I think jesus was an alien..dont you?

Originally posted by Briggs


You can spin it anyway you want . I dont think he cares as long as you get what he is trying to say.

I agree with you on this...what he said was important to all humanity,but it does depend on how you interpret it.....the reason why i focused directly on christains is because they only believe inn one god...i im not to sure about the hindus and such....i thot they believed in more then one god...i have no probems with them...there religons was around before christanity spread.. personally i think they have a better meaning of god then the christains do...christains want everyone to have a guilt trip,because of jesus...oh he died for you..so this is the truth...blah blah...unless i can have picture perfect evidence i wont ever believe that is true



one other thing i noticed mr briggs ...you dont comment on any other stuff i say...maybe because its sinking in your thick skull..and you cant refute what im saying...dont ask me what i said..why dont you just go back and read it

[edit on 21-12-2005 by MagicPriest420]

Originally posted by SKMDC1

Originally posted by sleeper
Not sure what your question is but if you are asking where is it written that Jesus murder Jews and Romans----it's written in the many books of Josephus. There are too many chapters on it but I will quote a sentence or two, "When Valerian came near the city, he and his troops dismounted, but before any talks, the rebel leaders, led by a certain Jesus, charged out at them."

Link please?

Originally posted by sleeper There are many more passages filled with blood and gore and for the sake of the women and children I will not quote them here---read up on Josephus and see for yourself.

Link please?

Originally posted by sleeper Josephus did not believe or know about the Jesus of Nazareth, however three hundred years later some one inserted Jesus of Nazareth into Josephus's writings----only the most ardent of Christian historians believe that passage to be authentic.

I think you're behind the news on Josephus. First of all the passages are included in a copy of the Antiquities dated at 200 years after Josephus, so your at least 100 years off there. And then there's this:

Originally posted by Wikipedia
Modern consensus
Over the last century, the consensus seems to have changed, and the subjective nature of many of the arguments used in the 19th century has been recognised. Judging from the 2003 survey of the historiography, it seems that the majority of modern scholars consider that Josephus really did write something here about Jesus, but that the text that has reached us is corrupt to a perhaps quite substantial extent. There has been no consensus on which portions are corrupt, or to what degree. However a significant number of scholars consider it genuine, on the grounds that all of the passages supposed to be corrupt are upheld by other writers; a significant number of scholars likewise consider the passage interpolated, on the ground that all the passages upheld are likewise demolished by other writers.

I would provide a link to this, but it is in fact from the same Wikipedia article I linked in my very first post. It seems that your contention that only the most ardent Christian historians think that passage is authentic is about 100 years out of date too. From what Wikipedia says it looks to be more like a 50/50 split at this point, and clearly still up for debate.

I don't have links, you have to buy the books or find then at the library or inquire at your local seminary. I haven't looked to see if that info is on the net----I don't need to I have all Josephus' books.

Josephus was a Roman Jew had he believed that Jesus was the Messiah he would have converted to Christianity as did others who believed.

Josephus never converted, never believed, and therefore would not have written the small blurt found in his writings about Jesus.

Jesus was a common name in Judea back two thousand years ago, and there are more than one person with that name who are in Josephus' books.

Josephus never wrote about Jesus the Christ, no matter how much you or others what to believe that, its historical fact.

Josephus was a soldier who fought the Romans, he later converted and became a Roman, in effect he was part of the machine that destroyed most of the Jewish nation.

He was not only a historian he was a military adviser to the Romans.

Do you think if he believed in Jesus that he would have betrayed his own people including the non existent Jesus?

Originally posted by MagicPriest420

Originally posted by Briggs


You can spin it anyway you want . I dont think he cares as long as you get what he is trying to say.

I agree with you on this...what he said was important to all humanity,but it does depend on how you interpret it.....the reason why i focused directly on christains is because they only believe inn one god...i im not to sure about the hindus and such....i thot they believed in more then one god...i have no probems with them...there religons was around before christanity spread.. personally i think they have a better meaning of god then the christains do...christains want everyone to have a guilt trip,because of jesus...oh he died for you..so this is the truth...blah blah...unless i can have picture perfect evidence i wont ever believe that is true



one other thing i noticed mr briggs ...you dont comment on any other stuff i say...maybe because its sinking in your thick skull..and you cant refute what im saying...dont ask me what i said..why dont you just go back and read it

[edit on 21-12-2005 by MagicPriest420]

No Magicpriest , I dont comment on the other things you say because
I have respect for your beliefs.

I wont put you down for what you believe in, so i try to make my comments
constructive in some way . albeit i dont always succeed .

I am fascinated by what other people have to say , and i try to keep in Mind
that in every Story no matter how crazy it may sound , there may be some
truth to it .

And i never said you wrong about anything , although i do think you maybe
a little sidetracked.

Originally posted by Briggs

No Magicpriest , I dont comment on the other things you say because
I have respect for your beliefs.

I wont put you down for what you believe in, so i try to make my comments
constructive in some way . albeit i dont always succeed .

I am fascinated by what other people have to say , and i try to keep in Mind
that in every Story no matter how crazy it may sound , there may be some
truth to it .

And i never said you wrong about anything , although i do think you maybe
a little sidetracked.

All we can ever do is just post our opiions,and maybe hope other ppl will find intrest in them..i apreeciate your last comment..i will give you the same respect back

Originally posted by sleeper
I don't have links, you have to buy the books or find then at the library or inquire at your local seminary. I haven't looked to see if that info is on the net----I don't need to I have all Josephus' books.

It must be nice to make claims without specific references. Gee, I wish I could post a whole bunch of stuff about the Bible without having to refer to particular passages when asked. It's a might bit unfair, is it not?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus never converted, never believed, and therefore would not have written the small blurt found in his writings about Jesus.

Josephus never wrote about Jesus the Christ, no matter how much you or others what to believe that, its historical fact.

Well, since you won't do your homework, I'll do it for you. Here's an excerpt from Antiquities:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after this crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."

Time to re-check the historical facts.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by sleeper
I don't have links, you have to buy the books or find then at the library or inquire at your local seminary. I haven't looked to see if that info is on the net----I don't need to I have all Josephus' books.

It must be nice to make claims without specific references. Gee, I wish I could post a whole bunch of stuff about the Bible without having to refer to particular passages when asked. It's a might bit unfair, is it not?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

What I told you are quotes from the book, if you wish to verify what I quoted go get the books and verify.

Josephus’ books are copy righted or I would post the pages.

The internet has created a lazy attitude, if it's not on the net and easy to get to forget it-----does anyone read books anymore?

And we wonder why so few know anything.

Originally posted by sleeper
Jesus was a common name in Judea back two thousand years ago, and there are more than one person with that name who are in Josephus' books.

Well, he referred to James as, "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ". That looks pretty specific to me who he was talking about, no confusion there.

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus was a soldier who fought the Romans, he later converted and became a Roman, in effect he was part of the machine that destroyed most of the Jewish nation.

And? Are you saying Paul wasn't? The book of Acts, is a great place to start to see the parallels.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Its ok to have faith in jesus,...but he did not die for your sins..or for anyone

religons are cults which control the masses...spiritaul knowledge should not be confined to a religon or one book...we should accept all spiritaul beliefs..we shouldnt believe one is better then the other,because supposedly one spiritaul leader died for everyone..which is not true....ive herd the question what would jesus do?....well until he knew what was happeneing then he would do something

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by sleeper
Jesus was a common name in Judea back two thousand years ago, and there are more than one person with that name who are in Josephus' books.

Well, he referred to James as, "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ". That looks pretty specific to me who he was talking about, no confusion there.

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus was a soldier who fought the Romans, he later converted and became a Roman, in effect he was part of the machine that destroyed most of the Jewish nation.

And? Are you saying Paul wasn't? The book of Acts, is a great place to start to see the parallels.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

I read the New Testament inside and out, and all most became a preacher---my problem I didn't know when to stop researching. Not only the whole bible but anything I could get my hands on about Christianity, Judaism and the Roman Empire. I even wrote two books about Christianity and the history of the Jews after the Romans. I will not post or give out the names of those books for obvious reasons.

Originally posted by sleeper
What I told you are quotes from the book, if you wish to verify what I quoted go get the books and verify.

Is anything I quoted invalid?

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus’ books are copy righted or I would post the pages.

There's a thread about copyrighted material. Source it and I'm sure you'll do fine. Else, I'm doomed to be booted. Don't need pages though, just relevant info...or even a response to what I posted.

Originally posted by sleeper
The internet has created a lazy attitude, if it's not on the net and easy to get to forget it-----does anyone read books anymore?

I'm reading a Book right now, would you like me to send you a copy? I'll play for the shipping.

Originally posted by sleeper
And we wonder why so few know anything.

So...that's your response then. Well, I'd go into a long speil about being to lazy to research and produce results, but doubt it would accomplish much.

Originally posted by MagicPriest420
Its ok to have faith in jesus,...but he did not die for your sins..or for anyone

Then according to this statement you don't have faith in Jesus. He says who he was, what he did, and what having faith in him means.

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by sleeper
I read the New Testament inside and out,

Excellent, maybe we'll be able to relate a bit.

Originally posted by sleeper
and all most became a preacher---my problem I didn't know when to stop researching. Not only the whole bible but anything I could get my hands on about Christianity, Judaism and the Roman Empire.

God cares about the heart. Being a preacher doesn't make anyone holy. Seeking the truth never turned anyone away from God, else He would not have said, "seek and you will find". What was it you were seeking?

Originally posted by sleeper
I even wrote two books about Christianity and the history of the Jews after the Romans. I will not post or give out the names of those books for obvious reasons.

I respect that you'd not use the forum as an ad agency . Or is it to protect your identity?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

God cares about the heart. Being a preacher doesn't make anyone holy. Seeking the truth never turned anyone away from God, else He would not have said, "seek and you will find". What was it you were seeking?

I was going to preach to get the word out like you are doing, not for brownie points.

I researched so that I could prove that the story of Jesus was true, instead my seeking brought me to other conclusions.

I go to church, and all my family are Christians, but I am no longer, still I pretend that I am for their sake.

I have no intention to persuade anyone away from their beliefs----beliefs are good and help many people get through this life.

I also know that life never ends; it continues after this life---however, heaven and hell are not the destinations, at least not in the same category as many Christians believe.

I respect that you'd not use the forum as an ad agency

. Or is it to protect your identity?

Both

I think that Jesus was an alien, at least more likely than an omnipotent God's son. It all adds up if you ask me. It's just not going to be proven one way or the other. It all comes down to what each individual believes or by what we can figure out to be the truth now. How could we prove that any artifact proving one version or the other was actually genuine? It's to late for me to get started on all my thoughts about this topic. It is a good one though

Now four pages of posts and not yet one single source. Not even a claim at transcendental experience. MagicPriest420, what is the source of your certainty of these claims?

I actually considered bandying back and forth with you point-by-point but realized how silly it all was. As should be patently obvious to anyone reading your posts what you are involved in is storytelling and not very good storytelling at that. You know what your biggest fallacy seems to be? You believe the world divides into two types of people, those who believe in Christian dogma and those who believe in ancient astronauts. Do you understand what I meant when I said imaginary entity A and imaginary entity B? It means I don't believe in either a historical or mythological Jesus (or God or gods) nor do I believe in aliens as you describe them. I don't believe the Biblical account of Moses and the Ten Commandments was real. I believe it was an allegory. If you don't know what I'm talking about, be honest, then utilize the search engine and make an effort to educate yourself.

I have in fact done a bit of reading on the Dogon tribe. To learn my feelings on the concept of ancient astronauts please refer to the discussion on the ATS thread Could Ancient Aliens Be Gods?, which you yourself are participating in.

U2U me and I will let you know how to send me my million bux (I'm hoping that's the same as or equivalent to a dollar). I in fact did know that Mel Gibson played a pastor in the movie "Signs" written and directed by M. Night Shyamalan (also "The Sixth Sense", "Unbreakable", and "The Village") and costarring Joachin Phoenix, brother of River, because I, as hard as it may be to believe, saw the movie. On the TV even. The big twist at the end involved the little girl's water obsession being the means to defeat the aliens, not unlike "The Wizard of Oz". Frankly the movie sucked and had much more to do with heavy-handed, faux Hitchcockian suspense and an implausible twist ending, then anything even remotely resembling real science or mainstream religious theory. I'm afraid I can't accept a personal check. Do you do Pay Pal? Would you care to make any more bets?

Originally posted by sleeper
I was going to preach to get the word out like you are doing, not for brownie points.

Why were you wanting to get the word out?

Originally posted by sleeper
I researched so that I could prove that the story of Jesus was true, instead my seeking brought me to other conclusions.

I go to church, and all my family are Christians, but I am no longer, still I pretend that I am for their sake.

That's not fair to you or them, no? Living a lie has got to be difficult and hope you find the stake in the ground to stand firm to the reality of your situation.

Originally posted by sleeper
I have no intention to persuade anyone away from their beliefs----beliefs are good and help many people get through this life.

Though understand you're wishing to respect the people in your life, you underestimate the power of God. If they truly have faith in God, they'll not be moved by anything you can say.

Originally posted by sleeper

I respect that you'd not use the forum as an ad agency

. Or is it to protect your identity?

Both

The first one I think is certainly a noble cause, so I'm glad it encompasses that as well and I understand your reasoning on the second.


[edit on 22-12-2005 by saint4God]

Forgot to mention this part:

originally posted by MagicPriest420
what ezekiel saw was ufos....end of discussion

You're so completely wrong on so many levels. What you are arguing (for lack of a better term) doesn't even have a beginning let alone an ending. Since you can offer no single shred of evidence of any form whatsoever for anything that you are talking about, then you have absolutely no business declaring a discussions closed. You don't seem to know the first thing about science, mythology, history or religion. On whose authority do you claim dominion over this topic, E.T. or Mork from Ork maybe? You have no idea what you're talking about. Admit it.

Originally posted by sleeper
I don't have links, you have to buy the books or find then at the library or inquire at your local seminary. I haven't looked to see if that info is on the net----I don't need to I have all Josephus' books.

It is on the net. I've linked to it in my posts. Until you cite a reference or provide a source (as I have) and produced something more than a paraphrase of a passage that you kind of remember but it may not be exactly right, then I can't really engage in debate on your sources.

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus was a Roman Jew had he believed that Jesus was the Messiah he would have converted to Christianity as did others who believed.

I never claimed Josephus believed Jesus was the Messiah. I simply claimed that Josephus is a non-biblical historical source for the existence of Jesus and in the writings I *have* read from Josephus I see no mention of the bloodthirsty murdering Jesus you claim was Josephus' view of Jesus.

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus never converted, never believed, and therefore would not have written the small blurt found in his writings about Jesus.

Wow. You need to email that to all the scholars that debate the authenticity of the passages to this day. They're just wasting their time evidently. If you refer back to the sources I linked to you'll see that a MAJORITY of scholars think that at least a portion of those "small blurts" is authentic.

Originally posted by sleeper
Jesus was a common name in Judea back two thousand years ago, and there are more than one person with that name who are in Josephus' books.

That's fine. I don't argue that. My argument is that passages about Jesus, brother of James, and Jesus the doer of good works who was tried by Pilate is the same Jesus from the New Testament. Whether he was the Messiah or simply a martyr who was elevated to a symbol for Christianity isn't what I'm debating.

Originally posted by sleeper
Josephus never wrote about Jesus the Christ, no matter how much you or others what to believe that, its historical fact.

The internet is a big place. Surely you have a basis for this "historical fact" because everything I've read (secular and religious alike) has at the very least said that portions of Josephus' testimony are authentic and he almost certainly wrote something about Jesus of Nazareth. Please provide sources that back up what you are claiming.

Josephus on Jesus (proponent)

Josephus on Jesus (contrary)

Even the skeptical second link allows the probable authenticity of the second mention of Jesus in Josephus in the Trial of James section. I have no idea where you're getting this black and white argument that Josephus by no means mentions the Jesus of the New Testament. Can you provide me with a source for that?