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Spiegel satirist Broder re Iran Presid’s idea "Give the Jews Schleswig Holstein"

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posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:52 AM
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Long post but certainly worth reading.


Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinedshad’s suggestion to move Israel to Germany is not as absurd as it sounds. If you consider the idea impartially, you can see a historic land reform concept which can be advantageous to all parties.

Everyone is attacking the Iranian president again because he suggested moving Israel from the Middle East to Germany, or Austria. Even those who were not outraged about Mahmud Ahmadinedschad’s demand "to wipe Israel off the map" are agitated, because now they see the problem as becoming theirs. As much as a "world without Zionism" is imaginable, a Europe with a Jewish State in its midst is a vision of horror that no one wants to follow to its logical conclusion.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel called Ahmadinedschad’s suggestions "totally unacceptable". Her hasty reaction did not take into account that the Iranian president had, after all, moved away from his original demand to destroy Israel and now wants a "relocation" of the "Zionist entity". From a humanitarian point of view, this is progress: The Israelis should no longer be disappear into the ocean, but sent on an overseas journey instead. One could also say that Europe should take back the problem that it created and exported. But the recipient is refusing delivery of the parcel even before it has been sent.

Sure enough: When Ahmadinedschad is right, he’s right. It doesn’t help to call him "inexperienced in foreign affairs", as the director of the Orient Institute, Udo Steinbach, recently did.

The Middle East conflict is not only collateral damage of the Holocaust, it’s a product of European anti Semitism. Without the pogroms in Poland and Russia, without the Dreyfuss Affair in France (which made Herzl into a Zionist), without the German attempt at the "final solution" to the Jewish problem, the Jews would still be dreaming of their own State instead of having to protect it.

Palestinians are paying for the sins of the European

Ahmadinedschad’s idea may be vague, but in principal it is correct. The Palestinians are paying for the sins of the Europeans. And if there were such a thing as historical justice in this world, the Jewish State would have been founded in Schleswig-Holstein or in Bavaria, and not in Palestine.

I have written this sentence several times in the past - the last time right here - and am both delighted and surprised that Ahmadinedschad has seized upon my suggestion, even if didn’t give me the credit.

Historically, this idea is not so absurd as it is now being portrayed. The Zionist movement was unsure for a long time where the "Jewish State" should be situated. Herzl spoke from a "piece of the earth’s surface" that Jews would be able to administer. There were considerations to establish a "colony" in Uganda or Argentina. That Palestine was finally chosen had both historical and emotional, as well as practical reasons. William II, who considered himself to be the patron of the holy sites in Jerusalem, wanted a "German protectorate" in Palestine, and was therefore receptive to Herzel’s ideas. If it had not been for the First World War, something could have come of the project.

As it was, Israel was only established after the Second World War under very different, extremely dramatic circumstances. It was not only about giving the Jews a "home", but also to get a half a million "displaced persons", survivors of the Holocaust, out of Europe. And so, the old Jewish prayer "next year in Jerusalem" became reality.

But as often happens with wishes and dreams that come true, hardly had the Europeans solved the problem, a new one was created. It is indeed difficult to explain to the Palestinians why they should share their country with the Jews who were treated badly in Europe. The Palestinians are not responsible for either the Pogroms from Kishinev to Kielce, nor for the concentration camp politics of the Nazis.

Return to the Principle that the Party Responsible is Liable for the Damages.

What Ahmadinedschad is now demanding, is the return to the principle that the party responsible pay for the damages. Those responsible for solving a problem are those who created it.

And those are the Europeans. At most one could hold against him that his knowledge of history isn’t very good because he reduces the contribution to the Germans, instead of taking the Russians, the Poles and the French to task as well.

But this deficiency doesn’t change the fact that Ahmadinedscha is essentially right. And instead of being outraged about his suggestion, it would be better to recognize the advantages that they offer all parties concerned. The Israelis would finally get rid of their biggest problem: Security. The Germans would now be in charge of that. And in view of the traditionally good Arab German relations, no Arab country would dare to attack Germany.

The second large advantage would be: Instead of having to spend a lot of money on trips to Europe, the Israelis would already be there, .where they feel comfortable, where you can do great shopping, and where you can ride a bus or a train even on Saturdays. The return for the Germans would be even bigger. They would finally have the "Jewish contribution to German culture" back that they have so painfully missed since 1939. No more yearning for fresh bagels, Klezmer music, kosher finger food Jewish inventors or Nobel prize winners. They would all be included in the German statistics.

There are places in the Allgaeu that have similarities with the landscape in Samaria.

The question remains, where would one establish the Jewish State on German soil. Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern are sparsely populated, there are millions of empty apartments in the former East Germany. But one can’t assume that the Jews would want to settle close to the water again. It is also beautiful in the mountains, and there are areas in the Allgau that have similarities with the landscape in Samaria.

If one contemplates the Iran president’s suggestions without preconceived opinion and considers all the advantages and disadvantages without anger, one has to admit that the idea is more than just funky. It is enticing. Up til now, "The history of the German territory reaches Palestine" was the sentence which was the basis of the German Near East policy. Now the opportunity would present itself to carry out an historic land reform, to clean up in one’s own house.

But it won’t come to that. Like all new ideas, this one too will be kicked around and rejected at the end. And who knows, perhaps in Aachen someone is already thinking about awarding the next medal to the Iranian president, in spite of his terrible earnestness.

www.spiegel.de... translated
By : Henryk M. Broder
December Saturday 10th 2005


Henryk M. Broder is a one of the most controversial writers in Germany and he is a jew and son of two Polish Holocaust survivors.

I shall admit I agree with this guy on every single point he has made in this article.



RESPECT




posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 09:52 AM
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To hell with the Palestinians.
They have many countries in which they can live amongst fellow muslims.

They have Jordan right next door, which was created especially for them to have a muslim state.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
To hell with the Palestinians.




Originally posted by AceOfBase
They have many countries in which they can live amongst fellow muslims.

It's like asking irish to go to scotland, or mexicans to flee to latin america, once their countries is invaded and occupied bu uk and us respectively.
I don't want to be forced to move out of where I live coz some *%$#^ zionist jews think my home belongs to them.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
They have Jordan right next door, which was created especially for them to have a muslim state.

And Israeilis could move to Europe just overseas.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:24 AM
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Anyone else notice that this guy is a satirist, and that this suggestion apparently ranks with the modest suggestion the overpopulated ireland use its excess children as food during the famines (thus killing two birds with one stone, so to speak)


And Israeilis could move to Europe just overseas.

OR, the rest of the world could leave the yehudis alone and let them take jordan, palestine, lebanon, syrian, and saudi arabia, then they'd have plenty of land, eh?



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by proprog
I don't want to be forced to move out of where I live coz some *%$#^ zionist jews think my home belongs to them.


Hey watch the hate speech there.

The Palestinians have tried to move to other Arab countries and only expelled either because they cause problems due to their inherent instability and lack of usefulness as a workforce or simply because neighboring countries are selfish.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
To hell with the Palestinians.

Words like this make Angry People.

IF you can say To hell with the Palestinians - then I can say To Hell with the Jews.

But - where does that get us?

Any closer to an Understanding?



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by proprog
They have many countries in which they can live a
It's like asking irish to go to scotland, or mexicans to flee to latin america, once their countries is invaded and occupied bu uk and us respectively.
I don't want to be forced to move out of where I live coz some *%$#^ zionist jews think my home belongs to them.


Actually, telling the Jews to move to Europe is like the English telling the Irish to move to Scotland.

The Arabs were invaders of Palestine just like the English invaded Ireland.
The only difference is that the Arabs truely beleive the land they invaded should belong to them and no one else.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
Actually, telling the Jews to move to Europe is like the English telling the Irish to move to Scotland.


it's israeilis who think israeil is part of the promised land and a non-jew should not live on the holy land. the first people who fled to palestine and established a colony were of the same race of those who settled in iraq, egypt, etc. only a minor fraction of israeilis are of palestinian race, the rest being migrants of european, african, russian, and persian race. yes persian. in fact, Israeli new labour party leader, and israel's current defense minister are both persian.


Originally posted by AceOfBase
The only difference is that the Arabs truely beleive the land they invaded should belong to them and no one else.


before the establishment of the state of israel, jews, christians, and muslims were all living together peacefully.


RESPECT



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by proprog
the first people who fled to palestine and established a colony were of the same race of those who settled in iraq, egypt, etc. only a minor fraction of israeilis are of palestinian race, the rest being migrants of european, african, russian, and persian race


The Palestinian race is not traditionally Arab.
Those Arabs lving in Palestine are the descendents of the Arab invaders so they can not claim historical right to that area that are of greater importance than the Jewish historical rights to Israel.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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The palestinians and yehudis are more or less native to the region. The yehudis, outside of the ones the immigrated there after wwII, and palestinians, are rather closely related. They're not necessarily 'arabs', in the sense that saudis are arabs.

The hebrews have a legend about comming into the area and fighting with the natives, who, bizzarely, in many ways resemble greeks.


So unless anyone wants to cede Israel, palestine, and lebanon to Athens, the whole 'priority' issue is pointless.

The israelis are in israel, and they are occupying palestine. The palestinians don't seem to mind, they haven't, for example, flung an army at the borders of israel.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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: Originally posted by AceOfBase
Those Arabs lving in Palestine are the descendents of the Arab invaders so they can not claim historical right to that area that are of greater importance than the Jewish historical rights to Israel.

not true, arab invaders were in fact, arab muslims invading arab jews in Palestine. Jews betrayed Mohammad, and then he decided to take revenge. After the jewish tribe fell to Mohammad's army, most palestinian jews converted and as Islam recognizes religions whom worship single God, muslims lived with jews and christians in palestine till the establishment of Israel.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyone else notice that this guy is a satirist, and that this suggestion apparently ranks with the modest suggestion the overpopulated ireland use its excess children as food during the famines (thus killing two birds with one stone, so to speak)


Look what I found:
Broder has apparently confirmed that his article was totally serious.



My article on Ahmadinejad proposal was totally serious: Broder

TEHRAN, Dec. 23 (MNA) -- After the Iranian press republished an article by Henryk M. Broder which said President Mahmud Ahmadinejad’s recent proposal to move Israel to Europe is correct in principal, the Persian service of the BBC, some other internet news sites, and some Iranian newspapers described the article as satire.
On Wednesday, the Mehr News Agency contacted Henryk M. Broder, who wrote the article for the German magazine Der Spiegel, to see what he had to say.
Broder confirmed that his article was totally serious.
“I have criticized all those who called my article satire. I called the Persian service of the BBC and criticized them for publishing such things about my article,” he said.
The German writer sent his best wishes to President Ahmadinejad, saying that he is well aware of the fact that the issue is particularly important for the Iranian president.

www.mehrnews.com...




posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by proprog

Look what I found:
Broder has apparently confirmed that his article was totally serious.



My article on Ahmadinejad proposal was totally serious: Broder

www.mehrnews.com...



That is really great, Henryk M. Broder, living in Jerusalem and Berlin, is such a satirist - and the Iranians did not notice that he


The Iranians should go to Henryk M. Broders website, or see one of his films or read one of his books - then they would know he is a 100% Zionist.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 08:21 AM
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reading the whole article, it certainly didn't sound like a piece of satire to me. I guess this is one of his few serious articles. not to mention, he's pointed out some serious stuff.

I really don't think he is a zionist. not all jews are zionists. not all holocoust survivors are zionists. not all israeilis are zionists.


RESCPECT



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Agent47
The Palestinians have tried to move to other Arab countries and only expelled either because they cause problems due to their inherent instability and lack of usefulness as a workforce or simply because neighboring countries are selfish.


The other Arab countries purposely keep the Palestinians stateless, to fight a proxy war with Israel. It doesn't help the Arab countries if there is peace in Palestine.

PS, If the Jews were forced to evacuate ISrael for places unknown, they should wipe out everything they've built over the last 50+ years. It was a desert when they arrived and it shall be when they leave.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Originally posted by proprog
reading the whole article, it certainly didn't sound like a piece of satire to me. I guess this is one of his few serious articles.



That is because you do not know anything about Henryk M. Broder.


Maybe you should visit Broders website or read his books that would help you a lot here.



"The Eternal Anti-Semite":"Today, nearly 20 years after "The Eternal Antisemite" was first published, anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism have lost none of their virulence; on the contrary, they have moved from the peripheries of society into the centre. What is now referred to as “new anti-Semitism” is just a variety of the age-old prejudice which has proved itself immune to every solution."





[edit on 24-12-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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So, some here are seriously suggesting Israel should just rent a couple U-Hauls and move to Europe? What a joke. I suspect then that there are many other disputed lands that currently residing countries should be evicted from as well.



posted on Dec, 24 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Something wrong with this thread- it's NOT ok to bash Palestinians instead of Zionists. Especially when they are the real victims.



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