Anything I could come up with would probably take too long to appeal to those who want a solution now, but Ill offer some ideas regardless.

Building upon the free trade system that was established there ought to be some sort of job training/exchange program, where a suitable job market could be built in the Latin nations, making living there more appealing

One method could be to start an FDResque series of national government projects to better improve the nations that these immigrants are running from - it would be a two fold thing, prodiving jobs and hopefully improving the overall region these projects take place in. They can range anywhere from constructing an irrigation system for the vast farmlands, constructing better housing, or highway projects.

Another would be to forge a coalition of sorts dedicated to the eradication of the drug trade, and hopefully diverting the skills many of the farmers/producers learn throughout their experience to something more productive like true agriculture or pharmacy.

Basically, anything that would allow a reconstruction of the Latin economies and make the region more appealing so that the illegals dont have a reason to want to come here.

Those are mine, what would you be willing to do other than construct a wall?

Also, it's really comforting that we can talk about these sorts of things without getting sour about it. I understand your position, I really do, but I can also relate to the situation some of the illegals are in. Some.

My only question is can we do that without bankrupting the US, and without waiting 20 years for the new generation to grow up in this type of system. Because I think it will not convince this current generation not to come to the US.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
My only question is can we do that without bankrupting the US, and without waiting 20 years for the new generation to grow up in this type of system. Because I think it will not convince this current generation not to come to the US.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

That's exactly the problem I spoke of, time is not an infinite resource. I think the increased job markets would lead to further buisness for the US - Closer to home, versus overseas shipping and what not. It might be a timesink, but I would rather see this over a wall!

Sorry I have to disagree with you there, I think the points I proposed in page one are faster, cheaper and less likely to fail then what you are proposing. I’m not saying though that your way wont work.

My mom came through the front door of immigration after she married my dad an American service man. They asked her such questions as "are you now or have you ever been a prostitute" and other embarassing questions. The front door is a long and ardous way to come in the door and for illegal aliens to be able to circumvent that whole process is disgusting. I say build the wall and stop Vicente Fox and his plans to expand Mexican territory to include the southwest.

Cheaper at what cost however?

Disheartening a good portion of the population and gaining further notority with the international community isn't cheap in my opinion. If you're willing to stake our reputation and safety then your plan is the way, but I feel mine simply satisfies all sides, saves us the danger of possible immigrants turned terrorists, but takes longer and requires more effort than yours.

It's all a balance and preference I suppose.

PS: I really wish we had more input on this, because as Westpoint has pointed out, this is a major issue for US Citizens, and needs to be dealt with now - How exactly, is up to us! What do you think?!

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Conquistadork]

Disheartening a good portion of the population and gaining further notority with the international community isn't cheap in my opinion.

See from the way I view things I believe illegal immigrants have no reason to be disheartened, their self affirmed right to come to the US is not legitimate IMO, therefore, I don't take it into consideration. My main concern is looking out for US citizens first, some people may think that's wrong or selfish, I however don't see it that way.

I think that is where we have a problem. We are both looking out for US Citizens first and foremost, but our methods vary. I wish to find a method that would leave the wall out of things, in order to prevent what could one day become a terrorist recruitment zone.

You on the otherhand, are trying to justify this wall by saying it provides safety - physically and economically - right now. Correct me if I'm wrong in saying that.

While I agree that the urgency to cease the flow of Illegals is dire, is it dire enough to risk Mexico or even the Southern US to become an Afghanistanesque recruitment ground? People who feel like they have lost everything are the ones who will resort to the most desperate of actions, and I fear this is one of the many results if a wall should go up.

It has occured althroughout Latin American history, armed insurrection, violence, and while I strongly disprove of it, what's a big ol' clunky wall going to do when the molotovs and AKs hit the streets?

You on the otherhand, are trying to justify this wall by saying it provides safety - physically and economically - right now. Correct me if I'm wrong in saying that.

No, you’re not wrong for saying that. Also, I don't share your view that the South Western US will become a shooting alley. The US government wont allow it to happen, and as I said before if the IM or potential IM think this wall is bad they will be shocked by what measures the government will take if they attack the US. Besides, I don’t think the US should ever give in to threats for doing what is right.

Note - IM = Illegal Immigrants

Perhaps not the Southwestern US, But It really wouldn't surprise me if parts of Mexico or Latin America began harboring these terrorists in response to a wall being put up.

Again, I dont agree with it, but all you have to do is look as far as Venezuela to see the growing dissension amongst Latin America in regards to the US, and I feel putting up a wall - While immediately relieving the situation, will in the long run further damage our international image and allow a new home for those who wish to harm us.

I came to the US the legal way and i have to say, What a ball ache! I don't understand why they make it so difficult for normal people to get in but all these terrorists who are on watch lists get Visa's with no problems.

I'm all for closing the borders, we have enough Mexicans all ready and they are breading like rabbits. Mexicans do contribute to tax's, there is no way that they couldn't. If you buy anything you are paying tax so you can't use that argument. A ton of you yanks don't pay taxes either, go hound on their ass.

Until countries in Latin America find their own way into First World status we cannot sit idly by and let them invade our country and fleece our social systems. The short term thing we need to do is put a military force on the border to enforce law and order. A wall is a little extreme but it will do the job and be damned what the rest of the world thinks. We should focus on our security and prosperity first and our image to everyone else second.

What military force? We're so thinned out we've sent the national guards overseas to the job the army should be doing!

On a serious note, I just hope that when and if this wall does go up, I won't have to come on here and say I told ya so when our ports and coasts come under attack.

Perhaps you're all thinking I mean a full blown military invasion? That's hardly what I mean, I mean Palestinian style guerilla/suicide attacks. It's only one possibility of the many that come with the building of a wall. Hopefully I'm wrong, and nothing happens and it really does solve the IM problem, but I'm not leaveing it out of the realm of a real possibility.

Originally posted by Conquistadork
What military force? We're so thinned out we've sent the national guards overseas to the job the army should be doing!

On a serious note, I just hope that when and if this wall does go up, I won't have to come on here and say I told ya so when our ports and coasts come under attack.

Perhaps you're all thinking I mean a full blown military invasion? That's hardly what I mean, I mean Palestinian style guerilla/suicide attacks. It's only one possibility of the many that come with the building of a wall. Hopefully I'm wrong, and nothing happens and it really does solve the IM problem, but I'm not leaveing it out of the realm of a real possibility.

The only reason we are so thinned as opposed to previous conflicts is because were fighting a global war on terror which requires deployments not only in iraq and afghanistan, and we are doing it with a volunteer force so its not gonna get that large in size to begin with.

Honestly I still don't see the construction of a wall to keep illegals out will suddenly result in palestinians bombing our ports. Its simply too far of a stretch.

I didn't mean Palestinians coming here and bombing our ports

I meant the adaptation of their guerilla/terrorist strategies by the disheartened and betrayed populations this wall would effect. It is evidenced throughout history that those with nothing to lose fight the hardest and resort to the most desperate of actions. For example, the current situation in Palestine. Everything these IMs believe in is here in the US, and if they're suddenly and forcefully stripped of what was claimed to be an inalienable right of all men - their freedom- then they truly have nothing to lose.

Whats to say Javier won't be the new face of terrorism?

Conquistadork with all due respect, I think we should take the risk. Frankly because I think your idea of terrorists is too far fetched and because IMO this illegal immigration has to stop now.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Conquistadork with all due respect, I think we should take the risk. Frankly because I think your idea of terrorists is too far fetched and because IMO this illegal immigration has to stop now.

I think it's safe to say that the idea of a group of 19 untrained Middle Easterners flying planes into buildings was too far fetched before 9/11.

I respect your opinion, but it seems to me that everyone feels the US can survive in a world where they can completely disregard the thoughts of the national community, and that's a rather frightening attitude.

What I say to end the illegal immegration from Mexico, is to start up a Mexican Border Militia. Bascially hire and train anyone that wants to put a stop to illegal immegration. But heres the catch, they have to pay for thier own training. That way the government is only paying for their wages and weapons. I betcha if they started something like that up, many people in the southwest will join up. As to the topic, I think the wall is a good idea, but use it as a last resort. And as for the topic, why is Mexico gonna retailate for something they have no right to.

Mexico as a nation wouldn't retaliate - it's the people I speak of. Mexico wouldn't dare risk a war with the United States, but that doesn't stop the people from acting on their own.

Also, with the border militia, what's to keep some trigger happy Southerner from popping a few IMs

Ever wondered why China has the longest continuous civilization in human history? I think it's partly because they built a huge ass wall. The real question on everyones lips is will this wall be visible from space?

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Trent]