hell cannot exist

OK let me say it again.... (I might as well save it I think this is the 5th time Ive said this on ATS/ ID)

Hell is a state of being. Everything in the univers and eveything period exists because GOd so willed it out of love. IT is also through his love for it that it continues to exist. IF he so willed it something could cease to exist. Just as the human body needs food to continue to stay alive our sould need Gods love to stay healthy. YOur sould cannot die and there for will only lay in torment from the love of God. that is hell.

There is SOOOO MUCHH more detail and SOOO MUCH more theology I could monolouge on about this. but thats the basic. I dont see the point in monolouging eitehr I ll just have to do it, again... and again.... and again... and each time it will just be passed by and no one will realize it.

BTW thats Catholic theology not "Mizar thinks this"


Good day sir.

I agree Mizar he is the one that makes it all worth while

So there is no hell but GOD is a "HE" ! mmm ! Met this God have you ? Did not "he" make us in his own image , (clone) ! Are we not our own gods(DNA) ? Life is 50/50,good-evil,live,die..There is no light without darkness,we are what we are ! But there is so much more ! Legion.

when you get in front of him/her/it you can argue the point then

I did !!! 1996, 3 day coma ! interesting !Did'nt see anyone else there !!!

my experience involved entering a tall steple shaped building with very high arched doors and rows of people, lots of people in fact, someone read out my name together with my birthdate and listed the stupid things I have done in life to that date.

Now I have told people about this and they look at me like Im nutts, however from being bed riden to feeling brand new in a matter of 5mins without meds makes me believe.

I happy to try and make it right and believe in what the book says, if there is a hell Im happy to wave as I pass through

exactly how many members of your church had fillings?? Sounds like quiet a few.

Originally posted by Legion 2012
So there is no hell but GOD is a "HE" ! mmm ! Met this God have you ? Did not "he" make us in his own image , (clone) ! Are we not our own gods(DNA) ? Life is 50/50,good-evil,live,die..There is no light without darkness,we are what we are ! But there is so much more ! Legion.

To give God a sex is not to do what God is justice, God is a spirit and a spirit has no parts and no definable shape so it is impossible to refer to God as He or She we just say God. However throughout the ages , most noteably ancient times, men were dominant in culture and God became referd to as a Father/ he.

Now if you want to go nitpicking and go "Well what about the sign of the cross?" SIgn of the cross is about the trinity and if you look at the actions approprated to each person of the trinity they are all part of the one devine nature. There are not 3 gods. There is ONE God and One devine nature. The 3 parts of the trinity all share the nature to make One God, (Think of it like a ntwork based off the same mainframe. The computer cna have 3 different locations but its the same computer feeding from the mainframe. (I hope thats a good way to describe it...)) The Father is approprated the acts of Creation so if you like you could say "In the name of the Creator, the Son , and the Holy Spirit/ Ghost"

Now onto your next point. Being made in the immage and likeness of God. (As I have said this numerous times on ATS also) As I have already pointed out God is a spirit and cannot have a definable shape so there fore How can one be made in God's immage and likeness? Whene created we were given a Soul an imortal soul. We are created in Gods immage and likenses through that. Its not a physical likenss. Being made in the immage and likeness of God simply means that Like him we have an importal spirit. (unlike anyother creature on earth) And with this spirit we are made in Gods immage and likeness so that we may have FREE WILL to do waht we please and to have the ability of Reason or Intelect. God has the supreeme ability of knowldge and reason and has free will. By God giving us these gifts we are created in his immage.

We were also created with the Beatific vision (What you need to see God) and intregrity (The ablility to know God at all times and be with God on the earthly plane) However the fall of man and the leading of sin took these away. SIn is what breakes the relationship with you and God and thoes 2 Graces are the supreeme relationship with God. When we first sined ( I am talking about the fall of man not adam and eve so do not ASSUME thats what I am speaking of) we broke that perfect relationship with God and we lost thoes graces. We need them to dwell with GOd in heaven and we had to be forgiven some how. So God could either write us off or we could have a perfect human sacrifice for our sins. And that was Christ. now back to talking about the trinity... Christ is approprated the Son and like we say the Father is the creator Christ is the reedemmer.

Now how does all of this tie into hell?
OH it does
Because when you die you are granted the perfect abbility of reason. Your spirit comes to know true sanity (Sanity = a correct view of the world) and in your sanity you know that God created you out of love and that through his love you are held into existance. YOu know that to deny God will only harm you and that there is no reason to. You know Gods love is perfect and that GOd loves you always. So now we have this perfect knowldge of God. So then we have to make a decision Except or not except? We still have our free will and intlect even in death. We are now ready to make the most informed decision ever. We know everything about the situation. We know everything about eh concequences. We know that if we except God we will be in eternal happiness and that if we deny God our soul will lay in torment away from his love. SO now the whole idea of hell comes into play. The true source of sin ultimately stems from selfishness and pride. If one coems to death and knows everything I have stated above (Which they will because it is so revealed to them) and they are so full of pride for themselves that even though they know God is the supreeme they deny God anyway because they are so full of them selves. And that my freind results in damniation.

Now you know that means suffereing because you are left away from Gods love but you chose to out of your own pride. God dint dam you you choes with your free will and you reasoned it.

Now lets look at hell. SO hell is a place where Angles have decided to deny God fully for themselves and any soul that has done so also. So think about that. Its a palce were everyone is so full of pride they will not except ultimate truth. It iis an endless battle for power because every spirit is so full of itself. THere is constant "fighting" ( im not sure how spirits would fight) because in each spirit they feel they are the best and are in search for power. Every spirit for them selves and eternal stuggle for power/ COnstant fighting and worst of all your always in a supreem tourture because you are not in Gods love. And your soul needs Gods love to stay healthy but it cannot die. So think of eternally being at teh brink of death but not being able to die. And on top of that think of everyone struggling and fighting no freinds no allies everyone is out for number one me.


And there you go. That is a theology lesson for you. You have no Idea how many points i just hit on......


Welcome to ATS Legin 2012 time to step it up a notch.

(The Gwa has returned!)

[edit on 26-12-2005 by Mizar]

IMO Hell does exist, it is all around us, the fiery place is just a creation to symbolise the dark side of man. Everyday we wake up and go to work and come home knackered knowing that someone somewhere is rich and doesn't have to worry about working ever again - that is hell. We will finally escape from hell when we die, that does not mean we go to a place in the clouds, we do go to heaven but heaven is not what we think it to be, heaven is death, heaven is nothing, heaven is final peace from hell. Man then created gods out of ignorance and fear, these gods are concepts of the emotions we feel, when we feel hate or pain we attribute it to the devil, when we feel love we attribute it to the god of heaven, it is easier for us to interpret that way. But that is just my opinion and i don't mean to offend anyone on here.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by ReturnOfTheOutlaw]

Actually, this is an interesting topic.
Why isn't it possible that your "soul" can be in either heaven or hell. I'm not talking about guys in red pajamas poking you with pitch forks, but some sort of an unrest, weary state. Or perhaps even not have the ability to "reincarnate". If life is energy, and energy can neither be created or destroyed, then the energy has to be converted. Even if it is nothing more than being fertilizer for a blade of grass, who knows?

Anybody who doesn't think hell exists should come to my home when my wife is on the warpath.......

Originally posted by iconoclaust
Hell by the biblical defination is a life on earth seperated from god. Weather one chooses to live in a heaven on earth it is presented to you, But if one does not accept this there is a life time of hell on earth in wich one is lost without him but still always searching for him.As all of us on earth seek the same thing, we can accept devine power or now, is up to the individual

I am a Christian and I say that hell does not exist as a physical plain in the way that some people like to portray it. We have an immortal God, we have an immortal soul, but we are only on earth for a very short time when compared to eternity. I cannot accept that the sins I commit in my short lifespan of 70 or 80 yrs on this earth will condem me to hell for eternity. When compared to eternity, our lifespan is so miniscule that it doesn't register. Nothing that I could possibly do while here, justifies being condemed to hell for all eternity. The punishment by far is blown way out of porportion to the sin commited, no matter what the sin is. If I destroyed every single living creature on this earth and had to serve a 1000 year sentence for each victim, one at a time, it still wouldn't make a ripple to an eternity in hell. Even as some claim that your soul will be removed from God's love for all eternity because of something I do during my pathetic life is just too comprehensible to grasp. I can see a period of punishment or banishment, but all eternity? I am a father of three sons, there is nothing that those boys could possibly do that would cause me to punish them for the rest of thier lives much less eternity. Timeout or some kind of related punishment sure, but stop loving them or cast them from my life for eternity? Never, so would God do any less? No God I worship would do such a thing!

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." - Jesus, Matthew 5:29

"...But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." - Jesus, Matthew 5:22

What is hell?

"He will cut him into pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Jesus, Matthew 24:51

"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell where, 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quinched.'" - Jesus, Mark 9:47

Grizzly. There's a whole lot more, but that's a good start to get into the New Testament. Want to receive the free gift of eternal life? Send U2U for details.


[edit on 28-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
Want to receive the free gift of eternal life? Send U2U for details.
[edit on 28-12-2005 by saint4God]

I was Christianed as an infant in a Presbyterian Church, I received Believers Babtisim as an Independent Babtist when I was 25 and now I am married to a Catholic and thinking about switching to Catholicism. I have pretty much run the gambit. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour but I cannot get my mind around the concept of eternal punishment for something I did or will do in this short life. Catholics and some other Christians believe in purgatory as a place where souls go that are not quite ready to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I have loved ones that have died by their own hands who according to most are condemmed to hell. If this is the case and I make it to heaven then I will stand before my God and ask him to trade my soul for theirs. If he refuses then I will ask him to please let me go where they are because all this time I was worshiping a loving and forgiving God and I now see Heaven is not the place that I wish to be! I say this in all truthfullness. Of course that depends on whether or not I am offered 72 virgins............. what if it's 72 clones of my exwife...........man now that would be hell!

[edit on 28-12-2005 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

[edit on 28-12-2005 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

[edit on 28-12-2005 by WHOFLUNGGUM]

My posting was to the general audience, apologies if it was seem directed.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
I was Christianed as an infant in a Presbyterian Church, I received Believers Babtisim as an Independent Babtist when I was 25 and now I am married to a Catholic and thinking about switching to Catholicism. I have pretty much run the gambit. I accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour

*pause button* Great! Be sure to listen to what he says, not what we wish to believe nor what some people teach that is not in alignment.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
but I cannot get my mind around the concept of eternal punishment for something I did or will do in this short life. Catholics and some other Christians believe in purgatory as a place where souls go that are not quite ready to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

What did Jesus say about purgatory? My recommendation is to carefully study the history of purgatory from all angles. Pray about it too. God answers these questions.

Originally posted by WHOFLUNGGUM
I have loved ones that have died by their own hands who according to most are condemmed to hell. If this is the case and I make it to heaven then I will stand before my God and ask him to trade my soul for theirs. If he refuses then I will ask him to please let me go where they are because all this time I was worshiping a loving and forgiving God and I now see Heaven is not the place that I wish to be! I say this in all truthfullness.

I seriously doubt your love for your loved ones will go unnoticed by God. After all, that is what we were commanded to do. "God is love" as it's written. I know there are a lot of people who have lost faith because of unsaved loved ones passing away. I also know that heaven could not be heaven while we're made to see our loved ones suffer. God has a plan. Trust in Him. He hasn't revealed this plan to me, so you and I are on the "wait and see" boat I think. Until then remain faithful to Him, because He has always remained faithful to us and carried out every promise with mercy and grace.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by saint4God]

I read your statement, and if you beleave there is no Hell you may be right. When our body dies we don't, we are eternal beings. As one reply stated there may not be the conventional Hell that most people beleave in, but being seperated from the one that created you and never finding out who or what it is for all eternity would certainly be a state, which you could call Hell. Imagine, knowing that such a being exists but never being able to understand it, surely that would be Hell.

Originally posted by talon565
Not sure what to believe, but after a near death experience from a lovely tropical desease I saw something that looked like judgement day.

It made me feel very small and very stupid, the words, go and and make it right where mentioned and Im reminded of this when you guys says theres nothing after death.

If there isn't Ill see you there

I'd be interested in hearing more. Also, how'd you do at judgement day? I have more spiritual questions too if you'd like to U2U.

Okay, I'm trying a little bend here. Some of this is probably stated elsewhere, along the 'We're living in Hell now' line of thinking.

From the moment you first realize right and wrong, you are accountable. Before that you are innocent through ignorance (won't save you in court of law, but will save you in Judgement... go figure.) Okay, you now are enlightened, ignorance can not save you.

From that moment on your soul (the actual soul, not your physical body) is put into motion due to your actions. Good actions are rewarded, bad are punished. You soul, in this trial time of life, is constantly (or not so constant, depending on the person) going from Heaven to Hell. Helped Old Lady Across the Street (soul is in Heaven), stabbed best friend in back to sleep with his girlfriend (soul in Hell).

Now, I bring this up for a reason. Physically we can feel such things. Every do the right thing, even if it cost you money or power, and have the best night's sleep ever? Ever make that deal that cashed in big time by screwing some one over, and couldn't get a winks sleep even though you knew you just paid all the bills? These emotions and feelings occur. Many, I am sure, have felt torn. This, in my theory, would be due to the unstableness of the situation. Your soul is yet to be firmly entrenched into one setting, and keeps getting ripped from one and whisked to another on your every whim (must be very tiring and spiritual draining).

Now, this is not to say that the last action you take cements you to the place your soul was currently in, or that their is some Eternal Good Vs. Bad Scoreboard keeping count. This is to say that, should you live the AVERAGE LIFE to know both Heaven and Hell during your stay here, that when you are faced with Judgement you will know both places personally. You will understand that one is yours for the rest of Eternity. Perhaps then God stats your pro's and con's, and perhaps you make a defense for why you should be in Heaven. Maybe even others that knew you can state for you (God seeing those with clarity still loving you and being loyal after knowing all your actions could see that your goods far outweigh the bads). I don't know how it all goes.

When accepted or rejected (Let's say accepted, and just switch it for the other side of the coin) your soul is cleansed of the Residue of Hell. It is washed away and you are accepted into Heaven, clean and pure through 'forgiveness'. The memories and pains of that Hell your soul experianced in life are gone. Same theory if you are rejected, except less warm and fuzzy feelings.

Take away forgiveness if not using a Judeo-Christian model here, or some religion that takes forgiveness into account.

So, I submit that we DO live in Hell... and Heaven, spiritually on a daily basis as we PHYSICALLY live on this Earth.

Your saying theres no hell because you believe theres no pain or emotion or any of these life like attributes. Would you say that heaven is going to be a place filled with happyness and love and joy and all that jazz? then you are saying you practicly dont believe in any after life correct? idk man u tell me.

You and I can't exsist yet we do. The dance of life based on good and evil what is life without consequence? What is death withut heaven or hell?
I suppose without belief there would be no life. On and on. Its hard to believe in something on seen but I imagine there is some reasonful logic for this finding it would be each to their own.

Originally posted by iconoclaust
when we die. we die. then we rott for a while. then were bones. or ashes...or mummified... whatever you put in your will. anyways. there cannot be a hell.... i say this because if our spirit goes to a place of fire and brimstone who cares! were dead! with no nervous system we cannot feel pain. if there was pain it wouldnt bee the same human pain we feel in thease bodies. it would be some form of spirit pain... maby lonelyness? can spirits have emotions? you can beleive what you want. im just getting this out of my head so i can fill it with more useless knowledge.