The topic for this debate is "Carollers are the scion of satan."

MemoryShock will be arguing for this proposition and will open the debate.
The Vagabond will argue against this proposition.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by two (2) alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each.

No post will be longer than 800 words and in the case of the closing statement no longer than 500 words. In the event of a debater posting more than the stated word limit then the excess words will be deleted by me from the bottom. Credits or references at the bottom do not count towards the word total.

Editing is Strictly forbidden. This means any editing, for any reason. Any edited posts will be completely deleted.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements only one image may be included in each post. No more than 5 references can be included at the bottom of each post. Opening and closing statements must not contain any images, and must have no more than 3 references.

Responses should be made within 24 hours, with allowances for the holidays. Please don't press the time limit, as these are timely

Judging will be done by an anonymous panel of judges. Results will be posted by me as soon as a majority is reached.

This debate is now open, good luck to both of you.

[edit on 12/23/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

Let me begin by extending my thanks to Amorymeltzer, Nygdan, and the judges for making this debate possible, and my best regards to my opponent Memoryshock; he and I have intended to go at it for a while now.

A modest proposal

Carolers are the scion of Satan- this statement certainly deserves some examination.
The American Heritage Dictionary, 4th Edition, defines scion as "a descendant or heir".
WOW- the descendants and heirs apparent of Beelzebub himself?

I wonder what the Devil's estate is worth.

According to Luke Chapter 4, Verses 5 and 6, the Devil pretty much owns the world. "The Devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, ‘I will give you all of their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.’"

My opponent is therefore stuck with the modest proposal that Carolers are the rightful heirs to the entire Earth by virtue of their kinship with Satan. This proposal is obviously impossible if the Bible is reliable evidence, because the Bible is perfectly clear that it is the meek who shall inherit the Earth by virtue of their relationship with God.

On the other hand, if the Bible is not reliable evidence, then there is no evidence to support the existence of Satan, and thus no evidence that anyone can be his scion.

My opponent is naturally forced therefore to make incredibly thin connections between the bad, repetitive singing of carolers, the shameless pimping-out of Santa by Corporate America, bad interpretation of statistics on obsessive compulsive disorder, and some kind of Satanic Conspiracy- none of which actually proves that carolers are either descended from or heirs to Satan. My opponent can only hope that we will assume that simply because Christmas Carols are a bad thing that those who sing them must be the devil's children.

The voice of an (fallen) angel
Furthermore, the premise that Kenny G is a direct descendent of the Beast is clearly ridiculous. Biblically the Devil is portrayed as being quite beautiful to behold, and so presumably he and his offspring should have beautiful voices- which Kenny G does not. Or if you prefer the more popular depiction of Satan, he usually has a booming, intimidating voice, which Kenny G does not.

The best explanation for Kenny G's voice is that he is the Devil's boyfriend and has had his testes crushed during a vigorous bout of anal sex with Satan. So he is clearly not a descendant. We know the Devil would not support the religious institution of marriage and since Kenny G lives in America where gay marriage is not legal, they cannot be considered common-law spouses, so Kenny G is not an heir to Satan either. He is obviously not Satan’s scion, however many carols he might have remade.


If your torture the facts enough, they will confess
98% of those polled (not of all people) have had "ear worms"- we have no way of knowing what percent of the total population have them.
Many who have earworms also have neurotic habits.

Correlation does not imply causality; we need evidence of the nature of the relationship. It is not necessarily true that earworms cause neurotic behavior. It is just as possible that those with neurotic behavior are simply more likely to have earworms. Infact earworms could be classified as a type of neurotic behavior.

Furthermore, neurotic behavior is often the product of stress. Neurotic behaviors are a form of body language: expressions of emotion. Therefore the stress of the holidays is the causative factor and earworms are the result.

The devious plan my opponent believes he sees in action is infact nothing more than a major neurotic outburst by a bunch of white middle-class Christians, who most of us already knew were wound just a little too tight. During this season they are experiencing the highpoint of their yearly cycle of servitude to the commercial establishment and the all-mighty dollar, and that is the cause of their stress. Caroling is their outlet.

Carolers are not Satan's scion; they are his victims. They huddle together to writhe, spasm, and groan as they figuratively die from the wounds accrued during another year of economic defeat, anxiously awaiting the chance to be reborn with the new year, wherein they swear and resolve to lose weight, ask for a raise, etc.

So why does Memoryshock claim to see a satanic conspiracy being perpetrated by Christians? Because he is playing the Devil’s Advocate (pun definitely intended). He is in fact a probably a caroler, and he too is getting a little neurotic at this time of years, which in his case is causing paranoid delusions.

(Exactly 800 words by Microsoft Word, not including this statement.)

Is there any kind of government agency for the protection of dictionaries? Memoryshock’s dictionary clearly should be placed in foster care before it is forced to contort itself any further for his amusement.

All of the definitions which Memoryshock has provided are correct; however by a clever sleight of tongue he has altered those definitions in application.
quote: Descendant 2 : proceeding from an ancestor or source


The descendant comes from the source, not the descendant’s information. Therefore carolers themselves, not only the original idea for their activity, must come from Satan in order for them to be Satan’s scion. Indeed my opponent has conceded that many now make up their own carols, and therefore in this modern age even more so than ever before, it cannot be claimed that Carolers are Satan’s scion, no matter how neurotic they may be.
If only the inspiration or guidance comes from Satan, then the carolers are not the scion of Satan. My opponent must in fact prove that carolers entered existence by Satan’s creation. To prove this one must disregard the Bible’s testimony, and without that testimony there is no evidence for the existence of Satan at all.

This fact also applies to the caroler who has been put forward as an example, namely Kenny G. The “smoking gun” to which my opponent refers is also clearly not an act of the devil. Since when does the devil have a sense of humor? God is the one who classified all of the best things in life as sins, God is the one who invented the giraffe, God is responsible for televangelism; clearly if anyone in this universe has a sense of humor, it’s God. Therefore it seems likely that Kenny G’s ability to remain oblivious to the ridiculous appearance of his hair is clearly God’s way of putting a humorous silver lining on the black cloud of that man’s voice.


As to the stress of the Holiday Season, my opponent would have you believe that carols are the cause, but he has done nothing to challenge the readily observable cause that I have pointed out. The sinister commercial plot which my opponent previously attempted to associate with carols is clearly the source of holiday stress, and as I have stated previously, caroling is a neurotic behavior intended to relieve that stress by activity.

Carols, far from being reinforcement of learned behaviors, express a longing to depart from the preconceived notion that holidays are a time to get out your checkbook, stampede your fellow man at Walmart, and max out your credit cards on stuff that your kids will probably break the minute they unwrap.
quote: There is nothing innocent about this carol….indeed, it is a blatant attempt to associate the popular expressions of happiness with commercial enterprise so as to perpetuate doubt and anxiety with regard to the presentation and reception of gifts….and the carolers are a partial delivery system for these manipulations…..


My opponent here acknowledges that commerce is indeed the source of holiday stress. Commercialism is the learned behavior which has made Christmas the Devil’s holiday. This behavior is not learned from caroling. It is not carols which originated the idea that the day after Christmas is one of the busiest shopping days of the year. There are no carols about stampedes at Walmart. There are no carols about buying on credit. Corporate America is responsible for the stress of Christmas. Christmas Carols are a manifestation of the misery that Corporate America has wrought on these poor souls who can never get enough of the one thing that they have been taught is most important in life: material wealth.

The fixation on material wealth did not come from Christmas Carols.

Let’s see what Christmas Carols are about:
“All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth” – Needs over luxuries- if you’ve already got your two front teeth, be glad for what you’ve got.
“Away in a manger” – A carol about the very first Christmas, which was celebrated happily in poverty.

Or here’s a good one: “Tiding of Comfort and Joy”- "
"Fear not," then said the angel,
"Let nothing you affright,
This day is born a Savior,
Of virtue, power, and might;
So frequently to vanquish all
The friends of Satan quite";

As Jesus asked after casting out the unclean spirit into the swine which drowned themselves, “How can Satan cast out Satan?”

Christmas Carols are the equivalent of covering your eyes so you won’t see something that scares you. They are a neurotic outburst on the part of Satan’s victims. They are an act of denial and the last refuge of vanquished souls which have sold themselves for too little and often not even received that.

Exhibit A: Holy Water and Garlic do not harm this caroler.

Well, very fast you two, and, if I do say so myself, extremely enjoyable!

We're off to the judges!

By a margin of 5-2, this debate goes The Vagabond!!!

This was a great debate, I had a great time reading it, and so did the judges!!!

The topic of this debate is clearly a hard-one to debate, but Memory Shock took a connection that was very weak, one of earworms. I applaud him for sticking to this premise though, and while one can connect stress to Satan, there was no clear connection of caroling to earworms/stress which Vagabond showed us. Though, Vagabond's preoccupation of relating the Church to Satan hurt his cause as Vagabond tried to redeem caroling by relating the canonization one of the first carolers. But what does canonization mean if it's being done by a satanic organization? Thus, it was a very close debate, overall though, Vagabond was the best debater.


the hardest that I laughed was when he logically showed there was no way Kenny G could be Satan's scion. LMAO!


While both of them did a great job and were informational and to the point, I feel Memory Shock did a better job of presentation and was that much more clear and concise than vagabond.

My vote would have to go to Memory Shock!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!