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Behind the Steel Curtain: The Real Face of the Occupation

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posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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You are so Narrow-Minded - only the Deaths of American Citizens matter to you, yet you pretend to "Care" for the Freedoms and Justice across the World.


Souljah, I have asked you in this thread and others to condemn Terrorists in Iraq and else where who are purposely targeting and killing civilians on a daily basis, yet you haven’t responded, and I doubt you will now.
That leads me to believe that despite your claim that you’re a “Freedom Lover” you don't really give a damn about why or who is killing Iraqi/US citizens etc... All you care about is using their deaths to push your agenda.
Next time you want to call someone narrow minded I suggest looking in the mirror.


Insurgent tactics and strategies vary widely, as well as the type of targets insurgents attack. Raids are amongst most common actions taken by insurgent in a dominated state of province. In addition, insurgents establish ties with other outlaws and double agents to further their goals. Some militants can also be sponsored by competing or enemy state governments. Some elements of an insurgency may use bombs, kidnappings, hostage-taking, hijackings, shootings and other types of violence to target the establishment's power structure and other facilities with little regard for civilian casualties.


You can read the distinguished record of terrorists here, if you have any doubts about our claims.


This Poster is Especially for mister WestPoint23.


That poster is absolutely meaningless, just another PR attempt by whoever made it.

[edit on 30-12-2005 by WestPoint23]




posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Souljah, I have asked you in this thread and others to condemn Terrorists in Iraq and else where who are purposely targeting and killing civilians on a daily basis, yet you haven’t responded, and I doubt you will now.

War IS Terrorism.

And United States Wage Wars for Fifty Years.

Did Iraq attack United States?

Did Vietnam invade United States?

Did Afganistan land in United States?

Did Nicaragua send covert intelligence agents to ignite terrorist guerrillas?

Now, ask yourself, have the United States attacked these Countries?



That leads me to believe that despite your claim that you’re a “Freedom Lover” you don't really give a damn about why or who is killing Iraqi/US citizens etc...

How many people have the United States "Freed" in their Quest for Democracy and Justice for All?

How many have I?

I do not Drop Smart Bombs on people who Disagree with me - I use Arguments.

Can't you Understand, that by Violently Solving Problems, you actually create More of that Violence.

Violent means will give violent freedom.

The United States are Responsible for the Circle of Violence, which has been Started in Iraq and the Middle East; they have installed a Dictator, supported him in his quest for Weapons of Mass Destruction, helped him to win a war against Iran and then they Removed him - and now that means a Civil War Scenario for Iraq.

Now, do you think that the Military Strategists in the did not think about that?

I am sure that the PNAC has a Nice Idea for Everybody on this Planet to "Get Along"!




posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah

War IS Terrorism.

So is bullying, using any force is terrorism.



How many people have the United States "Freed" in their Quest for Democracy and Justice for All?

Almost all of western europe.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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Souljah all that response and you couldn't even bring yourself to do what I asked?
I knew you were going to switch the topic when all you had to do is accept that terrorists purposely kill civilians. Whether in war or not that is not justifiable.


[edit on 30-12-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah


I do not Drop Smart Bombs on people who Disagree with me - I use Arguments.

Can't you Understand, that by Violently Solving Problems, you actually create More of that Violence.


Let me say something about these two lines:


First line
Argument : a demonstration of a proof, or using logical reasoning for persuasion.

Propaganda a specific type of message presentation directly aimed at influencing the opinions of people, rather than to impartially provide information.

You may want to go back and edit this post and place the word "propaganda" instead of arguments. You see this is because with arguments you use facts,stats and legit sources while also actively engaging the other persons arguments.

Your incapable of doing that.

Notice I'm using one liners.

This is propaganda.

This is how you post.

Everyone sees its a joke.

Ok now on to the second line

Actually solving violent problems with military action actually does fix violent situations. I remember it fixed taxation without representation, slavery, oh and just a little thing called the holocaust and nazi occupation of Europe

Sometimes it takes violent means to overcome the evil in the world.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
How many people have the United States "Freed" in their Quest for Democracy and Justice for All?

How many have I?

I do not Drop Smart Bombs on people who Disagree with me - I use Arguments.


With all the respect to you Soul I think it would be a good idea to go out and get some fresh air.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Agent47
You may want to go back and edit this post and place the word "propaganda" instead of arguments. You see this is because with arguments you use facts,stats and legit sources while also actively engaging the other persons arguments.

Ah yes - but what are FACS and STATES from LEGIT Sources?

For your Taste Legit means .gov, .mil sources - which are far away from being non-biased and far from not being Soaked in some crappy Pro-War Propaganda.

But, I guess all the Facts, Stats and Sources I will post, will be rated "Non-Valid" by you and your fellow military members.

There is really no way to explain my point, since your "Tolerance" does not allow you to accept my sources as VALID.

Only YOUR Sources are Valid and only THEY have the FACTS, known to be the Truth - and those Facts NEVER ever go against the Army or the Military Complex.

It's kindof arguing with an American Football fan, that Soccer is Better.



Notice I'm using one liners.

This is propaganda.

Notice OTHER members using One Liners - such as Majic.

Wanna acuse him of Propaganda also?

OR Will you Skip that?



This is how you post.

Everyone sees its a joke.

Who's EVERYONE?

You and your fellow Marines?

You and your fellow Soldiers?

You and your fellow Military Personell who keep this Board in Check and Under Control all the time?

Yes, I know how you Function:

First they Ignore you.

Then they they Laught at you.

Then they Attack you.

Then You Win.


by Mahatma Gandhi

And THAT is how the MAJORITY of the "Debates" or Arguments are being peformed here.

Wanna find yourself on that?



Actually solving violent problems with military action actually does fix violent situations.

Is that how your Military Manual says, huh?


Oh, and a Happy New Year 2006!

May Wisdom finally visit your Goverment.



[edit on 31/12/05 by Souljah]



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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Going to comment on my post or ignore it?
Mabye then laugh at it?
Mabye then attack it?
Then I'll win?



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Going to comment on my post or ignore it?
Mabye then laugh at it?
Mabye then attack it?
Then I'll win?

Naaaaah - I don't Attack.


Altho I am puzzled which post do you want me to comment.

You seem to like to have the Last Word, huh?




posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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souljah,
this last post of yours.... is it not reminescent of a pot calling the fettle black?
did you not accuse another poster on another thread that their source was un-biased? Notice, I have never used .mil, .gov sites to counter your facts; but then again, you lately just ignore them, don't respond to questions or even go off on another track once you can no longer successfully support what ever thought process that is currently occupying your thoughts.



You and your fellow Military Personell who keep this Board in Check and Under Control all the time?

I / we do?? I wonder if the three amigos would agree with that? Shall we ask them to respond to this last tangent of yours.



And THAT is how the MAJORITY of the "Debates" or Arguments are being peformed here.

Nah, as stated above.... you ignore, you go off onto another tangent or you just start up another thread....



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Naaaaah - I don't Attack.


No you just cut and run.


Altho I am puzzled which post do you want me to comment.

You seem to like to have the Last Word, huh?


The one above westy's I believe.



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Yes, I know how you Function:

First they Ignore you.

Then they they Laught at you.

Then they Attack you.

Then You Win.


by Mahatma Gandhi

And THAT is how the MAJORITY of the "Debates" or Arguments are being peformed here.

Wanna find yourself on that?



Actually solving violent problems with military action actually does fix violent situations.

Is that how your Military Manual says, huh?


Oh, and a Happy New Year 2006!

May Wisdom finally visit your Goverment.



[edit on 31/12/05 by Souljah]


Your nothing like Ghandi. Ghandi used real ideas not speculation, blind hatred, and propaganda to prove his point.

Souljah I don't think you've beaten anyone in this thread. Beyond attacking the fact I'm in the military you haven't really adressed anyone elses points in this thread. Such as devilwasp, riwka, and west point just to name a few.

And if you want to there is a debate forum.We could always have a structured debate there. If you believe you've beaten everyone here.

[edit on 12/31/2005 by Agent47]



posted on Jan, 1 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Most military people - and religious fanatics don't question authority- Therefore they cannot change their 'opinion' on anything once they accept the facts as 'GOSPEL' . True faith followers question their faith, and then make question it again- it doesn't mean they lose faith! True soldiers question the validity of an order- they must follow the chain of command, but that doesn't mean they HAVE to follow an order they think is outrageous- it does mean they are accountable for not following it to the next higher in command though.

But most military and fanatics are too lazy or haven't been taught critical thinking skills- and so the majority are too stuck in their closemindedness to accept legit facts counter to their beliefs. I have to admit, it is difficult to question and research sources of information.

If you want to comapre propaganda just go to The National Review for the right wing- and go to thousandreasons.org for the left. It seems that the only choice for 2006 is extreme right and LITE right.



posted on Jan, 1 2006 @ 11:32 PM
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'.... American Empire NEVER gave a Damn about the People they were going to "Rescue" - Human Lives and Human Cost does not Matter; it only Matters that they are "Liberated" adn that they have a "Democratic" Country


REPLY: I think you should ask your ancestors if that is factual; in fact ask most of europe.

I see you have yet to reply to the important parts of my post, from which you quoted previously... it's on page 8 of this thread:

What are your ideas for peace? Name me one time when peace was won by negotiations? If you HAVE to fight for freedom, as your name suggests, what will you use? Will it be made by a company who makes things for free and pays it's workers nothing? Someone will profit from manufacturing any product. What ideals and ideas of freedom will you impose?

It is the American soldier that won you your freedom to hate. My grandparents came from Belgium, and I have relatives from Germany, so I have people who were in Europe during WW2, and have heard many, many hours of stories, and saw many hundreds of pictures from those who told of what the US military did for them, and how they were loved for their sacrafices.

Contrary to what you believe, your longevity on the ATS forum does not make your threads your own, 'nor does it make your views the correct ones. History, and hundreds of thousands of immigrants shows you are wrong.

I will allow you one more chance to answer my post, some questions from which are above..... then I will choose to "deny ignorance." I will have to search for any of your posts condeming the actions of Saddam or Castro..... but I doubt there are any.

Soon your threads will only contain posts from those who believe in your views, or perhaps only your posts exclusively... then you will be in a state of Nirvana, as everyone will agree with you 8^)



posted on Jan, 1 2006 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by accountability
I mean terrorists deserve to die- don't they? Remember the ALAMO- i mean remember 9-11- (which didn't have anything to do with IRAQ) We know what's best for Americans- steal their money, lower their standard of living, and give all the tax breaks to the rich.

I guess the Christian coalition and BushCo believe that might will conquer all- instead of 'love your enemy'

If insurgents kill civilians- ITS CALLED CIVIL WAR!!!!!! Americans are killing civilians, and NOT KURDS- Insurgents are killing Iraqi policemen. If 15 policemen died here in the states you would hear about it wouldn't you???? It happens in Iraq on a regular basis, but you don't hear about it in the mainstream news, because it would be bad for BUSHCO's image.

One other thought- before I close- They always say how many men have died in this war against terrorism- but they never say how many women? I guess women have a better survival rate in the US armed forces-


REPLY: The Alamo? Terrorists? I don't recall anyone of sane mind calling Mexicans terrorists.

You obviously have yet to check pther threads that contain links to how Al-Queda had contacts with Saddam and his sons. I'll give you a hint: do a search on ATS for "mother of all connections."

You most definately haven't seen how good the economy is, or checked to see where most of the money went from the reductions in tax rates (there were no "tax breaks".... or seen where the standard of living has risen, which it has every time the government has reduced the cost of economic activity.

I'll ask you the same I asked Souljah: Name me a time where peace was won through negotiations... where "love your enemy" has worked.

No... of course we're not killing Kurds... unless we're strapping on bombs, or bombing Iraqi civilians, policemen or soldiers. And you sure havent been following the news media as to what they publish. Every time there is a roadside bombing or suicide bomb, it's all over the news. Just an hour ago.... well... never mind; it was on the radio and many other outlets. When soldiers are killed or injured, it mentions soldiers... not separating men or women; The (communist) ACLU would be all over them for womanizing.

And. actually you are correct in that women have a better survival rate, being that 99% of them (good soldiers, and God bess every one) are not on the front lines, and usually have very important jobs doing intel or supply work.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 04:15 AM
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The "real" face of the "occupation"? Hmmm... let's see. Schools being rebuilt, water and waste lines being repaired, then soon after being damaged by the wonderful lads and ladettes of the "Insurgency". The face of the occupation is American and coalition troops on the streets giving out treats to the children around them, and then having to clean up the body parts of those same children, because some sociopathic madman has decided that in order to kill one or two soldiers he needs to kill a dozen or more children. That is the true picture of the occupation, spin it as you will, and I am sure you, or somewone like you will do so.



posted on Jan, 2 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Seagull: You are correct, and I have posted links in this or another thread that gave extensive lists of all the good things that are happening in Iraq. Much what is being done is not "rebuilding" at all, but actually building infractructure that never existed.

The coalition is long past occupation; it is now liberation... and has been for at least a year. At least that's what the Iraqi people think, and it's their opinions that matter most.

Talk about conspiracy.... I wonder if Souljah actually works for the NSA or CIA, and is baiting people who think as he (supposedly) does, so the intel agencies can check them out? 8^)

(edited for content)

[edit on 2-1-2006 by zappafan1]



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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Souljah the real face of the occupation is my little brother who risked his life for Iraqi freedom as well as ours. The same soldier who gave small children his water and food because they were hungrey and thirsty. That is the true and common face of your so called occupation. The Iraqis he met were and are glad we are there. I have to respect your right to your opinion no matter how misguided it may be it is after all the reason I myself served in the United States Navy. So while you are spouting your venom remember it is people like my brother and me who make sure all people can speak their minds.



posted on Jan, 6 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Hello to a true (and fellow) Fighter for Freedom. Forget Souljah. You notice that he has not, and cannot, respond intelectually to our most recent posts. And to think my father fought, and many, many died in Europe, for him to be free to hate us, and the U.S., as he does. No..... he's off starting other hate America threads, and will undoubtedly claim OTHER PEOPLE won't reply to his posts.

His attitude is not something one is born with, it is something that is taught. The same thing goes on here in many schools and colleges. So sad.

This thread should read" My views of the Iraq war."
Actually, it wasn't against the Iraqi people but to get rid of Saddam. It's no longer an occupation, but a liberation, as the iraqi people feel. Some don't know the difference.

(edit for content)

[edit on 6-1-2006 by zappafan1]



posted on Jan, 7 2006 @ 04:43 AM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
Hello to a true (and fellow) Fighter for Freedom. Forget Souljah. You notice that he has not, and cannot, respond intelectually to our most recent posts. And to think my father fought, and many, many died in Europe, for him to be free to hate us, and the U.S., as he does. No..... he's off starting other hate America threads, and will undoubtedly claim OTHER PEOPLE won't reply to his posts.

Hello!

You know, the number of Fallen US Soldiers in WWII is around 420.000.

While the people of Yugoslavia, had to pay with 1.100.000 Lives - my GrandFather Inlcuded.

And let's not Forget the people of Soviet Union, to which the Europe has to be Really Thankful for their Liberaton and Freedom from the Nazi Occupation, for they PAID far LARGER price then ANY other Nation in the World: 23 Million Lives!

So, Pretty Please, with Sugar on Top, STOP taking all the Credit, will you?

Thanks!




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