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Super Massive Black Hole with possible Dark Matter Galaxy

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posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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The detection of a super-massive black hole without a massive 'host' galaxy is the surprising result from a large Hubble and VLT study of quasars.

This is the first convincing discovery of such an object. One intriguing explanation is that the host galaxy may be made almost exclusively of 'dark matter'.

A team of European astronomers has used two of the most powerful astronomical facilities available, the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope and the ESO Very Large Telescope (VLT) at Cerro Paranal, to discover a bright quasar without a massive host galaxy....

....The team conducted a detailed study of 20 relatively nearby quasars. For 19 of them, they found, as expected, that these super-massive black holes are surrounded by a host galaxy. But when they studied the bright quasar HE0450-2958, located some 5000 million light-years away, they could not find evidence for a host galaxy.

The astronomers suggest that this may indicate a rare case of a collision between a seemingly normal spiral galaxy and an 'exotic' object harbouring a very massive black hole.

With masses that are hundreds of millions times bigger than the Sun, super-massive black holes are commonly found in the centres of the most massive galaxies, including our own Milky Way. These black holes sometimes dramatically manifest themselves by devouring matter that they gravitationally swallow from their surroundings.

www.universetoday.com...


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.




Well, the universe just keeps on getting stranger and stranger.

[edit on 24-12-2005 by mad scientist]




posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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That a super-massive black hole does not have a host galaxy is very interesting indeed.

That the object may be mostly made of dark matter is just as interesting. Because on the same date the article was posted, another was posted saying that Hubble can reveal dark-matter details.

So, if that theory is correct, they should be able to determine if quasar HE0450-2958 really is mostly dark matter using Hubble data.

Hubble reveals dark-matter details

I think one of the strangest things is that dark matter particles do not collide, unlike ordinary matter particles, they simply pass through each other.


Weird & wonderful Universe, eh?



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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That is crazy. It shows just how little we know. I love astronomy for just that reason. The more we find out the more questions and things to discover there are.



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 08:26 AM
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i LOVE the possbility of dark matter

(in fact since 80% of the universes mass cant be seen (at least in theroy) then some form of dark matter must exisit

i might even do my P.h.D on the matter



posted on Dec, 26 2005 @ 11:23 PM
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A few articles on Dark Matter Galaxies.


The team, led by Cardiff University, UK, claims it is the first such object to be detected.

A dark galaxy is an area in the Universe containing a large amount of mass that rotates like a galaxy, but contains no stars.

It was found 50 million light-years away using radio telescopes in England and Puerto Rico.

Very little is known about "dark matter", even though there is much more of it in the cosmos than "normal", or baryonic, matter, which constitutes the visible material from which stars and planets are built.



news.bbc.co.uk...



Using the powerful trick of gravitational lensing, a European and American team of astronomers have constructed an extensive ‘mass map’ of one of the most massive structures in our Universe. They believe that it will lead to a better understanding of how such systems assembled and the key role of dark matter.
Clusters of galaxies are the largest stable systems in the Universe. They are like laboratories for studying the relationship between the distributions of dark and visible matter. In 1937, Fritz Zwicky realised that the visible component of a cluster (the thousands of millions of stars in each of the thousands of galaxies) represents only a tiny fraction of the total mass. About 80-85% of the matter is invisible, the so-called 'dark matter'. Although astronomers have known about the presence of dark matter for many decades, finding a technique to view its distribution is a much more recent development.



www.spacetelescope.org...



Astronomers capture a dwarf galaxy being torn apart in the dark matter halo of a massive galaxy

For the first time, astronomers have found direct evidence of a phenomenon long thought to play an important role in the formation of giant galaxies: the ongoing disruption of a small galaxy as it orbits within the dark matter halo of a much larger galaxy. Images from the Hubble Space Telescope, confirmed by detailed observations at the W. M. Keck Observatory in Hawaii, show a dwarf satellite galaxy in the process of being torn apart by gravitational forces due to the larger spiral galaxy and its halo of dark matter.

"Although long predicted, direct evidence for plumes of stars being ripped from a dwarf galaxy as it is swallowed up by a giant galaxy has remained elusive. This discovery provides the best evidence to date," said Duncan Forbes, an astronomer at Swinburne University of Technology in Australia.



www.spaceref.com...



Strong gravitational lensing happens when there is so much mass contrast in the lens that the light rays from a distant source form multiple images. This was first seen in a quasar lensed by a galaxy in 1979. More commonly, the huge dark matter concentrations in clusters of galaxies create typical bending angles of 30 arcseconds, and multiple highly distorted images of a fortuitously aligned background source galaxy.

A site with some nice computer graphics and animations explaining Dark Matter and Dark Energy

www.lsst.org...
www.lsst.org...


[edit on 27-12-2005 by mad scientist]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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I think this is a pretty cool picture of what's suppose to be the first glimpse of dark matter distribution.
external image

Here's a really neat link to the subject that's being discussed.

But with dark matter having never been observed in the laboratory leaves me with the thought that this "dark matter" may really be cosmic strings.

The universe seems to be getting weirder and weirder with more powerful telescopes being deployed all the time. But that's OK. I can handle it.


[edited image size -nygdan]

[edit on 29-12-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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very interesting.. good find

on another note i can't help but laugh at the name of the one telescope... "Very Large Telescope"


What they couldn't think of anything better to call it?



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 11:50 AM
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haha that made me snicker too. Did they run out of famous astronomers to name it after?



posted on Dec, 28 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by noslenwerd

on another note i can't help but laugh at the name of the one telescope... "Very Large Telescope"


What they couldn't think of anything better to call it?


Yeah, like: Long Optical Seeing Thingie


Great thread. I love stuff like this. A combination of hard science with a philosophical quality, if you ponder it enough.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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This is the first convincing discovery of such an object. One intriguing explanation is that the host galaxy may be made almost exclusively of 'dark matter'.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

How can there be a super massive black hole without regular matter to have fed it? I mean, normally I'd think that these black holes form from the concretion of regular matter, just on very large scales over a very long period of time. But this is a galaxy made up mostly of dark matter? Does that mean that its a black hole made out of dark matter? Or does it mean that the regular matter in the galaxy has been entirely consumed by its central black hole? Or is that not possible, at least not without also consuming the dark matter too?



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 01:39 PM
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Dark matter or dark energy

Feel free to check out the rest of his techpapers ( and for that matter the entire site) as i really think he solved the dark energy question if mostly by accident.

Stellar



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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StellarX, I don't think you can link directly to that paper. It's actually a word doc that you have to open.

Try this-
www.cheniere.org... [Tom Bearden, for those that didn't know]

Then scroll down to Dark Matter or Dark Energy

It's a little more than half way down the list.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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Great stuff. Thanks.


And thanks for the Tom Beard links.


Some years ago I visualized infinity and astro-cycles as several Yin Yang symbols, nested one inside the other. The concept involves cycles that progress/expand from light to dark to light - and then contract and cycle back from dark to light to dark. Or the other way around.
FYI - the Chinese refer to the nested symbols as "Wu Wei" if I recall correctly.

...The more I hear about black holes and dark matter, the more I think this illustration just might hold up. Will see if I can find time to draw it. Works best if the circles all have gears to indicate a turning mechanism - ie: |_|-|_|-|_| .



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright
StellarX, I don't think you can link directly to that paper. It's actually a word doc that you have to open.

Try this-
www.cheniere.org... [Tom Bearden, for those that didn't know]

Then scroll down to Dark Matter or Dark Energy

It's a little more than half way down the list.


As long as you got there and read it it's all good. Thanks for correction and for giving him credit when i somehow forgot.


Stellar



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