Iraq War is Lost: US begins to pull Troops

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by Odium


At one point, I would have agreed with you, these days I am not so sure if we won or lost.

We will not know if have won until we pull out. IF the country continues to run the way it is or better on its own, we have won. IMO

I'd not be as sure as you are on that.

Any half-decent insurgency, will have planted a lot of their guys inside the Military and Police Force. They will more than likely be waiting for the U.S. to pull out, before they push Iraq into chaos so they can take it over like they did Afghanistan.

Correct and if this happens the war is not a win. I figured I wouldn't have to say it, it would be self evident what I was saying. I should know better.

Originally posted by Nakash
The war has been lost. You can't occupy a nation where 95% of the population wants you out and not expect casualties.

Well here’s a poll showing that you need to stop pulling numbers out your A.

2005: 82 percent of Sunni Arabs and 69 percent of Shiites favor US withdrawal either immediately or after an elected government is in place.

Link
Link

I do believe that since we held the elections for a permanent parliament, and since the ISF are increasing in number we seem to be doing just that.

Also, who here has said we did not expect casualties? This is a war, yes? As such, there will always be casualties.

Originally posted by Nakash
The whole purpose of invading Iraq was to rid them of tyranny, but instead we have become the tyrants. It's a self-defeating concept- we are in Iraq for freedom, but at the same time we are the ones restricting the Freedom(s) of Iraqis.

I guess you must have missed this.

Anecdotal evidence shows that there has been a good turnout, that it was inclusive and that security was well maintained," said Ashraf Qazi, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan's special representative. "These are all good measures of success.

Link

And this

Iraqis went to the polls today to choose their first long term democratically-elected government after the fall of Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist regime. Voter turnout was so high, especially in Sunni-dominated areas that had boycotted the January interim government election, that many stations needed to extend voting by one hour. Violence was minimal, with reports of only scattered attacks with few casualities. Preliminary results could be out as early as later today; however a full official tally could take days or even weeks to complete.

Link

And this.

An ABC News poll in Iraq, conducted with Time magazine and other media partners, includes some remarkable results: Despite the daily violence there, most living conditions are rated positively, seven in 10 Iraqis say their own lives are going well, and nearly two-thirds expect things to improve in the year ahead.

Surprisingly, given the insurgents' attacks on Iraqi civilians, more than six in 10 Iraqis feel very safe in their own neighborhoods, up sharply from just 40 percent in a poll in June 2004. And 61 percent say local security is good — up from 49 percent in the first ABC News poll in Iraq in February 2004.

Link

Originally posted by Nakash
It's so obviously a smokescreen that I'm still surprised there are still people who support this war right now.

Really it’s “so obvious”, huh? I’m sure since it’s “so obvious” you will have no trouble pointing it out to us then.

[edit on 26-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

The "good turnout" was to vote America out of Iraq. That's the only consensus between them.

The "good turnout" was to vote America out of Iraq. That's the only consensus between them.

Yeah... I’m pretty sure it was for voting in a new permanent parliament. But I know what you’re trying to say though. Since the Iraqis voted a new parliament it means that the country is moving in the right direction, therefore, the US will not need to keep as many troops in Iraq as in the past. Correct?
However I do not see the problem, isn't this what everyone wants? A self governing Iraq with less US troops.

It's difficult for some people to realize that the majority of Iraqis may want us to leave, but at the same time appreciate what we have done for them. They are eager to begin to govern themselves as one Iraq:

Iraq Shi'ites, Kurds agree to open govt to Sunnis

By Shamal Aqrawi
ARBIL, Iraq (Reuters) - Leaders of the Shi'ite and Kurdish blocs that emerged triumphant in this month's Iraqi election agreed on Tuesday to push ahead with efforts to bring Sunni and other parties into a grand coalition government.

The visit of Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim of the Shi'ite Islamist Alliance to the Kurdish capital Arbil opened a series of planned meetings among rival factions intended to ease friction over election results which Sunni and secular parties say have been rigged and to begin building a consensus administration.
Link

The insurgency is the one big loser in this - they are slow to accept that their tactics have failed, including the oil fire set today. We ( the coalition ) have had to hold back on eliminating them; the new Iraqi government will not have the same restraints when it comes to the insurgency.

There are those westerners who want to see the US lose in Iraq; to them, I say, feh! You are pitiful.



[edit on 27-12-2005 by jsobecky]

[edit on 27-12-2005 by jsobecky]

There are those westerners who want to see the US lose in Iraq; to them, I say, feh! You are pitiful.

May I suggest you [snip]
It's outrageous how some members on this board call others concerned with legitimate issues involving this (suspicious) war "appeasers" or suggest they are traitors. Watch what you have to say

*removed unnecessary, inflammatory comments*

[edit on 27-12-2005 by dbates]

Suggest all you want.

It's outrageous how some members on this board call others concerned with legitimate issues involving this (suspicious) war "appeasers" or suggest they are traitors.

Don't feign offense with me, Nakash, please. You're way too transparent. I called no-one an appeaser or a traitor.

But if a person is so pitiful as to want to see his country lose, then that certainly doesn't classify them as a patriot. It does make them an apologist for the enemy.

Watch what I say? I'll call a spade a spade, and if you want to feign some type of hurt, then that's your problem. If you do take it personally, that's the same as admitting that you want the US to lose.

[edit on 28-12-2005 by jsobecky]

I see no point in debating somebody as simple minded as you, to confuse support for a despotic goverment with care for the well being of fellow citizens. People like you are a dime a dozen in America, and I'm not joining the George Bush personality cult.

These :




seem to have worked exceptionally well on people like you.

Feign hurt for that jerk.


[edit on 28-12-2005 by Nakash]

Umm... Nakash are you in denial that George W. Bush is our president? Are you in denial that he was re-elected by the majority of the popular and electoral vote in 04? If so, then those billboards are for people like you, and it seems to have failed miserably in brining you back down to reality.

I'm so glad I got to meet the Vice in person and get a pic with him!

I now go around to my simple minded liberal friends taunting them with "I am part of the vast right wing conspiracy!"

[edit on 29-12-2005 by American Mad Man]

Originally posted by Nakash
I see no point in debating somebody as simple minded as you, to confuse support for a despotic goverment with care for the well being of fellow citizens.

George can take care of himself, he doesn't need me to "feign hurt" for him.

And I may be simple-minded, but you hate your country.

You can spin it any way you want, but you hate your country and want them to lose in Iraq.

You try to imply that you want GWB to lose, or that you are only against his "despotic gov't". You don't know what a despot is. A despot wouldn't allow you to pout about how you want him to lose a war. When you say you want the US to lose, you mean you want the troops to suffer more casualties. I can believe that you would cheer if we were to suffer casualties while withdrawing.:shk:

Pitiful, really. This guy dragging the flag seems to sum up your attitude toward our troops:



Pitiful.