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is disease natures or government population control?

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posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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Is it a coincidence that a large percentage of deadly diseases originate in the most highly populated areas
of the world? I don't think so. The question is.......... Is nature responsible or is it a government agenda? I would like to hear your opinion.
www.geocities.com...




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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HI FishMaster,
I can't document this but still believe it is interresting. Years ago ( 18)at a private dinner one of the guest's told us about his experiance as a private pilot for some scientists. He recalled them speaking about the AIDS virus and how well it had spread!!! I know it is useless with out doc. Sorry.
WIS

[edit on 22-12-2005 by WalkInSilence]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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Ok, this is easliy the STUPIDEST "conspiracy theory" I have ever heard in my life. I'm only a medical student, not even a doctor yet, and I know that disease is spread due to nature, not some freaky medical experiment in population control. You brought up the question as to why areas with high populations have higher rates of disease. Are you seriously just that dumb? Let's see....let's imagine two cities: City A and City B. City A has a population of 1 000. City B has a population of 1 000 000, but both occup about the same area of 100 square km. Now, let's say one person in each city catches ebola from a chimpanzee that wanders into the city. Which city do you think it will spread faster in? City A which has a population density of 10 people per square km, or City B which has a population density of 10 000 people per square kilometer? If you can't answer that yourself and see why disease spreads more and shows up more in highly populated cities, you need to go buy a general biology book from a first year college biolog course. I apologize if you happen to have had a lobotomy or such surgery which prevents you from using logic.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:18 PM
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Id like to point out the US has already tried population control on it's inhabitants. When the west was being settled the powers that were gave small pox infected blankets to the native Americans that were on the land they wanted. So there is a precident and it wouldn't suprise me that the evil, greedy, power drunk scum that currently reside in DCwould try something similar today.

Some believe that the chemtrails are part of a pop. control plot.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:31 PM
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Okay... a little anthropology-paleontology-history, here:

There was a time back in the dim past when we lived in small family groups and small tribes of less than 200 people. Disease often killed, but had no chance to spread beyond that group. If one member of Tribe-A came down with tuberculosis, the whole tribe was exposed to it. However, Tribe-B didn't get it because they only saw Tribe-A once a year (and that was to throw rocks at them.)

In the modern world, indigenous people who live in the forests far away from civilization have almost no immunity to disease.

When the Hypsithermal hit (a period of intense climate change some 8,000 years ago), people were forced down into the river valleys (because that's the place where the animals went to get away from arid deserts). Instead of seeing other tribes once a year, now they were in constant contact with them and with animals. Disease spread quickly and mutated as populations grew larger. As animals became domesticated, some of their diseases jumped species and hit humans as well.

The tradeoff is that as people started living in large groups, their immune systems developed and became robust.

This is why the American Indians (who lived in tribal groups and moved frequently) had almost no resistance to European diseases (which had flourished in huge cities...and people had become partly resistant to some of these diseases.)

That enhanced European immunity is ALSO why no diseases of the Native Americans spread and became plagues in the European communities.



posted on Dec, 23 2005 @ 12:05 AM
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Ok, in response to Whaaa:
You are incredibl dumb. The incident you're referring to as far as the smallpox infested blankets occured near present day Pittsburgh and was not performed by Americans, but by Lord Amherst (of collegiate fame) of the British Army in 1763 who did this during the French-Indian War. This was NOT done by anyone in DC, NOT while we were settling the west, and NOT by an American. Get your damn facts straight before you shoot your mouth off and accuse "the scum in DC" of anything, idiot.

As for the other poster:
Yes, you're right, population density DOES help build immunity, but have you ever heard of the genetic mixing pool? This is the reason people like me have to study antibiotic resistant bacteria in first and second year medical classes. While we do in fact build up immunity while living in larger populations and being exposed to various pathogenic organisms and materials, we do, in fact, allow for various proteins from different sources to encounter one another that normally wouldn't. This is what some scientists feel accounts for things such as avian flu, some forms of herpes, the various forms of HIV, etc. . By providing literally thousands, and in some cities hundreds of thousands of hosts who are melting pots of bacterial nutritients, we allow things that are normally not pathogenic or that we have immunity for to mutate, adapt, transduce into something much worse, a la 1918 flu epidemic.



[edit on 23-12-2005 by bsl4doc]



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Ok, this is easliy the STUPIDEST "conspiracy theory" I have ever heard in my life.


Originally posted by bsl4doc
Ok, in response to Whaaa:
You are incredibl dumb.


[edit on 23-12-2005 by bsl4doc]



Originally posted by bsl4doc
Ok, this is easliy the STUPIDEST "conspiracy theory" I have ever heard in my life.


I think we really need a moderator or a super moderator (Byrd) maybe to give Our Master of insults bsl4doc some sort of lashing or maybe kick them out! I would love to listen to peoples opinions without having to strain my brain with someones rediculous insults.

Anyone else?



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
You are incredibl dumb.


Please stop referring to people in the forum in this manner. With all due respect to your education, there are a lot of people here that are much better informed than you about a wide variety of topics, including your own field.

Show a little respect, a bachelor's degree and a decent score on the MCAT only goes so far. People may be uninformed, but it's simply out of line for you to call people dumb and stupid.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:33 PM
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Which is: Medical Issues & Conspiracies » is disease natures or government population control?

Please direct all comments to this topic, and nothing else, lest the unfortunate poo flinging begins.

For reference:

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

Thanks.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:37 PM
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Thanks all for your defence but I can take insults pretty well. I can also dish them out with sublty that can scrape the hide off the most acerbic among us. I currently use restraint now that I have been bestowed with the red flag of scorn on occasion.

I still stand by my original post.

[edit on 24-12-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by fishmaster

I think we really need a moderator or a super moderator (Byrd) maybe to give Our Master of insults bsl4doc some sort of lashing or maybe kick them out! I would love to listen to peoples opinions without having to strain my brain with someones rediculous insults.

Anyone else?


Yeah the guy did throw a couple insults here and there but if you read past those words the other words in the post kinda pointed out the flaw in your entire thread. Is that why you wan't him off your thread so you can continue to discuss this without opposition?



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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Thank you, Agent 47. I do realize I was fairly brash in a few of my posts, but it just kills me to see people ignoring basic scientific fact that is readily available online, in books, everywhere, just for the sake of pretending there is some big nasty conspiracy in the field of medicine.



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 01:23 AM
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bsl4doc-

LMAO!!!

Did you notice Above Top Secret "Conspiracy community" Title?

To be honest, I would love to have more Healthcare Educated people Here. But you do us a disservice By labeling "laymen" as Dumb.

And thus you reinforce thier "conspiracy" ideas. While Making me, and others look like idiots.



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 01:33 AM
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I know it's a Conspiracy community, msnevil, but I have observed this forum for a while and read some very intelligent and compelling arguments in the medical field regarding avian flu, certain mediations such as vioxx (which I DO believe had some governmental/economic conspiracy behind it), etc.. That's why I reacted to severly when I read posts on here that clearly disregarded reality and reason. And I don't think I ever labelled laymen as dumb, as ou suggest. Certain laymen, I most certainly did and I have apologized to the mod for my remarks. I don't see why one person telling them their ideas are ridiculous would reinforce their conspiracy theories, however...

~MFP



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Fishmaster-

Have You ever noticed that in Animals. That when Confined to a very small area. That they are more prone to disease's?

Not to mention, Who made the "Deadly disease's" Before the Age of Medicine???

BTW- I admire the Aids disease.

Between 1950's-1970's. Scientists were Bragging that we were Conquering all type of disease's. And that Antibotics would "cure" the world.

Then in the late 1970's, Here come's this mysterious disease that kills everybody when it becomes active. And every Tx. Known to Man has Failed.

This disease spared no one. Young and old, Rich or poor. All died. And mankind in his arrogence can not stop it.

Thus Aids was a "Nature" wake up call. A Enemy bred by Nature to show man the folly of his pride. And perhaps by it humbling us. We will learn to work with Nature, and not agianst it.



posted on Dec, 25 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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Not to mention the string hemmorhagic fevers that have sprung up in the last 30 years. Those are incredibly interesting, and nearly every one of them occurs predominately in an area where humans are encroaching on a jungle or wetland.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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bsl4doc is more than welcome to have as much an input as anyone one here. All i ask is for less back talk towards peoples ideas and questions.....My original thread was asking everyones opinion and to hear what thay had to say, not what there best negative comment is. I'm sure everyone has a wide variety of rude and insulting comments. So now back tot he comment at hand. THE ORIGINAL THREAD.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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And my original point stands. Does it not make sense that if someone in a city catches a viral infection, it will spread more quickly than in a remote village? This is the reason Ebola does not spread outside a small area. It infects quickly and kills quickly, thus wiping out an entire village before it can spread to the next. Why is it so hard to believe that mutations occur in bacteria and viruses. I have seen it done in laboratory settings, and I have done it myself in studies. Bacteria naturally mutate, they adapt and evolve just like us. Every now and then, the bacterium's lottery number comes up and it wins, meaning the right combination of genes come together and allow it to greatl increase it's infection rate. Why would America or any nation for that matter want to induce an epidemic that would lower the amount of tax dollars flowing into it? If an epidemic were to suddenly spring up in America, people would begin dieing and leaving. How does that benefit the nation at all? We are no where near overpopulated, the population just tends to be concentrated in some major cities such as NYC, LA, etc.. If anything, suburbanization has lowered disease rates and population in these cities.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 10:51 PM
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I agree. This is a conspiracy forum and people should feel free to discuss any conpiracy related thoughts here. By the way I'm a medical student too. (just starting but still a student.
)

I've been thinking about the same thing. This interests me I must say. But what makes me be not sure about whether the government is involved or not is if they were, wouldn't they really keep the population under control?
By that I mean try harder because last time I checked we're still multiplying in large numbers.

But then they might not be putting it very strong so they wouldn't attract much attention or maybe that's the very point of keeping the population in small numbers.. so we wouldn't think the gov't is involved.

Yuriko



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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That's cool that you're a med student, as well. Where are you studying?

Anyways, back on topic, sorry. Yeah, it just seems to me that if the government were trying to control the population, wouldn't we see a variation every election as to who gets the most health benefits? Obviously, traditionally Republican and Democrat demographic groups are massively different. Taking that into account, wouldn't G. H. W. Bush have wanted more people to be alive who will vote for his party? Sure! But then, when Clinton won the election, wouldn't he have then undone everything G. H.W. Bush did in his "population control" scheme? Soo...wouldn't it be a bit counterintuitive to have the government control the population when you have basically two different governments squabbling over everything and trying to screw each other over?

Sure, you could say "Oh, but the population control scheme is above that! It's controlled by some extra-governmental group that is outside of political party." Um, no. There is no group outside of political party. There were policy disagreements in the FBI, CIA, KGB, NSA, etc that have made it into the news. Do you honestly think organizations who routinely change directors and policies could pull off a scheme 100 years in the making?



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