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Behind the Steel Curtain: The Real Face of the Occupation

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posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Mabye you'd prefer if they were neutral then?
Dont get involved in ANYTHING, but no ofcourse not even then they do wrong.

Well, there shouldbe Universal JUSTICE - not just Justice for "Some" and for "Others" not.

That is not Exactly Helping to bring the Ballance of IN-Justice back.

Did the British Empire in its Mightiest Days Spread JUSTICE across the Globe?ž

Or Roman?

Or French?

Or ANY Empire?

What is the Main Export of Empires?

PEACE?




posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Souljah,



United States EXPORT War.

Let me guess, 9/11 was all US right?
The bombing attacks on the US embassies in africa was the US?
The bombing of the USS Cole was the US?




Tell me - why is it that EVERYTIME that Coalition troops kill civilans that is called either:
1. a MISTAKE

2. an ACCIDENT

3. COLLATERAL DAMAGE

Question, what do your al Zakawi call all the deaths that he and his git cause to the civilians not only in Iraq but in other countries such as Jordan. OOPs sorry, did not mean that?

Yes, there are casualties in any war. These casualties are not made by just one side, it takes two forces to fight not one. You so love to degrade and debase the us forces as well as the us citizens, and yet ignore the hatred and deaths that your heros cause to innocents not only in their own lands but those of other nations.

I also have countered many of your statements as well as suppositions but of late you seem to ignore posting where I either prove you wrong, or like the thread on the us news minimizing what is going on in iraq...i show you that your great and noble heros, are not above the same editing of the news that you decry against america.
I will again suggest to you that if you really and truely wish to have more substance to your belief of the great satan that is known as the us, then you need to actually address both sides of the coin. not just proclaim one side as fact and ignore the otherside of the coin. By continuing down this path, all that you are doing is undermining the strength of anything news that you are trying to get out to the world.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 11:56 AM
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".... The rules of engagement are not made public due to security concerns. But Iraqi civilians have a right to know the guidelines for safe behavior. The coalition should mark all checkpoints clearly, for instance, and inform Iraqis through a public service campaign of how to approach checkpoints and how to behave during raids."

REPLY: Yes, I've been to iraq. As to the above 99% of the checkpoints are well lit (at night) and have large signs, in two or three languages, describing exactly what you mention.

PS: I noticed you didn't prove false anything in my posts, whereas I provided links in this thread to many good things happening in Iraq.

Souljah (proud member of Americas Fifth Collumn) ... read my signature, as it applies very well.

To think I put my a$$ on the line to provide you with the freedom to spout drivel. As you mentioned college in one of your posts, which college did you attend? I'm just curious as to where you learned such bias and hate.

To many others, "Deny Ignorance" ..... and use the "ignore" option.

Mod Edit: Removed Excessive Bolding.

Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: You Have A U2U- Click Here.



[edit on 29/12/2005 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by aape
Erm i didn´t say that IED´s are a hoax. "Have you somekind of link about explosive pepsi cans in iraq?-D"
If that was what you meant. I just said that you must not blindly believe that every bombing is made by same men. To me it just seems so weird that freedom fighters would blow up their own country men on purpose. Because they must understand that such actions will only bring more hate towards "insurgency", and i believe people in iraq would want other countries to come and help to stop the occupation in iraq. I admit i started on this thread on wrong foot, but it´s very hard to be neutral on this kind of subject.
-aape

[edit on 21-12-2005 by aape]


REPLY: The vast majority of the insurgents are not Iraqis, and therefore do not care how many Iraqis are killed. The rest are made up of Saddams old Baathist Socialist buddies.

If firefighters fight fires, and crimefighters fight crime, then what (in most cases), do freedom fighters fight?



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 12:01 PM
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I am new here.

i have watched alot of people here bash America and Americans for along time.

I am a proud American. I currently live in Taiwan. I encounter alot of disrespect from the other westerners here (mostly Canadians).

I always say the same to them : Wehn your country becomes the most powerful nation on earth i might listen to your whinning, until then...........



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Well, there shouldbe Universal JUSTICE - not just Justice for "Some" and for "Others" not.

And to acomplish this we need to work together in a single force, yes no?
[qutoe]
That is not Exactly Helping to bring the Ballance of IN-Justice back.

What is not helping?


Did the British Empire in its Mightiest Days Spread JUSTICE across the Globe?ž

In its mightiest days we WERE the globe, hell we conqueared a 1/4th of it.
And to answer your questuion in its mightiest days we didnt give a crap , or are you saying human minds have not changed in over 200 years?


Or Roman?

Or French?

Or ANY Empire?

What is the Main Export of Empires?

PEACE?

Who cares about empires?

The UK is last empire around, hell and look whats left of it. Several countries and a few islands.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Who cares about empires?


He’s trying to say that the US is the new Empire and we’re destroying everything in the world. I know, I know, it ridicules but let him be, he won't listen otherwise.

Food for Thought

Souljah did you know that your current thinking is in line with the Nazi propaganda machine of the 1940’s? Like what you see below? It‘s a German propaganda poster from 1944, enjoy.



[edit on 29-12-2005 by WestPoint23]



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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I determined pages ago in this thread (And others) that Souljah just wants to see things his way and just wants to hate on the United States - despite the facts, despite his weak arguments, despite his lack of evidence to support any of his claims.
He just simply wants to hate the U.S. and there is nothing that any of us can do about it. So let him be.

He has marginalized himself and demonstrated to everyone paying attention that he cannot engage in honest, intellectual debate. He has shown his resounding bias and has allowed his hate of the U.S. to interfere with his ability to be either rational or realistic.
As a result those who do not share in his perverted view of the world should simply ignore him. Do what I am about to do once I send this post - Add him to your "Ignore" list. Problem solved.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 04:47 PM
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Souljah has stated time and time again that he does not hate the USA...his gripe is with the Bush Administration and the policy it is presenting. He's not alone. What happens all the time on here is that when Souljah makes a post, most people don't even read it or reply anything to do with what he has stated. Instead, they make childish attacks on him and anyone that agrees with him. Isn't there an ATS rule about personal attacks? C'mon people. Grow up. Debate the issues he brings up, which are important issues. Doesn't matter if you don't like what his posts say, but to personally attack him is childish. Don't shoot the messanger.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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If as you say, he simply against the government and thier policy.
Why generalise and point the finger at america?
Why not say "the american government" or is that one too many words?

Come on, please dont be naive.



posted on Dec, 29 2005 @ 05:12 PM
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Souljah,
may indeed state that he is not anti america, but his words andf postings have consistently denied the veracity of his statements of not being anti american.
let give you a couple of nice examples, a few weeks back, there were a couple of threads that were created by various members our of respect for 1) us veterans day, and 2) the marine corps birthday, 3) a thread that was created to show the good that american soldiers were doing in iraq.
If you have any doubts what's so ever about mr souljahs true intentions, review his postings and his agenda will become well known.
Another way that dear souljah displays his anti american agenda is a recent thread were he decries the american media for minimizing events in iraq. any postings that disagreed with his outlook, souljah decried as being off topic.
I posted a news article that showed how his own sources were minimizing events in iraq to fit their own agenda.... mr. souljah has yet responded to that post which was made 2 weeks ago.
the true steel curtain that is around here is the one that souljah surrounds himself with to block out anything that is pro american or anything that denounces the insurgents / terrorists.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
the true steel curtain that is around here is the one that souljah surrounds himself with to block out anything that is pro american or anything that denounces the insurgents / terrorists.

I thought that the STEEL CURTAIN that was raised by the US Propaganda Machine during the Years, was not as Thick and Tall.

How many Corruptions, Scandals and Deceptions must your Goverment Do, so that You would Realize the "Nobility" of the Bush Administration?

You know it deep inside, that I am Right, you just do not want to Admit it.

Well - someday maybe.


This Poster is Especially for mister WestPoint23.




posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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Thank you souljah!
you have once again proven my point with that last post!



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Let me guess, 9/11 was all US right?
The bombing attacks on the US embassies in africa was the US?
The bombing of the USS Cole was the US?

Oh yes - those 3 Events are the CornerStone of the War on Terror, and they MUST be Repeated Numerous Times, so that the American Public KNOWS how Evil the Terrorists are and how GOOD the United States are, that save the World from this Evil Scourge.

That my Friend, is thinking in ABSOULTES.

Do you want a list of ALL bombs dropped on Foreign Countries by United States Armed Forces?

Do you want a number of Dead Civilans, caused by an Attack on a Foreign Country.

You are so Narrow-Minded - only the Deaths of American Citizens matter to you, yet you pretend to "Care" for the Freedoms and Justice across the World.

Sure.





The United States has over 700 bases in 130 countries. As of April 2005, 146,000 US troops were actively serving in Iraq, and thousands of special forces were fighting in the "war on terrorism" in Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Africa and other regions. Back at home, the US government openly threatens Syria and Iran while covertly supporting coups, protests and uprisings in other countries, such as Venezuela and Kyrgyzstan. Washington defends its military expansion and interventions in the name of fighting terrorism and spreading democracy. However, as critics often point out, these interventions probably increase the threat of terrorism. The pattern of US interventions does not show support for democracy either. Instead, as a prominent study by the Library of Congress has shown, US interventions tend to have undemocratic results. Often they install tough military regimes that pay little heed to their people, privileging cozy relations with Washington and support for its economic and geostrategic interests.

American Empire NEVER gave a Damn about the People they were going to "Rescue" - Human Lives and Human Cost does not Matter; it only Matters that they are "Liberated" adn that they have a "Democratic" Country.

And let's not start with the Corruption and Warprofiting in the Bush Administration.

Tell me, why do people of Middle East Deserve to be "Liberated" and people of Africa do not?



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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Islamic Terrorist's have carried out more than 3912 deadly terror attacks since 9/11, they are why we are at this point !!
www.thereligionofpeace.com...



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:19 AM
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".... To follow me Around and Counter every single Thread I make?"

REPLY: No... I have better things to do. Did you mean every thread, or every post?

".... And why exactly are you diverting this Topic to yet AGAIN talk about me?"

REPLY: You just trapped yourself. So..... now you know what it's like for FOX news..... you and others decry Fox, and blanket statements are made concerning the network, instead of debating what they say, or proving it wrong.

".... Anyway, I have a Question for You:
Have YOU ever been in a War? Well, was this WAR ever at your Front Door?
In your Home? Did Tanks roll down your Street? Have Choppers circled your House? I think not."

REPLY: Actually, yes, all of those things have happened when on duty in other countries. As for that happening in America, No... and it is because I, and others like me, have worked hard and long to prevent it from happening, and will continue to do so.

".... You know what's the Problem here? United States EXPORT War. Commodity of US is War. Just like Democracy is nothing but a Commoity to Export - like Coca-Cola. Sorry - I see nothing Noble there."

REPLY:In one instance you are correct.... democracy is something Americans LIKE to export (oh... and don't forget all the food and thousands of other things). We've done it for a hundred years, and a large part of that is also freedom and liberty to people in other countries. Ask those in Germany and Britain and most of Europe. We don't export war.... we don't like war, but we respond to the needs of countries who face tyranny and death in the hands of regimes and governments, and it costs us lives and and a large part of our treasure to do it. But we usually do it when asked, or we respond when the people of those countries are unable to do it for themselves. And we do it proudly, and with GREAT honor.

One other country we helped liberate is France; is that the problem here? .... you live in France? ..... a country whose only war they won was against themselves? ..... whose best army (the Foreign Legion) was comprised of people from other countries, because the French felt war.... defending themselves, was somehow beneath their dignity?

No, Souljah, I don't follow just your threads. I peruse those threads of interest in which I wish to see the opinions of others, that I might gain some insight or knowledge on a given subject as they relate to my views. If someone presents information that would prove my views in error, then I will say "I was wrong", and go through my day feeling good, because I have learned something. If I read a post that presents only one viewpoint, without considering both sides of the issue, then I will post and provide links to whatever information I might have..... not just to be in opposition to anyone, but to try and bring both sides of an issue to light. That's my idea of a good forum, where people can learn from others... not just to present my own view without the slightest tolerance for opposing views.

I actually agree with some of your views on certain issues. The idea of world peace is a wonderful idea, but it will never happen while humans are on the face of the earth. Peace has never been won through negotiations, it has only been won through victory by one side or the other. It should never be the first response, and usually never is; but it is usually what results, and it is, unfortunately, sometimes the only alternative.

The idea that every culture in the world is somehow on the same level, or has the same values, is patently false, but I sometimes think that that is your view. If you have some magic formula by which we can attain world peace, while ensuring the liberty and true freedom of every country worldwide, than I wish you would share it with us; and I mean that sincerely. It would make you unbelieveably rich, and world reknown. You would have provided something that no one else has ever done. I wish that could be so, but it just won't happen, unfortunately. There will always be those who feel they were born to lead and conquer, whose need for power trumps that of freedom, and it is those people who must not stand, for they stand in the way of the freedom and diginity of their own people.

As of yesterday I wanted to know where you live..... not just the country, but your actual address. I quite literally wanted to beat some sense into you (and I assure you I could make it so). But then I realised that all I really wanted to know was where you live... where and by whom you were taught the hatred you have for America, a country who has sacrificed so much for people they don't know, and many of which they will probably never meet. I think that is the feeling of many who reply to your posts.

As self-proclaimed "freedom fighter", the name itself indicates a willingness to fight for freedom... but to fight how, with what; with what goals and ideals... and for whom?



[edit on 30-12-2005 by zappafan1]



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Islamic Terrorist's have carried out more than 3912 deadly terror attacks since 9/11, they are why we are at this point !!
www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Wow.

Now that is some Serious Source for Non-Biased information about Terrorism.


And you want to Deny Ignorance with that Arguement in your hand?



So much Terrorist Paranoia on one Site - how Nice.



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:35 AM
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civil war- whether occupied or not- is killing many ragheads. if you don't have to look at the destruction- you don't have to think about it. Just think as you are supposed to- and nobody will have any bad feelings like remorse, shame, or guilt. I mean terrorists deserve to die- don't they? Remember the ALAMO- i mean remember 9-11- (which didn't have anything to do with IRAQ) Maybe some more Americans are waking up to the 'government knows best' trick of 'we lied to you because you wouldn't support us if you knew' We know what's best for Americans- steal their money, lower their standard of living, and give all the tax breaks to the rich. YOU've been raped and most of you don't even feel it- yet.....
The strategy for victory is to use tanks or bombers against people who blow themselves up. I like the bumper sticker I saw last week- it said PRIDE IS A SIN. Taking pride in blowing up 'the enemy' just feeds certain peoples' ego's. I guess the Christian coalition and BushCo believe that might will conquer all- instead of 'love your enemy'

If insurgents kill civilians- ITS CALLED CIVIL WAR!!!!!! Americans are killing civilians, and NOT KURDS- Insurgents are killing Iraqi policemen. If 15 policemen died here in the states you would hear about it wouldn't you???? It happens in Iraq on a regular basis, but you don't hear about it in the mainstream news, because it would be bad for BUSHCO's image.

One other thought- before I close- They always say how many men have died in this war against terrorism- but they never say how many women? I guess women have a better survival rate in the US armed forces-



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
As of yesterday I wanted to know where you live..... not just the country, but your actual address. I quite literally wanted to beat some sense into you (and I assure you I could make it so). But then I realised that all I really wanted to know was where you live... where and by whom you were taught the hatred you have for America, a country who has sacrificed so much for people they don't know, and many of which they will probably never meet. I think that is the feeling of many who reply to your posts.

Ah yes - I imagined that the Final Solution would be, VIOLENCE yet again!

Oh I have seen that happen before, don't worry you are not the First.

I will take that as a Threat.

But if you really wanna know where I live and come and visit me, please do!

You will have to go down to Slovenia, once a part of Yugoslavia.

But what does that matter to you anyway - and what does it have to do with the Topic?

If you have a problem with me I suggest you take it to the Moderators via U2U or you can send me some Fan mail also.

Cheers!



As self-proclaimed "freedom fighter"...

Read again, what it says under my Name, Mister.



[edit on 30/12/05 by Souljah]



posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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Dear souljah,
nice editing there. as you well know, that was in response to your posted assumption that the us was never attacked by these heros of yours. here let me
help remind you of the following


United States EXPORT War.


you accused the US of only exporting war, and yet, when it is pointed out that your assumption is incorrect, and that your heros were the ones to have exported war (to use your own words) to the US. you dismiss this as only thinking in ABSOULTES
You know you picked the wrong word for your attack
I actually will take this as a complement
Here is a nice definition of the word absolute



Absolute is from the Latin absolutum, meaning "freed," "unloosed," and is, therefore, an exact English parallel of the Sanskrit philosophical term moksha or mukti, and more mystically of the Sanskrit term so commonly found in Buddhist writings especially, nirvana -- an extremely profound and mystical thought.

absolute definition of
So thank you for the compliment!




You are so Narrow-Minded - only the Deaths of American Citizens matter to you, yet you pretend to "Care" for the Freedoms and Justice across the World.


Alas dear souljah, you have once again forgotten my background if you can sit there and make that statement! Need I remind you that I have spent time in Lebanon, in Iraq during the Gulf War, as well as in Grenada. This plainly denies the assumption that you have once again assigned to me.But this may be another example how closely you wear your blinders to the world.



American Empire NEVER gave a Damn about the People they were going to "Rescue" - Human Lives and Human Cost does not Matter; it only Matters that they are "Liberated" adn that they have a "Democratic" Country.


That dear sir, is once again just your interpetation. Ask any soldier that is presently serving in Iraq or afghanistan what they are there for for your answer.
As I have sad in the past, you refuse to even acknowledge any good that is done in iraq or anywhere else in the world by any american espeicially a servicemember. You have denied as well as undermined such information as (again in your words) the American Propaganda Machine.




And let's not start with the Corruption and Warprofiting in the Bush Administration.

On this one topic we agree on, but this is not news to anyone. War has always been profitable to the elite. Corruption has alway been there when you talk about any goverment. Now I do admit that you home country is not as corrupt as many, but it still places 47 out of 90 according to the World Bank so even your home is not above corruption and profiteering. Instead of just demonizing the americans, how about cleaning up your own home first.




Tell me, why do people of Middle East Deserve to be "Liberated" and people of Africa do not?

Good question if a bit off topic
How about asking the UN about this since they are the ones that are supposed to be trying to resolve all the issues on that contenient. What do you want american to do? The US citizen already is donating more than 15 times the amount that the entire contient of Europe does! US Donations to Africa
Many of the goverments that are in "control" of these beleagured nations in Afirca are some of the most corrupt in the world. What do you think the US should do? Go in and take out the goverments there and help set up a new democratic one? Oh wait a second that is what the US is doing in Iraq and in Afghanistan which is what you are decrying so loudly about. So..... What is your big idea?

Edited to add:
Post Number: 1889893
Your response there Souljah is classical of your style. Here a poster, provides a link that shows yout heros as the rest of the world see them and what do you do? Now that is some Serious Source for Non-Biased information about Terrorism
So the posters source has less credibility than your oft-quoted al-jazeer?


[edit on 30-12-2005 by kenshiro2012]



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