Truthseeka exposes the Patriot Act

Now, I ain't gonna dissect the diabolical USA Patriot Act on this thread, as a number of people more knowledgeable about politics than me have already done so.

What I AM going to do is point out something to the people in denial on this site. I'm going to give a list of incidents which CLEARLY show that the piece of trash Patriot Act HAS been used against US citizens. I repeat; THIS GARBAGE IS NOT FOR "TERRORISTS" ONLY. IT HAS BEEN USED AGAINST US CITIZENS!!!

My bad for the caps, but I gotta drum this into the heads of the naysayers. Aight, here we go...

Homeland Security Agents Visit Toy Store

So, it appears that terrorists are planning to put nuclear devices in bootleg Rubix Cubes. Notice that the manufacturer told the lady that the patent had expired. So, the excuse is that terrorists are going to "steal" expired patents and get us with them. Bulloney. Next.

Patriot Act Being Used to Harrass BlackBoxVoting.org website

So, they want COMPLETE lists of forum messages and IP addresses from this site. It's OK; I'm sure the people are definitely terrorists. Btw, they might do the same for ATS someday...

Secret Service Questions Students

Now, isn't that nice? You thought you still had freedom of speech? You thought you could have legal counsel present when being interrogated? Guess you missed the memo; they OWN you, boy!!!

Boy investigated by FBI for researching school paper on Chesapeake Bay Bridge

Well, get used to it people; it's the post-9/11 world. We can't have students researching stuff all willy-nilly. What if this kid was researching smallpox? Sure, he may not have a multimillion-dollar lab, but he still might be a terrorist.

Photographer Arrested "Under Patriot Act"

What?!?! You thought you could take pictures nowadays? You ain't free no more, BOY, the terrorists are gonna get us! That guy might've had weaponized anthrax in his camera.

FBI says Patriot Act used in Vegas strip club corruption probe

Now granted, white collar crime is crime and should be investigated. But, I missed the part where the Patriot Act is designed to bust corrupt strip club owners. Then again, they can be terrorists too; they might put biologicals in stripper tassels...

Using The Patriot Act To Target Patriots

Now isn't that strange? Someone tries to blow whistles on bioterrorist attacks and gets the Feds raiding them. Aren't we SUPPOSED to be on the lookout for terrorism? But no, now it appears that warning about terror attacks makes you a terrorist. I wonder if that applies to White House officials...

Shopkeeper deported from South Carolina under PATRIOT Act killed in Pakistan

OK, 2 things. If they can deport a Pakistani under the Patriot Act, why can't they do the same to illegal aliens from Latin America, especially Mexico? And, isn't it odd that this guy was killed after being deported. It's almost like those people shipped overseas by the CIA, who magically end up being tortured.

I'll have to continue a little later...

Ok, moving on...

Marijuana smuggling case first local use of Patriot Act provision

So, now dope runners are terrorists. Wait, the article admits that there was no terror connection. But wait, that one commercial said that if I buy weed, I'm supporting Al-CIAda. Looks like terrorists again; they might lace drugs with biologicals and get us that way.

Significant FBI Abuses of the Patriot Act

Hey, what's wrong here? Email snooping, bank statement seizures, and physical shakedowns are necessary to fight these terrorists. Remember, they WILL get us if the govt doesn't have these powers. Uh oh, come to think of it, they might come get me for posting a link to a site about weed...

Feds visit student over Mao book

This is a new one (as in recent). We can't have students studying whatever the teacher tells them to. What's wrong with having certain books on watch lists? The Feds need to monitor what you read; how dare you want to read whatever you want, that might be thought crime. We all know terrorists spend all their time reading anyway. The time in between terrorizing, that is.

Gonzales Admits Patriot Act Used in Mayfield Case

Hey, fingerprint IDing is not what it used to be. So what if the Feds were wrong about this guy. If the Feds say you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. No exceptions. Oh, yeah, this guy is an attorney, not a terrorist. Oops.

The funniest thing to me is that I haven't yet heard of an ACTUAL terrorist being caught as a result of this crappy legislation. This doesn't mean there haven't been any, I just don't know. But, Stevie Wonder can see that ordinary citizens ARE being charged.

So, are those of you who STILL maintain that only terrorists have to fear this act finally ready to admit that you were wrong???

Thank you for doing the research on this! Well-Done! And I know I've read of other issues with the 'terrorist hunt' imposing on people's rights, specifically people's names being on terrorist watch lists with no recourse to get their names taken off, even though there is no connection to terrorists whatsoever.

I know the information is out there and I've just been lazy. Good on you and Way Above!

Here is a little something for use all, is it true I don't know do we have any FBI members who could comment



FBI Pamphlet; Who's a Terrorist

Those of Chrisrtian Identity
Those who Make Numerous references to US Constitution
Those who Request authority for stop
Those who are Defenders of the US Constitution
Those who have Marxist philosophy
Those who support Animals Rights
And Lone Individuals





www.welfarestate.com...

[edit on 19/12/2005 by Sauron]

Better call the FBI on me, since I support the Constitution... (and I'm not even American, that's two strikes against me!) I'm Christian... gulp... that's three strikes... and I don't have a driver's licence (only a learners) so that's a whopping four strikes against me. Come visit me in Guantanamo... I'm going to be real lonely in that dark, cramped cell... oh crap! Lone individuals! That's five strikes!

I also take offense to 'Christian identity' being placed in 'hate groups' along with neoNazis and the KKK. Does the US government really see those three groups in the same light? I sure hope not, but apparently from that document, they do.

Also, I have to ask, under 'common law proponents', what the heck does "request authority for stop" mean? Are they talking about if a cop pulls you over on the road?

Sauron,

"Christian Identity" is a specific group - they're sort of like "Church of the Aryan Nations" or the like, who insist that hte Israelis tribes that God appeared to were actually blonde blue-eyed white people and that Jews (and all other races) are demon-spawned degenerates. I dunno if you knew, or were mistaking "Christian identity" as meaning Christians in general.

Timothy McVeigh was Christian Identity, and I beleive Eric Rudolph had some ties, as well.

I realize that the no-fly lists are separate from the Patriot Act, but they're further indication of giving up rights and freedom in the name of 'safety'.

That FBI stuff looks pretty scary. I defend the Constitution.

30,000 Mistakes on Watch Lists

It is also not known how many other mistakes are on the government watch list because those 30,000 had to first discover that they were on the list and then endure a long process of proving that it is a mistake. Travelers are required to fill out a Passenger Identity Verification Form and give three notarized copies of documents considered to be appropriate identification. Typically, a traveler must wait at least 45 days for the TSA to review the documentation and add the traveler’s name to another “clearance” list. About 60 people have had their request to be added to the “clearance” list denied. His or her names aren’t removed from the “selectee” watch list because the TSA says someone with that name should still be watched.

No-fly list ensnares innocent travelers

In their efforts to prevent a repeat of the Sept. 11 tragedy, the U.S. government and the airline industry are relying on software so outdated that it can't distinguish between the last name of terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden and punk rocker Johnny Rotten Lydon.

Nun Terrorized by Terror Watch List

For nine months in 2003 and 2004, Sister McPhee also took on the task of clearing her name from the government's no-fly list, an endeavor that proved fruitless until she called on a higher power, the White House.

Terror Infants!

Infants have been stopped from boarding planes at airports throughout the United States because their names are the same as, or similar to, those of possible terrorists on the government's ''no-fly list."

Listed for Life

Sarah Zapolsky's 1-year-old son had better get used to being looked at as a possible terrorist every time his family gets on a plane.
That's because experts and officials say there's no way the toddler's name will be taken off the federal no-fly list - even after he and another tot made headlines for being stopped as potential terror threats.

US Maintains a No-Fly List of Antiwar Activists

After more than a year of complaints by some US anti-war activists that they were being unfairly targeted by airport security, Washington has admitted the existence of a list, possibly hundreds or even thousands of names long, of people it deems worthy of special scrutiny at airports.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Sauron,
"Christian Identity" is a specific group - they're sort of like "Church of the Aryan Nations"

The Walking Fox;
No I did not know that, thank you for clearing it up for me and others,

Truthseeka; Great post by the way, I'm not trying to high jack your thread as Benevolent said well done.


[edit on 19/12/2005 by Sauron]

Well, I agree with everything you've said in this post Truthseeka. As a matter of fact, I've been saying 90% of all this since I was 6 years old(I'm 32 now), as it was what My step-father taught Me the Government would eventually do.

No, I'm not saying he predicted 9/11, I'm talking about the stripping away of our rights & freedoms, through use of technical loopholes in the laws the corrupt old men on Capitol Hill write, along with the President.

The Government, uses technicalities, double-speak, & tricky wording, or higher words than the lowly citizens can understand, to confuse, manipulate, & outright trick the citizens (I almost said us, but I'm not one of the people dumb enough to believe their lies & half-truths, I speak, hear, & understand double-speak) into giving away their rights & freedoms willingly.

It's a sad sad state, when the Freedoms & Right that men like Martin Luther King Jr & our Founding Fathers fought for are given away so easily, by both black & white men & women, because they're a little afraid of terrorism.

If you want to stop terrorism, stop letting the Government feed your fears, & begin to open your eyes & think for yourself.

A lot of the tactics the US Military or US Police Departments use, could be seen as a terrorist action, or even to an extreme (take Rodney King for example) seen as a Nazi Stormtroopers action.

This post, is coming from a man, who hopefully will get hired by a Police Department next year after Police Academy. I hope I never have to draw My service weapon, & I will go to every extreme I can, to do My best not to. I am not saying I will hesitate to shoot someone, if necessary, but I'll try My best to talk him/her out of doing whatever he/she is about to do, that will end up making Me kill him in the name of the Law.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

[edit on 20-12-2005 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

You have voted truthseeka for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

What's really cool is that not a single member of the Legislature, by their own admission, Even Read the Patriot Act Before Passing it. The fastest written Act in legislative History, it's terminology so vaguely worded, and it's intentions so cleverly concealed in the interests of safety and security, it's amazing anyone would have had time to read it at all. Now that we have, we can see it come to it's fruition through the domestic agenda it was intended to enforce to begin with.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
"Christian Identity" is a specific group - they're sort of like "Church of the Aryan Nations" or the like...

... I dunno if you knew, or were mistaking "Christian identity" as meaning Christians in general.

I was mistaking 'Christian identity' for Christians in general. Thanks for clearing that up.

Would the "Patriot Act" apply to a foreign national if visiting the USA?

As a Brit, would I be subject to all of your terms such as eavesdropping,

and all of the other infringment of your citizen rights?

How could the British Embassy help if I were detained under the act.

Some of the stories i`ve read seem to say, guilty until proven innocent.

John.

Originally posted by JohnnyUK
Would the "Patriot Act" apply to a foreign national if visiting the USA?

I can't say for sure, but I think most assuredly YES is the answer to your question. In fact, I think a foreign person would be even more at risk of ABPA (Abuse by Patriot Act) then a regular citizen.

Of course the document is so huge and worded to confuse a boatload of lawyers, so I can't understand the thing.

But here is the Text of the Patriot Act and if you search for this phrase, it talks about foreign nationals.

Search for:
Page 115 STAT. 278

confiscate any property, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, of any foreign person, foreign organization, or foreign country that he determines has planned, authorized, aided, or engaged in such hostilities or attacks against the United States;

One of the problems with the Patriot Act is that is gives the president enormous individual power. Pretty much if 'he determines' that something should be done, it can legally be done without support from Congress or us. And let's face it 'he determines' some pretty weird stuff.

This appears to be an interesting read: Patriot Act Analysis

www.religioustolerance.org...

Christian Identity is a radical movement, it is not meant for all Christians...

PETA are the animal lovers,

loners (Unabomber)

Marxist philosophy (why not, these are certainly not democratic views)

Defenders of the constitution ( I am sure they are referring to racist and hate groups who hide behind the constitution)

Use a little common sense and research the pamphlet, that too be honset looks like a 7th grader photoshopped but such are government publications.

Nice links, but there is nothing that is glaring or telling me they are detaining 1000's in camps for no reasons. They all refere to the no fly list, which I would rather have a few infants on, then skip a couple of true terrorists.

The PAtriot Act has been used for plenty, and I a few people are investigated and it can prevent another terror attack, is it not worth it? We were attacked on our own soil by a group who wishes to get rid of Western culture. 3000 people died that day, and I hope they make sure they turn every stone, and make sure an intelligence failure like the one that occured in the 90's regarding Al Qeada does not occur again.

Wow.

Y'all are too kind. Thanks for the props; twitchy, big ups for the way above vote! It's the first one I've had, at least to my knowledge.

It's just, I'm sick of all the lies and all the other crap they're doing to us. I'm also sick of people living in denial about it all. I'm just doing what I can do now to wake people up. When I get more dough, I'm going to do more.

(On a side note, y'all should thank Alex Jones and Paul Watson. Their site is where I got most of my info )