. And referee if they'd let me.

Ofcourse, its on everynite at the local "gentlemans club".

Sounds almost like a personal experience.

Well, I did lead a squad on training in the cadets lol.

I think most people all over the world are, and ironically that's one of the things many say they dislike about America. Perhaps if we could all evolve to be fiercely proud of our planet first, many problems could be solved.

lol if only mate.
I feel really annoyed at some of my countrymen, they look up to you guys like gods and say "wow we should live there look its soo great" when infact WE could be JUST as great.
I am not getting at you guys but more the ignorant people here.

We'd probably get criticized to no end.

I know, but then the reply would be "You wanted it, now live with it!"

Originally posted by devilwasp
I feel really annoyed at some of my countrymen, they look up to you guys like gods and say "wow we should live there look its soo great" when infact WE could be JUST as great.
I am not getting at you guys but more the ignorant people here.

Well, they say the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm sure your country is a great place to live, as with pretty much any developed, civilized nation. I think it's silly for people in our countries to argue over who has it better, we all have it pretty good if you talk to somebody from a third world country. But on the flipside we're also all responsible for our share of pollution and over-consumption. There are pros and cons to everything I guess.

Oh yeah, and I guess since you were taking me seriously earlier, I should clarify that "if it ain't Scottish, it's CRAP!" comes from Saturday Night Live, it was a skit where Mike Myers (Austin Powers) played a surly Scottish shop owner, his shop was named All Things Scottish and "if it ain't Scottish, it's CRAP!" was his catch phrase/motto that he shouted at everybody throughout the skit.





[edit on 26-12-2005 by 27jd]

Lol sory mate, boxing day , tired, 2 hours sleep, little sister annoying and half a ton of other exscuse which mean squat for what I did.

Yeah and I agree we do have it better off and we are responsible for what we do....its a shame we fool ourselves into thinking we're not.

It just annoys me that my own people think that there country isnt "worth it" and want to move away yet will stay in the damm country , moan about it and "stand" behind the flag.
I mean wth?

IMHO you would really have to be quite uneducated to "Hate America". Me, i have meet 2 Americans and they where very nice people. But you cannot judge a social population because there president is a monkey.
Its really unfair to judge a country by %2 of its population (the government).

Originally posted by devilwasp
Lol sory mate, boxing day , tired, 2 hours sleep, little sister annoying and half a ton of other exscuse which mean squat for what I did.

Not a problem at all, if you haven't seen the show, you wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about.

It just annoys me that my own people think that there country isnt "worth it" and want to move away yet will stay in the damm country , moan about it and "stand" behind the flag.
I mean wth?

Same thing happens here, same exact thing.

Originally posted by helium3
IMHO you would really have to be quite uneducated to "Hate America". Me, i have meet 2 Americans and they where very nice people. But you cannot judge a social population because there president is a monkey.
Its really unfair to judge a country by %2 of its population (the government).

Well thank you, 98% of us really appreciate that.

The monkey won't be president forever.

I guess now I have to forgive you Australians for the Wiggles, my four year old son has every last one of their videos and they make me completely crazy.


[edit on 27-12-2005 by 27jd]

People like the glamours American high standard of living and the country, but everyone hates the American government and its policies even more.

i like america. I like it a lot. I'm free to eat KFC when i please and onot get shot...cuz i dont like getting shot at..its not very fun. Meh screw this im going to Iran...much better over there....stupid americans.

Originally posted by Majic
Disobedience: The Unforgivable Sin

Originally posted by masterp
America is not hated due to jealousy or because they are leaders. They are hated for their foreign policy:

Talk about proving my point! Every “sin” listed is an example of the U.S. not doing what other people want it to do.

Every sin listed (which no one in this thread dared to address one by one) is indeed a sin: supporting dictatorships, for example isn't a sin?

What people hate is the fact that the U.S. acts according to its interests -- or more accurately, the interests of its ruling power elite.

What people hate is USA not being just and moral.

The fact that every other nation in the world does exactly the same thing is irrelevant, because we're talking about the U.S. here, right?

as I have said, other countries can be blamed in a similar way for their acts. The world has not forgotten what Germany did, or what Great Britain did, or what France did. But if we were to speak for those countries, we would have said the same things.

The bottom line is simple enough to understand. The laments are all the same: The U.S. doesn't do want we want it to do!

I'll cry tomorrow.

You are refusing to see the truth.

Bring It On

But hey, let's not let it end there. Let's put it to the test and see if all this juvenile carping is justified.

Challenge accepted.

I challenge any member to hold up any nation as an example of virtue that the U.S. can't match.

That's easy enough: Germany, France, Scotland, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Greece, Switcherland, Austria, Japan, Australia, for example. There are many more.

Don't be surprised by the presence of Germany, Italy and Japan. After WWII, they haven't done anything wrong.

Let's subject any other nation in the world to the same scrutiny the U.S. tolerates, and see how well it does.

Go on. I dare you.

Heck, I double dog dare you.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Come on, national chauvinists, show us what you got. Right here, right now.

Name a country, and allow ATS to scrutinize it for “moral and national correctness.”

Come on. Are you chicken?

Bring it on. Let's see who's morally superior.

Put your best foot forward, and be prepared to eat it, because every country has dirt on it, even those nations who have basked in the Pax Americana and show their gratitude by bitching about America.

Come on, holier than thou anti-Americans.

Show us what's better.

Put up or shut up.

I dare you.

Fair Warning: You will be held to the same criteria America is held to. Good luck, suckers. :shk:

Yes, let's do that. Let's take post-war France, for example:

When it was the last time the French army was engaged in a war?

When it was the last time France helped a dictator?

When it was the last time France stole the national identity of one country and assigned it to another?

When it was the last time France refused to sign an international deal for the environment?

When it was the last time French secret services where involved in an international scandal?

I can go on and on and on...I do not accuse you or any other American, because it is human nature to take advantage of power. But, at the same time, I feel it is highly dangerous to say that USA is good, moral, just and the best thing since sliced bread.

Not admitting one's mistakes is a sign of immaturity. Responsible leaders are the ones that know when to say "my bad".

the reason the world hates america is because they (the government) cant mind thier own bussiness. america medles in the affairs of any country it has dealings with. even when it comes to minor policies, if they disagree, they will actively try to change the policy. the arrogance of the american government is their assumption that everyone must answer to them.

we can see that even when it comes to who rules a country. if america cant push the government around, then they promote regime change. who gave america, the forienger, the right to dictate who rules our country? would any of you like it if america's next president was determined by the whim of a foriegn country?

want a perfect example of this? look at iraq. america goes in to promote regime change to promote democracy and set up a secular government and what do the people do? they vote for a religious government. from whatg i gather, americans are stunned at this revelation. why would you be surprised if a culture makes a different choice than your own. isnt it the right of every people/country to decide thier own destiny? doesnt the declaration of independance say that in it?

if america can dictate policy and the world cannot, then that is hypocritical, and that is why noone likes america.

Not admitting one's mistakes is a sign of immaturity. Responsible leaders are the ones that know when to say "my bad".

i totally agree

Originally posted by Majic
Come on, holier than thou anti-Americans.

Show us what's better.

Put up or shut up.

I won't be taking you up on your challenge because I’m not really sure there is a ‘better’ country to live in at the moment... and in fact, for as long as I've been alive, the USA has been number one for me.

I'm sure in some ways, Canada is 'better' and some of the Scandinavian countries are 'better' in some ways, but overall, when everything is considered, in my opinion, the USA is still the best place to live. FOR NOW. And my concern is that if we stay on our current path, that will soon change.

However, the fact that I don’t want to move to a 'better' country does not mean that it’s ok to accept (and not complain about) the current path of the government of the USA.

I was born here, it’s my country, I have pride in my country and I feel a certain amount of responsibility for my country’s actions in the world. I have helped elect the leadership of my country and I’m on the board of directors of my country’s government. I am not satisfied with the manner is which this country is moving away from the ‘charter’ (the Constitution) and I'm not satisfied with the way in which we operate in the world.

And I’m not speaking of the USA in regards to comparing us to other countries. I’m comparing us to ourselves! To our origins, our own standards and values. It’s called accountability.

If I discover the guy down the street is a serial murder and has killed 17 people, I don’t automatically figure that killing 2 people isn’t so bad… That’s the danger of relativism.

If all the kids at my son’s school are doing meth every day, and I discover my son is doing coc aine and meth only on Sunday, I don’t say, “Well, that’s ok, son. You could be worse.” I don’t challenge the mothers at the PTA meeting to tell me whose son is doing less than coc aine and meth on Sunday. I am responsible for my son, not all the others. And I’d be doing him a disservice to commend him for being ‘better’ than the other kids.

I love the USA. I have some of the strongest feelings of honor, pride and patriotism for this country, and I will not make excuses for it nor compare it to other countries and claim it as ‘not so bad’. The USA is better than that and it deserves better than that. This has been a fantastic country and I see it taking a nosedive as far as the values it claims to hold dear. And I will not just stand by and say, “Well, others are still worse.” Or “We’re still better than others.” And be satisfied with that. Because even if that is true (which is questionable), it’s not going to be that way for long. To ignore the obvious fall that my country is taking is no favor to anyone, least of all its own citizens.

Ignorance Defied

Originally posted by masterp
That's easy enough: Germany, France, Scotland, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Greece, Switcherland, Austria, Japan, Australia, for example. There are many more.

Don't be surprised by the presence of Germany, Italy and Japan. After WWII, they haven't done anything wrong.

Ignoring history is just a form of ignorance.

If you are willing to ignore their history, why not ours?

The answer is simple enough, and my point stands -- reinforced, in fact.

Next.

Vive La France

Lest my previous response seem unduly brief, let's go into greater detail.

But first, let's get something straight: as I clearly indicated above, I'm not saying America is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I'm saying people complain about America because we don't do what they tell us to do.

This manifests itself in all sorts of juvenile insults directed at my country, and now and then I respond to this swelling tide of shameless ignorance by challenging it, as I am doing here.

Any insinuations that I think America is free of sins and blemishes simply because I take offense to ignorant nation-bashing are either founded in misunderstanding or are deliberate lies.

So let's kindly dispense with such nonsense.

Also, as I also pointed out, what some consider a “sin” is nothing more than the “sin” of disobedience. Some people seem to have a problem with that, and my advice remains the same: deal with it.

The foundation of America-bashing, like all nation-bashing, is nationalistic bigotry. Nothing more, nothing less.

Every now and then I feel inspired to point that out.

The French Connection

My challenge is for those who wish to do so to hold up any nation as an example of virtue that the U.S. can't match.

masterp threw out a list of countries which each have a long list of sins to their names, both greater and lesser than those of the U.S., but let's not cater to such hand-waving, because it's utterly meaningless.

masterp specifically offered up France as an example of virtue that the U.S. can't match -- then qualified this choice by specifying post-WWII France.

How convenient.

I rejected those terms -- both with regard to the myopic timeframe and specious, selective and rhetorically-charged criteria chosen -- but let's have some fun with this anyway.

Let's go with post-Vichy France and see how spotless its history has been since the U.S. and its allies liberated it from the Nazis -- and the Vichy French.

I invite my fellow members to consider masterp's offering of France as a bastion of virtue, and share whatever answers they may wish to proffer in response to the questions posed, because mine are hardly exhaustive.

French Pacifism

Originally posted by masterp
Yes, let's do that. Let's take post-war France, for example:

When it was the last time the French army was engaged in a war?

Choose one. How about Algeria? How about Vietnam?

Long before the U.S. ever sent troops, the French were killing Vietnamese. Note, however, who their buddies were even back then: the U.S.

Dealing with the devil, were they? Tsk, tsk. :shk:

More recently, French troops have seen combat in the Ivory Coast and Rwanda, but those could be dismissed as “peacekeeping missions” or “police actions” ala the U.S. war in Vietnam, I suppose.

Then again, the U.S. occupation of Iraq right now is a “peacekeeping mission”, so what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

France also sent troops to Afghanistan, and from what I understand, they have represented their nation honorably.

More fun facts about French military deployments.

Note the partnerships with the Evil U.S.

French Democracy

Originally posted by masterp
When it was the last time France helped a dictator?

If we count colonial governors installed by France, there's a plethora to choose from.

But that's not all, and they're still doing it today.

French Respect For Sovereignty

Originally posted by masterp
When it was the last time France stole the national identity of one country and assigned it to another?

See French colonial empires.

French Altruism

Originally posted by masterp
When it was the last time France refused to sign an international deal for the environment?

When was the last time France agreed to pay the lion's share for an international deal for the environment? How many of these “green” treaties are anything more than a trade treaty in disguise? It always boils down to money.

If France ever accepts the kind of “environmental” deals being offered to the U.S., buy stock in flying pigs.

Virtue has nothing to do with it.

French Espionage

Originally posted by masterp
When it was the last time French secret services where involved in an international scandal?

This was hardly the last time, but it's famous: Rainbow Warrior. Sunk because it interfered with the detonation of nuclear weapons, no less.

What a bunch of boy scouts.

You may not hear about it, but French intelligence agencies are always into some bit of skulduggery or another not only all over the world but right here in the U.S. -- just like our guys, and everyone else's.

Here's what I mean, courtesy of Google: french secret service scandal.

I'm seeing about 1.8 million hits for that. There's a scandal or two in there somewhere.

For some reason, however, the people who own the major media conglomerates want us to hear about U.S. intelligence operations more than what other people are up to.

That doesn't mean squat. Everybody still spies on everyone else, and everyone has dirt on their hands.

French Sacrilege

But the most unforgivable sin France could possibly commit is this: France is a strong ally of the United States.

That's right, France is on our side, and despite our highly-publicized quarrels and squabbles, is still a close friend of the U.S.

For America-haters, this is the unkindest cut of all.

Brothers, Sisters, Sinners All

The bottom line is that no nation is a bastion of virtue, all nations do bad things, and all of them act in their own self-interests.

The point is that singling out one country for doing the same thing all countries do is bigotry, and founded in ignorance, not righteousness.

Every nation is a glass house, hence the inadvisability of throwing stones.

The Wisdom Of Youth

Originally posted by masterp
Not admitting one's mistakes is a sign of immaturity. Responsible leaders are the ones that know when to say "my bad".

The topic is “Why nobody likes America”. That's what I'm addressing.

Although immaturity seems to invariably come part and parcel with this topic.

As for who admits mistakes or when, that's a whole different can of worms. If the insinuation is that the U.S. never admits mistakes, that's demonstrably false.

As for leadership, when you find a truly responsible leader of any country, be sure to let me know, because they aren't just scarce in my country.

I'm arguing against nationalist bigotry which indiscriminately targets me, my family and many of my friends.

Why the opposition to that?







P.S. By the way, I'm one of those silly Americans who loves France. In my opinion, the reason we bicker so much is that we're so much alike. And I'm still grateful for their assistance with our little snit with the British a couple centuries back. And I love Britain, too. Go figure.



[edit on 12/27/2005 by Majic]

You have voted Majic for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

It doesn't get any clearer then that, folks. If you want to "bash" the US for it's actions, then you must also bash every other nation for theirs.