It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by defcon5
Sounds like you should move…
Just kidding ....
Originally posted by defcon5
the Church or Latter Day Saints is not really what I would consider a
Protestant Church to begin with, an if you look it up in most places it is
listed as a Cult.
"There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved." (Pope Innocent II, Fourth Lateran Council)
Originally posted by defcon5
which Luther also fixed.
Yeah the guy was definitely a tremendous idiot ....
Originally posted by FlyersFan
They HATED everyone who didn't
worship exactly like them. IF I come across hard, it's from 10
years of them lobbing bombs and sticking knives .. most of the
time on our own front door step and me having to fight back
with FACTS. The idiots came up with garbage such as 'Catholics
believe Mary had sex with the Holy Spirit' and then in the next
sentence they say 'Catholics believe Mary was ever-virgin'.
FRIGHTENING BUNCH!
Originally posted by FlyersFan
You said you are Lutheran. Your Synoid says ya'll are supposed
to get along with other Christians. This is great. I applaud this.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Yep ... old Catholic teaching said if you are outside the Catholic faith you
are going to hell. I don't think it says that now. I'll have to break out
the Catechism and recheck. I believe that has been updated to read
differently.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
You say fixed. I say destroyed. Luther's contemporaries said
he had an awful way with Greek translation. We could go back
and forth with this all day ...
Martin Luther
His contributions to Western civilization went beyond the life of the Christian Church. His translations of the Bible helped to develop a standard version of the German language and added several principles to the art of translation.
Luthers Open Letter on Translating
First of all if I, Dr. Luther, had expected that all the papists together were capable of translating even one chapter of Scripture correctly and well into German, I would have gathered up enough humility to ask for their aid and assistance in translating the New Testament into German. However, because I knew (and still see with my own eyes) that not one of them knows how to translate or speak German, I spared them and myself the trouble. It is evident, however, that they are learning to speak and write German from my German translation, and so they are stealing my language from me, a language they had little knowledge of before this. Yet they do not thank me for this, but instead they use it against me. However, I readily grant them this, for it tickles me to know that I have taught my ungrateful pupils, even my enemies, how to speak.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
some of which I posted previously - I say
that his version is no better than any other, and perhaps
even worse considering what he changed - on purpose.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as O'Hare being bias ... he's accurate. If he is bias,
it's from reading the accurate information and making a
decision about it.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Luther was a quack. That's my opinion. He couldn't hack the
priesthood. He never should have been there. He had 'issues' of
a sexual nature. He hated Moses and the 10 commandments
because he couldn't live up to them ... so he tried to destroy them.
Later in the 'reformation' process he heard voices which he attributed
to the devil. He was either possessed or had mental health issues...
or both.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as Bible translations into German ... there were plenty before
Luther. You say they were all in error? Luthers was definately
in error. You say he fixed them. I say he further destroyed them.
Neither of us will change our minds on this.
Originally posted by defcon5
I have never heard of anything like this ..
However, because I knew (and still see with my
own eyes) that not one of them knows how to translate or
speak German
I guarantee that he did not purposely rewrite the Bible to
fit his new religion, because it was never his intention to start
a new religion, it was rather to reform the Catholic Church.
He started out as a Catholic monk you know.
You should look up a list of people that have had this disorder,
Luther did not hate the ten commandments
Did the common man have access to the bible before
Luther? NO Did the common man own a bible after
Luther? YES
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Try living in Alabama (or GA, MS, etc.). It's everywhere.
Take a car ride .. go into the
deep south ... and attend some services and/or Wednesday
night gatherings. You will be in for a shock.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as wanting to reform the Catholic Church ...
that's rather arrogant of him to think he's the only smart one,
smarter than all the others who were better educated than
him and better understood the faith. If he truly wanted to
'reform the Catholic Church' he wouldn't have gotten himself
kicked out of it. Others who came before
him managed to reform problems and stay in the church. His
ego didn't allow that.
Martin Luther
On October 31, 1517, according to traditional accounts, Luther's 95 Theses were nailed to the door of the Castle Church as an open invitation to debate them[6]. The Theses condemned greed and worldliness in the Church as an abuse and asked for a theological disputation on what indulgences could grant. Luther did not challenge the authority of the pope to grant indulgences in these theses.
Desiring to remain on friendly terms with Luther, the pope made a final attempt to reach a peaceful resolution of the conflict with him. A conference with the papal chamberlain Karl von Miltitz at Altenburg in January 1519 led Luther to agree to remain silent as long as his opponents would, to write a humble letter to the pope, and to compose a treatise demonstrating his reverence for the Catholic Church. The letter was written but never sent, since it contained no retraction.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sure. A lousy one at that. And his wife was an ex-nun.
Two sour grapes who never should have been in religious
life to begin with.
Martin Luther
At the age of seventeen in 1501, Luther entered the University of Erfurt. The young student received a Bachelor's degree in 1502 and a Master's degree in 1505. According to his father's wishes, he enrolled in the law school of that university.
Young Brother Martin Luther fully dedicated himself to monastic life, the effort to do good works to please God and to serve others through prayer for their souls. He devoted himself to fasts, flagellations, long hours in prayer and pilgrimage and constant confession. The more he tried to do for God, it seemed, the more aware he became of his sinfulness.
Johann von Staupitz[2], Luther's superior, concluded the young man needed more work to distract him from excessive rumination. He ordered the monk to pursue an academic career. In 1507 Luther was ordained to the priesthood. In 1508 he began teaching theology at the University of Wittenberg. Luther received his Bachelor's degree in Biblical Studies on March 9, 1508, and a Bachelor's degree in the Sentences by Peter Lombard (the main textbook of theology in the Middle Ages), in 1509[3]. On October 19, 1512, Martin Luther received the degree Doctor of Theology and on October 21, 1512, he was "received into the senate of the theological faculty" and called to the position of Doctor in Biblia[4].
Martin Luther
Luther took part in an Augustinian convention at Heidelberg, where he presented theses on the slavery of man to sin and on divine grace. In the course of the controversy on indulgences, the question arose of the absolute power and authority of the pope, since the doctrine of the "Treasury of the Church," the "Treasury of Merits," which undergirded the doctrine and practice of indulgences, was based on the Bull Unigenitus (1343) of Pope Clement VI. Because of his opposition to that doctrine, Luther was branded a heretic, and the pope, who had determined to suppress his views, summoned him to Rome.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
When someone says 'to the devil with Moses' and when someone says
'go and sin well' ... they hate the ten commandments or at the very
least don't understand that when Christ says to try to live a
holy life, that DOES NOT include adultry which Luther advocates
when he says 'if the wife is unwilling, take the maid'.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
The bible was available for all who could read.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Most couldn't read.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Those who went to the
universities learned to read and could read the bible anytime they
wanted.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
It was available in both Latin and German.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Luther didn't
give the bible to the common man. It was available for any
'common man' who learned to read. This is a matter of education,
not the church withholding knowledge.
Originally posted by defcon5
I am in the deep south, farther south then you even. Like Florida
This is getting old…
we should start discussing how the unbiblical doctrines of
confessional and celibacy in the priesthood is the source of the
Catholic Priests raping every child they can get their hands on?
Now if you want to wallow in ignorance its your
right to do that, but know that you are wrong.
in Egypt, the Mother and the Child were worshipped under the names of Isis and Osiris.
I have never heard of anything like this, beyond what some of the Fundamentalist groups did to the Abortion Clinics.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
I have listed sources other than Catholic, but you don't
like them and call them biased.
Kinda shows exactly how much respect Luther had for the Word of God.
None. Which is rather evident considering what he thought of the 10
commandments and especially the commandment about adultery. His
rather famous (unless you are Lutheran, then you aren’t taught this)
saying in regards to sex – his advice to the married man – ‘if the wife
is unwilling, then take the maid’. Gotta’ have that sex, and if the one
you are married to won’t, or can’t, have sex, then you are
free to commit adultery and rape. (Sicko.) Of course, considering
that he is also known for telling his fellow reformers “to the devil with
Moses” and he said the same about the Ten Commandments.
Other quotes about the Word of God from Luther – (quoted from ‘The Facts about Luther’ –
ISBN 0-89555-322-8 – author Patrick O’Hare)
Bucer's opinions were decidedly Zwinglian, but he was anxious to maintain church unity with the Lutheran party, and constantly endeavoured, especially after Zwingli's death, to formulate a statement of belief that would unite Lutheran, south German and Swiss reformers
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Let me educate you .... being celebate doesn't cause a person
to become gay, and it doesn't cause a person to act out with
pedophilia. It doesn't work that way. Confessing sins doesn't
cause someone to fondle children. You need to open a good
psychology book and learn exactly what pedophilia is.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
1Ti 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
Catholic Church denies sex abuse cover up claims
he Roman Catholic Church has strongly denied that a Latin document sent to all bishops 40 years ago imposed a secret code for dealing with sexual abuse by priests that stopped victims seeking redress outside the Church. According to the document, priests who spoke out were to be threatened with excommunication.
The Vatican document from 1962, carrying the seal of Pope John XXIII, was discovered by a German priest with close links to the Vatican and leaked to a lawyer in Texas, Daniel Shea, who acts for victims of sexual abuse by priests.
The document is entitled "Instructions on proceeding in case of solicitation". In Vatican jargon, "solicitation" means an attempt by a priest during confession to procure sexual favours from the person who is confessing.