Mexico retaliates for US wall. What?

Westpoint - Consider the state of US foreign relations. Do you truly see this wall as an answer? Alienating a major part of the US population will only create more enemies, and even worse a new brooding den for those who wish to do us harm, right in our own streets and homes.

We have enough enemies as it is, don't you think?

The overwhelming majority of US citizens support putting an end to illegal immigration. Both democrats and republicans support it. I could care less what some other country thinks about our efforts to stop illegal immigration, it’s non of their business.

Cost vs Effectiveness - Would the total cost of construction, manning, maintenance, and an emergency budget really outweigh the current cost of Illegal immigration?

I wholely agree with the fact that the Illegal immigration needs to end - and that corruption on Both sides is keeping this from happening, but again, I feel that alienating a major portion of the population by building this wall and saying "Stay away" is not a good idea.

It provides breeding grounds for those who already wish to cause us harm, in our backyards and right over the borders. Theres more to this the monetary cost, and I dont feel everyones taking that into consideration.

The very best solution for mexico and america is to start a 10 year transition time. During this 10 year transition the following will occur:
Start a guest worker program that includes a fee for working in america. (to fund the agency responsible for the project)
then allow American (and perhaps joint military exercises) to go anywhere in mexico and initiate marshall law.
Then start a network of schools in mexico, that all kids are required to go to until the age of 16 (or else the parents get arrested) these would be on par with US schools.
Then start taxing the guest workers that had worked over a year here.
Then start a police training program run by americans for mexican police.

in short, educate mexico, clean it up, and make it at least no more corrupt than america is... then forget about the borders... take em down.
Then put the signs up that say Welcome to Mexamerica (or maybe Amexico)

seriously... mexican immigration is a bottomless pit, best to just board over it, than to keep trying to fill it up...
Americanize mexico, to save both countries...
Americans like the people, the food, the culture...just not the crime/social/financial problems

Conquistadork what attacks are you talking about?

The only portion of the population that this wall would alienate is the illegal one, and they're not even US citizens they should have no say in out political decisions. As I have said before the majority of US citizens support stopping illegal immigration.

We have the highest mortality rates in the world due to crime right here in the states - could it get much worse?

Originally posted by WestPoint23

We need to make and enforce laws that make it virtually impossible to do anything in this country if you don't have the proper documents showing that you a here legally.

Hunh?? I believe we should do everything to ensure that people immigrate properly, but I don't like the police state you're proposing.

WO SIND SEIN PAPIEREN??!! JAWOHL!

Also, shooting border crossers? C'mon, for chrissakes, no wonder people don't take people who want to control immigration seriously.

Oh, and one more thing, criminal activity (especially drug dealing) accounts for roughly 20% of Mexico's GDP. So, if you're an enterprising drug dealer guess where you go. Where the money is. Gotta love free trade.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Conquistadork what attacks are you talking about?

The only portion of the population that this wall would alienate is the illegal one, and they're not even US citizens they should have no say in out political decisions. As I have said before the majority of US citizens support stopping illegal immigration.

And I too support stopping Illegal immigration. Perhaps I'm not speaking clear enough - English is not my first language.

My point is, if you alienate a major portion of the population, you will create a sense of despair and betrayal in them. I understand they have no political voice, but is it really politics that runs the streets of these nations?

With that despair and betrayal fresh in the hearts of millions of Latin Americans - Legals and Illegals - Some may turn to more drastic solutions. What's to say certain organizations and individuals will not prey upon these emotions? Offering these down trodden people another solution - Weapons, and training to use them. A terrorist isn't simply a Middle Easterner with a bomb in his backpack.

That is what I'm asking people to consider when they want to erect this wall. How do you deal with the millions who will feel betrayed and let down by the nation who exemplifies all their dreams and goals - freedom.

I’m not talking about any police state, all I’m talking about is making living in the US illegally virtually impossible because you wouldn’t be able to do anything without the proper documentation.

OMG I’m seriously going to have a hart attack, people will result to violence because a right which they never had in the first place is being take away from them???


[edit on 20-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Conquistadork

What's to say certain organizations and individuals will not prey upon these emotions? Offering these down trodden people another solution - Weapons, and training to use them. A terrorist isn't simply a Middleasterner with a bomb in a backpack.

That is what I'm asking people to consider when they want to erect this wall...

Wow, a not so thinly veiled threat.

With that despair and betrayal fresh in the hearts of millions of Latin Americans - Legals and Illegals - Some may turn to more drastic solutions. What's to say certain organizations and individuals will not prey upon these emotions?

Actually to tell you the truth I believe only another 9/11 caused by people crossing the US/Mexico border will make US government finally do something about illegal immigration. In the US we like ignore problems until they nip us in the bud. So if these angry illegal aliens attack he US they are sealing their own fate.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I’m not talking about any police state, all I’m talking about is making living in the US illegally virtually impossible because you wouldn’t be able to do anything without the proper documentation.

OMG I’m seriously going to have a hart attack, people will result to violence because a right which they never had in the first place is being take away from them???

[edit on 20-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

People result to violence because they feel what was theirs is being taken away without consideration to their situation.

I make no threats, I love this nation like the next blue- blooded all American boy, I simply wish for people to understand the plight and rammifications if something like this were to happen. The US has kept it's stranglehold on Latin America for far too long. They aided in the establishment of one of my nations most brutal dictators - General Pinochet

I am a 1st Generation Chilean American, and my mother came here legally with my father when they were both teeneagers, and immediately joined the work force. My Father is now a psychologist at various hospitals in the long island jewish health system. My parents came here with a dream of escaping the Military Dictatorship established by the US in order to keep Chile from becoming a communist state.

They came here and owe their lives to this nation - for their escape and their success in life - and I too owe my life to this nation. I do not in anyway support the activities and crimes being committed by Illegal Immigrants, but you have to consider what people will do keep their Dream alive - and if they are presented with an opportunity - who's to say they won't take it?

People result to violence because they feel what was theirs is being taken away without consideration to their situation.

I’m sorry but those people are simply wrong, it was never their right to come here illegally in the first place. So for them to be upset is ridicules. It‘s not like the US is banning all forms of immigration, this country has one of the largest immigration programs in the world. There are many many legal ways you can enter into the US that don't involve hopping a fence.

It is their right to return to their homeland which we brutally took from them - but in this day and age I agree that we cannot simply allow them to come and go as they please, because that can only lead to worse things.

I just ask for a better solution, keeping a wall as a last resort.


How would you feel if someone booted you from your home, forced you back to whatever nation is your parents hail from, and then tell you you can't come back?

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Conquistadork]

It is their right to return to their homeland which we brutally took from them -

Actually they legally signed it over to us for 15 Million, we went to war, we won, and we legally took the land, end of story.
But I agree with you that a wall just by itself wont really do much.

Actually they legally signed it over to us for 15 Million, we went to war, we won, and we legally took the land, end of story.
But I agree with you that a wall just by itself wont really do much.



Since when was war the legal answer to anything?

I do understand your fervor and wish to defend this nation, I share that same vigor, but I ask everyone to consider other methods before taking such drastic action.

The only reason the textbooks say they "Sold it to us" Is to mask the fact that they feared further agression by the US. They were muscled into signing away land they once considered home for the sake of preserving their soverignty. last I checked, agression through any means wasn't the legal way to do things

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Conquistadork]

Illegal immigration is one of the biggest problems this country faces, I think the methods which I am proposing are just and fair.

last I checked, agression through any means wasn't the legal way to do things

Last I checked all humans who don't currently live in Africa got to where they are now through either war or expansionism.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by WestPoint23]

What you say is true, and it will remain to be as long as the US trumpets the virtues of freedom and opportunity. We must find a way to compromise rather than cut off. We all deserve this freedom, that's what this nation was founded on, but I agree with you, it must be earned through legal means.

I just can't stand the thought of a wall - It's so draconian and ancient, why would we move backwards rather than forwards?

Ok then what do you propose? I want to hear some ideas that you have about how we can end illegal immigration.

Originally posted by Dulcimer
The point is that a wall will not solve the issue.

Does anyone truly think that a wall will fix the problem?

Yes.

I guarantee you that if you do the following, the illegal immegration problem will end.

1) build a 15 foot wall 500 yards off our border
2) set up a mine field in front of this wall
3) put snipers and machine gun nests periodically along the wall
4) fly UCAVs and/or helo gun ships along the boarder
5) use these assets to kill anyone who aproaches the wall

After a month of all of the illegals getting shredded to pieces, they will stop coming. I GUARANTEE it.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by American Mad Man]