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My honest opinion on who will be the Antichrist

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posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why isn't anybody acknowledging that all talk of the antichrist and beasts took place during times of intense persuction.


You make a good point because that is actually how the myth of the messiah came to be when the Jewish people were in exile persecuted and oppressed.



What has persecution have to do with the inspiration of scripture? A fact that is apparently not well known to those who live comfortably in the West, is that more christians are being persecuted and being slaughtered for their faith now then in any other time of history. They suffer primarily at the hands of Muslims and 'enlightened' atheists such as the Chinese and N. korean governments. India and Myanmar are also intensely persecuting christians. You obviously believe the scriptures are fairy tales and yet there are hundreds of fulfilled predictions, some of which are being fulfilled in our present age such as the rebirth of Israel and the rise of the one world government.




posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders

What has persecution have to do with the inspiration of scripture? A fact that is apparently not well known to those who live comfortably in the West, is that more christians are being persecuted and being slaughtered for their faith now then in any other time of history. They suffer primarily at the hands of Muslims and 'enlightened' atheists such as the Chinese and N. korean governments. India and Myanmar are also intensely persecuting christians. You obviously believe the scriptures are fairy tales and yet there are hundreds of fulfilled predictions, some of which are being fulfilled in our present age such as the rebirth of Israel and the rise of the one world government.


okay, calm down thunders. what i'm trying to say is that both daniel and revelations were written during intense persecution. both have a message of hope to comfort those being persecuted.

also, i think your claims of christian persecution are overblown. china and north korea don't just oppress one religion they oppress them all because they don't want any thought to deviate from the brainwashing of the nation, heck china is trying to gain complete control over tibetan buddhism so it can just wipe it off the planet.

also, one world government? that's not in the bible (contrary to what the left behind series would like you to believe), back then the "one world government" term was refferring simply to the plethora (sp) of empires passing through the region of palestine at the time.

rebirth of israel, hmm, why would israelites want to fortell the rebirth of israel. that's a thinker right there.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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If Daniel had been written only as a commentary on Jewish Persecution in his day then can you explain why Christ would quote him hundreds of years later on?


Bible KJV
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand



Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


An interesting side note is that here he have the very first documented use of Emtocons:
& ,)



[edit on 1/2/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


okay, calm down thunders. what i'm trying to say is that both daniel and revelations were written during intense persecution. both have a message of hope to comfort those being persecuted.

also, i think your claims of christian persecution are overblown. china and north korea don't just oppress one religion they oppress them all because they don't want any thought to deviate from the brainwashing of the nation, heck china is trying to gain complete control over tibetan buddhism so it can just wipe it off the planet.

also, one world government? that's not in the bible (contrary to what the left behind series would like you to believe), back then the "one world government" term was refferring simply to the plethora (sp) of empires passing through the region of palestine at the time.

rebirth of israel, hmm, why would israelites want to fortell the rebirth of israel. that's a thinker right there.


I'll let the experts speak to the issue of christian persecution in the modern era. You should find some real evidence about just how bad things really are.
www.persecution.com...
www.opendoorsusa.org...
www.barnabasfund.org...

The left behind series was at times entertaining fiction, but poorly thought out eschatology. My biggest gripe is the pre-tribulation rapture concept, but that is another topic.

Your bias towards the Bible being a hodge podge of human inspired prose, shows itself concerning the motivation behind revealing the fact that Israel would be dispersed more than once and yet regathered as a nation. Look at this verse in Isaiah 11



In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.


The bible is quite explicit about the rise of a one world government as shown in these scriptures from Revelation 13 5


5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.


I don't know what meaning you ascribe to the phrase,

And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation
, but that sure sounds like a one world dictatorship to me.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


okay, calm down thunders. what i'm trying to say is that both daniel and revelations were written during intense persecution. both have a message of hope to comfort those being persecuted.

also, i think your claims of christian persecution are overblown. china and north korea don't just oppress one religion they oppress them all because they don't want any thought to deviate from the brainwashing of the nation, heck china is trying to gain complete control over tibetan buddhism so it can just wipe it off the planet.

also, one world government? that's not in the bible (contrary to what the left behind series would like you to believe), back then the "one world government" term was refferring simply to the plethora (sp) of empires passing through the region of palestine at the time.

rebirth of israel, hmm, why would israelites want to fortell the rebirth of israel. that's a thinker right there.


I'll let the experts speak to the issue of christian persecution in the modern era. You should find some real evidence about just how bad things really are.
www.persecution.com...
www.opendoorsusa.org...
www.barnabasfund.org...

The left behind series was at times entertaining fiction, but poorly thought out eschatology. My biggest gripe is the pre-tribulation rapture concept, but that is another topic.

Your bias towards the Bible being a hodge podge of human inspired prose, shows itself concerning the motivation behind revealing the fact that Israel would be dispersed more than once and yet regathered as a nation. Look at this verse in Isaiah 11



In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. 11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.

12 He will raise a banner for the nations
and gather the exiles of Israel;
he will assemble the scattered people of Judah
from the four quarters of the earth.


The bible is quite explicit about the rise of a one world government as shown in these scriptures from Revelation 13 5


5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. 6He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.


I don't know what meaning you ascribe to the phrase,

And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation
, but that sure sounds like a one world dictatorship to me.


it may sound like a one world religion to you, but then agian, it sounds like how they pictured the emporer of rome...
an all consuming, multilingual, multinational, multitribal dictatorship. one that seems to have authority over the entire world. sounds a lot like rome during the christian persecution to me...

i've read about some of those prisoners before, and some are actually political prisoners as well. that doesn't list the near genocide of chinese muslims either...
also, the guys who set a qu'ran in fire in a jail cell are getting the same treatment that a prisoner in gitmo would get for lighting up a bible.

i think that christianity isn't overpersecuted, only equally persecuted. i'm not denying any persecution, just saying that christians in the west don't really understand how bad most of the world has it and when they here of someone remotely like them being persecuted, they tend to overreact.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


it may sound like a one world religion to you, but then agian, it sounds like how they pictured the emporer of rome...
an all consuming, multilingual, multinational, multitribal dictatorship. one that seems to have authority over the entire world. sounds a lot like rome during the christian persecution to me...

i've read about some of those prisoners before, and some are actually political prisoners as well. that doesn't list the near genocide of chinese muslims either...
also, the guys who set a qu'ran in fire in a jail cell are getting the same treatment that a prisoner in gitmo would get for lighting up a bible.

i think that christianity isn't overpersecuted, only equally persecuted. i'm not denying any persecution, just saying that christians in the west don't really understand how bad most of the world has it and when they here of someone remotely like them being persecuted, they tend to overreact.



Are you a believer? Perhaps you are a preterist then? My main problem with the preterist position is how they deal with all the scriptures that speak of the triumphant return of the messiah to rule the earth, and the signs that accompany that return. You don't believe that we are now in the blessed reign of the Messiah do you?

If you want sheer numbers I suspect there are a lot more christians being persecuted than any other religion. You might assign this to the relative numbers of christians in these third world hell holes, but I am fairly confident my conjecture is true. There are close to 700 million christians forced to worship underground in various countries. There may be as many as 100 million Chinese christians in home cell groups, for example, and probably many more than this in various Muslim countries throughout the world. I would not dismiss persecution so lightly, the persecution of christians has already spread to europe. French christians, for example are being forced out of their churches thanks to Muslim influence and hatred
(see www.worthynews.com... )



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:13 AM
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Don't fool your selves
In Daniel 8, the antichrist is a ( Nasi=leader not king) of the fourth beast that come at the end of time
The first like Lion (France=Lois names of their kings, Lion is their symbol, Napoleon meaning Lion again)
the second Tiger ( England=their symbol)
The third like a bear ( Russia)
The last is (USA), the 11 horn is G w bush the ten Nasi)s before him are all the presidents since US became a super power ie after WW2...?
Something in his left eye, his army like locusts in the desert like in Iraq( revelation 10-11) locusts like scorpions the tail bring out fire and brim stones ( same Revelations of John)

Plunder the land of unwalled gates ( as in Ezekial 39) is the arab land as mentioned in ( Habakuk).
You just put a keyword in google ( antichrist) and see how many posts identify him especially for the number 6!. Good luck using Google if you really did not do that already??!!



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


it may sound like a one world religion to you, but then agian, it sounds like how they pictured the emporer of rome...
an all consuming, multilingual, multinational, multitribal dictatorship. one that seems to have authority over the entire world. sounds a lot like rome during the christian persecution to me...

i've read about some of those prisoners before, and some are actually political prisoners as well. that doesn't list the near genocide of chinese muslims either...
also, the guys who set a qu'ran in fire in a jail cell are getting the same treatment that a prisoner in gitmo would get for lighting up a bible.

i think that christianity isn't overpersecuted, only equally persecuted. i'm not denying any persecution, just saying that christians in the west don't really understand how bad most of the world has it and when they here of someone remotely like them being persecuted, they tend to overreact.



Are you a believer? Perhaps you are a preterist then? My main problem with the preterist position is how they deal with all the scriptures that speak of the triumphant return of the messiah to rule the earth, and the signs that accompany that return. You don't believe that we are now in the blessed reign of the Messiah do you?

If you want sheer numbers I suspect there are a lot more christians being persecuted than any other religion. You might assign this to the relative numbers of christians in these third world hell holes, but I am fairly confident my conjecture is true. There are close to 700 million christians forced to worship underground in various countries. There may be as many as 100 million Chinese christians in home cell groups, for example, and probably many more than this in various Muslim countries throughout the world. I would not dismiss persecution so lightly, the persecution of christians has already spread to europe. French christians, for example are being forced out of their churches thanks to Muslim influence and hatred
(see www.worthynews.com... )


the quick response is that i'm a buddhist. and i recognize christian persecution, however it's more political than religious because many share cell blocks with members of other religions.

the long response is that i've never heard of preterist belief. i also believe that the french have treated the muslims like crap for quite a long time, and that particular group wants a slightly more segregated community so they can preserve their customs. 700 million seems a bit overblown. that means 1/3 of the world's christians are underground. just a bit unbelievable. considering that there are 1.1 billion catholics, that leaves only 1 billion other christians. then you say that 700 million are underground, which means that only 300 million non underground, non catholics live in the world. tiny bit overblown if you ask me.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


the quick response is that i'm a buddhist. and i recognize christian persecution, however it's more political than religious because many share cell blocks with members of other religions.

the long response is that i've never heard of preterist belief. i also believe that the french have treated the muslims like crap for quite a long time, and that particular group wants a slightly more segregated community so they can preserve their customs. 700 million seems a bit overblown. that means 1/3 of the world's christians are underground. just a bit unbelievable. considering that there are 1.1 billion catholics, that leaves only 1 billion other christians. then you say that 700 million are underground, which means that only 300 million non underground, non catholics live in the world. tiny bit overblown if you ask me.


My source is the author of megashift, Jim Rutz, who did an in depth study of the underground church in his recent book. The growth of these small church groups has been just phenomenal throughout Asia and africa and even in the middle east. He calls them apostolics, primarily because church growth has been fueled through outstanding miracles such as the raising of the dead.

Their numbers will easily exceed the combined total of traditional churches including the catholic church within a generation or so. However we must realize that the mainstream christian denominations in the west are all dying and are probably doomed. Their power structure and organization are unscriptural anyway. They will be replaced by the muslim religion, which will hold all the political power eventually. That has been my assertion and others who follow the trends. The antichrist will be muslim and will claim to be the mahdi if the Lord should tarry for more than a generation or two. For all intents and purposes the antichrist will be the mahdi, which is really a demonic title.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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With the percentage of secrets kept by world governments, the anti-christ could have come already, not that we the masses would be paying too much attention, they are more worried about keeping the price of gas under $3.00 a gallon while they sip on their $5.00 Starbucks coffee.

We may not be talking about an individual who wants to rule openly, but just guide the intentions of who they empower to rule over us.

7,300 years from the horsedrawn carriage to the mass production of the Model-T automobile.

67 years from the Model-T Ford to mankind walking on the moon.

Ya, makes perfectly good sense to me, too. Considering their is no reference for comparison ... . .. . . . . .

[edit on 3-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by adnanmuf
Don't fool your selves
In Daniel 8, the antichrist is a ( Nasi=leader not king) of the fourth beast that come at the end of time
The first like Lion (France=Lois names of their kings, Lion is their symbol, Napoleon meaning Lion again)
the second Tiger ( England=their symbol)
The third like a bear ( Russia)
The last is (USA), the 11 horn is G w bush the ten Nasi)s before him are all the presidents since US became a super power ie after WW2...?
Something in his left eye, his army like locusts in the desert like in Iraq( revelation 10-11) locusts like scorpions the tail bring out fire and brim stones ( same Revelations of John)

Plunder the land of unwalled gates ( as in Ezekial 39) is the arab land as mentioned in ( Habakuk).
You just put a keyword in google ( antichrist) and see how many posts identify him especially for the number 6!. Good luck using Google if you really did not do that already??!!


...

Actually U.S. became a superpower after World War 1 but then the great depression hit and no one was technically a super power since the whole world was engolfed in darkness of some kinda, and the Chinese were the first to feel the sword of destruction before WWII from the Japanese, and the Koreans were also made into slaves and such.

All you're statements do not make sense at all when i put them to the test of google... look at all these that fit what you just said.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

In Daniel 8??? I see no word as nasi? what bible are you reading out of because you're either making stuff up or I am blind

www.sacred-texts.com...

Maybe you can clear somethings up here eh?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


the quick response is that i'm a buddhist. and i recognize christian persecution, however it's more political than religious because many share cell blocks with members of other religions.

the long response is that i've never heard of preterist belief. i also believe that the french have treated the muslims like crap for quite a long time, and that particular group wants a slightly more segregated community so they can preserve their customs. 700 million seems a bit overblown. that means 1/3 of the world's christians are underground. just a bit unbelievable. considering that there are 1.1 billion catholics, that leaves only 1 billion other christians. then you say that 700 million are underground, which means that only 300 million non underground, non catholics live in the world. tiny bit overblown if you ask me.


My source is the author of megashift, Jim Rutz, who did an in depth study of the underground church in his recent book. The growth of these small church groups has been just phenomenal throughout Asia and africa and even in the middle east. He calls them apostolics, primarily because church growth has been fueled through outstanding miracles such as the raising of the dead.

Their numbers will easily exceed the combined total of traditional churches including the catholic church within a generation or so. However we must realize that the mainstream christian denominations in the west are all dying and are probably doomed. Their power structure and organization are unscriptural anyway. They will be replaced by the muslim religion, which will hold all the political power eventually. That has been my assertion and others who follow the trends. The antichrist will be muslim and will claim to be the mahdi if the Lord should tarry for more than a generation or two. For all intents and purposes the antichrist will be the mahdi, which is really a demonic title.


before i say anything about the underground churches, i'd like to see the facts and figures, as well as any other evidence via this thread or a U2U.

as for your islamic antichrist theory.
what is so deplorable about islam when compared to christianity?
why is it that the antichrist is never a christian, and always either a muslim or hebrew man?
what is demonic about the term mahdi, the title given to the redeemer of islam?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


before i say anything about the underground churches, i'd like to see the facts and figures, as well as any other evidence via this thread or a U2U.

as for your islamic antichrist theory.
what is so deplorable about islam when compared to christianity?
why is it that the antichrist is never a christian, and always either a muslim or hebrew man?
what is demonic about the term mahdi, the title given to the redeemer of islam?


Concerning the muslims are you serious? Take a look at their culture and their history of death and misery to unbelievers. Here's an article that discusses how mullah's encourage young muslim immigrants to rape western women as good Islamic conquerers for example,
www.frontpagemag.com...

I need not mention the practice of terrorists, killing indiscriminantly the innocent, even from their own religion. No doubt you will cite the inquisition or the crusades and various excesses of the Roman catholic church. These activities can not be considered christian and certainly can not be condoned from the teachings of Jesus. However the teachings of Muhammed are filled with rape pillage and death for non-believers. Their history provides ample evidence of this, they have been unable to coexist peacefully with any other culture.

Fundamentalist christianity on the other hand was a primary factor in the formation of the United States and the idea that all men are created equal before God. A concept well stated in the New Testament I might add.

Finally, concerning the mahdi, you must understand that he is to be a ruthless warlord. Successful in raping and pillaging all who oppose him. The Muslim Hadith and the christian depiction of the antichrist are in agreement here. I recommend sampling this website again. It states the case quite eloquently.
answering-islam.org.uk...

Finally concerning the claims of apostolic growth, I defer to the research of Jim Rutz. He has a website that works every now and then. It's laid out clearly in his book. (I don't think he is paying for enough bandwidth so his site is often offline).
www.megashift.com



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by SevenThunders

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


before i say anything about the underground churches, i'd like to see the facts and figures, as well as any other evidence via this thread or a U2U.

as for your islamic antichrist theory.
what is so deplorable about islam when compared to christianity?
why is it that the antichrist is never a christian, and always either a muslim or hebrew man?
what is demonic about the term mahdi, the title given to the redeemer of islam?


Concerning the muslims are you serious? Take a look at their culture and their history of death and misery to unbelievers. Here's an article that discusses how mullah's encourage young muslim immigrants to rape western women as good Islamic conquerers for example,
www.frontpagemag.com...

I need not mention the practice of terrorists, killing indiscriminantly the innocent, even from their own religion. No doubt you will cite the inquisition or the crusades and various excesses of the Roman catholic church. These activities can not be considered christian and certainly can not be condoned from the teachings of Jesus. However the teachings of Muhammed are filled with rape pillage and death for non-believers. Their history provides ample evidence of this, they have been unable to coexist peacefully with any other culture.

Fundamentalist christianity on the other hand was a primary factor in the formation of the United States and the idea that all men are created equal before God. A concept well stated in the New Testament I might add.

Finally, concerning the mahdi, you must understand that he is to be a ruthless warlord. Successful in raping and pillaging all who oppose him. The Muslim Hadith and the christian depiction of the antichrist are in agreement here. I recommend sampling this website again. It states the case quite eloquently.
answering-islam.org.uk...

Finally concerning the claims of apostolic growth, I defer to the research of Jim Rutz. He has a website that works every now and then. It's laid out clearly in his book. (I don't think he is paying for enough bandwidth so his site is often offline).
www.megashift.com


first of all, are you saying that ISLAM condones these actions, or islamic leaders?

also, are you claiming the sources you provide are objective and unbiased, or do they have a stated agenda?
are they reputable?
are you saying that the bible has no passages condoning genocides, rapes, murder, intolerance, and injustice?
have there been any instances of christians coexisting peacefully with other religions?

where is the mention of the mahdi's rape and pillaging in the quran?
where specifically is the genocide of those that most muslims consider brothers of faith (aka the hebrew people)?

i looked in my electronic copy of the quran, but i can't seem to find them because the citation on the site seems incomprehensible to me, so i need some assitance with those.

do you consider bombing abortion clinics a terrorist act?
how about lynching in the name of god?
why are the crusades considered nonchristian, while terrorism which is based on extremists' interpretation of the quran is muslim?
have you ever taken the time to actually read a quran?

i must agree, fundamentalist christians founding america did believe all men, or to be specific all land owning white protestant MEN, were equal before god.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


first of all, are you saying that ISLAM condones these actions, or islamic leaders?

also, are you claiming the sources you provide are objective and unbiased, or do they have a stated agenda?
are they reputable?
are you saying that the bible has no passages condoning genocides, rapes, murder, intolerance, and injustice?
have there been any instances of christians coexisting peacefully with other religions?

where is the mention of the mahdi's rape and pillaging in the quran?
where specifically is the genocide of those that most muslims consider brothers of faith (aka the hebrew people)?

i looked in my electronic copy of the quran, but i can't seem to find them because the citation on the site seems incomprehensible to me, so i need some assitance with those.

do you consider bombing abortion clinics a terrorist act?
how about lynching in the name of god?
why are the crusades considered nonchristian, while terrorism which is based on extremists' interpretation of the quran is muslim?
have you ever taken the time to actually read a quran?

i must agree, fundamentalist christians founding america did believe all men, or to be specific all land owning white protestant MEN, were equal before god.


Yes I am saying Islamic leaders condone these actions, as does Muhammed himself! Consider these verses from the Koran, the bible of the 'religion of peace',



Fight non-believers
9.123: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah
is with those who guard (against evil).

Kill non-believers
4.89: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among
them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and
take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Killing Idolaters
9.5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free
to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Forcing non-believers to pay tax
9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited,
nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and
they are in a state of subjection.

smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers
8.12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts
of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.


Smite the neck of unbelievers
47.4: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them)
prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and
if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and
(as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

Threat of punishment for not going to war
9.38: O you who believe! What (excuse) have you that when it is said to you: Go forth in Allah's way, you should incline heavily to
earth; are you contented with this world's life instead of the hereafter? But the provision of this world's life compared with the hereafter is
but little.

9.39: If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you, and
you will do Him no harm; and Allah has power over all things.

48.16: Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people
possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if
you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.


How many acts of violence and violent fatwas have we seen coming from the islamic mullahs? Remember Salman Rushdie? remember the fatwas of Osama Bin Laden? You'd have to put your head in the sand not to notice the extreme violence and evil that arises from this demonic cult.



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Hey U2U
us became super power after ww2, check it out ( really super like Great Britain and France before ww2!
read Ezekial 38-9
read Daniel 7 or 8
read Dan 11
According to Daniel 12, Jesus will be back 2011-2012 or ealier.

Read revelation 10-11 the scorpions army in the desert.
the best is Habakuk Pesher in Dead sea scrolls written by non than Jesus Himself ( Essenes means Jesusians since Esa is the original name of Jesus in arameic and hebrew, take it from him. 4QpH is the name of the document in the dead sea scrolls Pesher means Interpretation by the christ himself, since nobody have the authority to interpret holy scripture but a prophet higher then the one who wrote it in the first place Got it



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

first of all, are you saying that ISLAM condones these actions, or islamic leaders? answered

also, are you claiming the sources you provide are objective and unbiased, or do they have a stated agenda? unanswered
are they reputable? unanswered
are you saying that the bible has no passages condoning genocides, rapes, murder, intolerance, and injustice? unanswered
have there been any instances of christians coexisting peacefully with other religions? unanswered

where is the mention of the mahdi's rape and pillaging in the quran?
where specifically is the genocide of those that most muslims consider brothers of faith (aka the hebrew people)? unanswered

i looked in my electronic copy of the quran, but i can't seem to find them because the citation on the site seems incomprehensible to me, so i need some assitance with those.

do you consider bombing abortion clinics a terrorist act? unanswered
how about lynching in the name of god? unanswered
why are the crusades considered nonchristian, while terrorism which is based on extremists' interpretation of the quran is muslim? somewhat answered
have you ever taken the time to actually read a quran? implied

i must agree, fundamentalist christians founding america did believe all men, or to be specific all land owning white protestant MEN, were equal before god.


the most important question there has to do with biblical attrocities.

what about moses commiting genocide, human sacrafice, and condoning rape for his god?

what about in 2 kings, where 102 men are burned to death for believing in the wrong god?

i have over 520 mentions of intolerance annotated in my personal copy of the bible, about 840 acts of either cruelty or violence, and over 1000 biblical accounts of injustice in the name of god (there is some overlap...). so you can't tell me that having a violent and inhumane holy book makes a religion demonic without stating that christianity is demonic.

quick reference to the OT

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you ... Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die." -- Dt.13:6-10

now the NT

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." -- 2 John 7

how about some more fun

"He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him." -- Leviticus 24:16

"Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die." -- 2 Samuel 12:14

2 Chronicles 15:13
Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Judges 11:29-39
Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah ... And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. ... And the LORD delivered them into his hands. And he smote them ... with a very great slaughter. ... And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances. ... I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. ... And ... her father ... did with her according to his vow which he had vowed.

1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus saith the LORD of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

"If a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." -- Leviticus 20:14

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire." -- Leviticus 21:9

Lev.20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

"Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." -- Genesis 38:24

"He that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath. ... And Joshua ... took Achan ... and his sons, and his daughters ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire." -- Joshua 7:15, 24-25

"Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again." -- Psalm 140:10


had enough violence from the bible?



posted on Jan, 3 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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here's a list of the crimes that you can be put to death for in the bible, with citation, though some of it was just mentioned in my last post.

the death penalty:

For Adultery

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death." -- Lev.20:10

For Beastiality

"Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." -- Ex.22:19

"And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast." -- Lev.20:15

"And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." -- Lev.20:16

For Blasphemy

"He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him." -- Lev.24:16

For Breaking the Sabbath

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death." -- Ex.31:14

"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." -- Ex.31:15

"Six days shall work bedone, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death." -- Ex.35:2

For Disobedient children

"He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death." -- Ex.21:15

"He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." -- Ex.21:17

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." -- Lev.20:9

For Homosexuality

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." -- Lev.20:13

For Incest

"And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." -- Lev.20:11

"And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them." -- Lev.20:12

"And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you." -- Lev.20:14

For Murder

"Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." -- Gen.9:6

For Rape Victims who don't cry out loudly enough

"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." -- Dt.22:23-24

For Stealing Slaves

"He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." -- Ex.21:16

For not being a Virgin on the night of the wedding

"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." -- Dt.22:13-22

For Witches

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." -- Ex.22:18

For Worshipping another god

"He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." -- Ex.22:20

source for above biblical quotes: skepticsannotatedbible.com

edit:gave credit where credit was due

[edit on 3-1-2006 by madnessinmysoul]



posted on Jan, 4 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Because of religion they will kill each other. When Jesus returns to the Earth the only ones dying will be the true unbelievers and rebels against God Himself. He will have the final say. The payment of sin is death. So it doesn't matter who's religion is right if all you're doing is killing. This is not what Jesus taught. Jesus taught that God is Judge and we get to decide what our fate will be by our love, or lack of it.

Fromabove



posted on Jan, 4 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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The head of the Roman Catholic Church is the beast. The religeon itself is a lie. They have changed everything even the real calender. April use to be the first month and there were only 360 days in a year. December 25 was a pagan day of worship. They made it Jeasus's birthday. Nowhere does it say in the bible to worship 12/25. And if the 666 is a date then it is in the real 6th month, December.




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