Antarctica was Atlantis

Originally posted by Harte

No, but I've made myself an expert on Sitchen and his ilk. You know, the fraudulent hoaxers like Sitchen, vonDaniken, Hancock, Cremo, Icke etc.

-----------------------------------------------

If you believe in Sitchen, then you don't have the minimum qualifications to shine my shoes, IMO.
In fact, it is you and others that are trying to "destroy" this thread. Sitchen's fiction has nothing at all to do with Atlantis, nor does it involve Antarctica.

Oh now even G. Hancock is a fraud right? Ok Stitchin doesn't have nothing, even the right degree and cannot be called even an expert in cuneiform... What about Hancock, what did the poor man do to you or to other bright minds of this world to deserve this? I've read Fingerprints of the Gods and nothing wrong with it. No fantasy, no imagination but mere facts and logical explanations.

---------------

I didn't say I do or I don't believe in Stitchin and about my qualification you have no idea who you talking to and what is my qualification and education (You'd be suprised). But let's not get to this coz is too kiddish... and I have absolutely no intention to "destroy" the thread but I can't understand this denying "philosophy" that you and people like you are spreading in every thread. (Is not the first time).

So Stitchin is a fraud, Daniken is a fraud, Hancock is a fraud...etc... you've made your point. Let's close both eyes and ears and stick on the science as we know. Let's not discusse anymore about the pyramids and who might have build those coz the orthodox science doesn't accept heresy and if the orthodox science says that the pyramids were build by primitive people using bare arms and woods, that's how it is. Every theory different from this is a fraud and hoax. So we do for the other pyramids in South Amerika, for the imaginary Atlantis, for Nasca Lines and for all those artifacts some of which date even over 100.000 years ago...
Science decides that there is no way that all the above can be other then primitive manmade. Whoever thinks in a different way is a lunatic, hoaxer and fraudulent. How do they dare to think this way? What is this heresy and sacrilege? Who is paying this liars to say things like that??? TO THE STAKE, TO THE STAKE ... DEATH TO HERETICALS

[edit on 31-7-2006 by Telos]

Originally posted by jprophet420
ok, lets forget about stichin for a second and do this. actually look at the sumerian model of the solar system. it shows all of the planets plus one. pluto wasnt first photgraphed until 1915 and wasnt discovered till 1930. how did the sumeriens have pluto in their model of the solar sytem? lucky guess?

you don't have to be a scholar to look at a model and count the solar entities.

jprophet,

The fact that Sitchen makes this claim does not make it so. The truth is, the Sumerians only had the visible planets in their astrology/astronomy (it was the same thing then.)

Sitchen's claim is based on a couple of cylinder seals that he has misinterpreted (IMO, purposefully - reality don't sell many books.) The whole thing is completely covered to any reasonable person's satisfaction on the first site I linked to in my previous post.

I believe it's been addressed here at ATS as well. I'm not gonna get into it beyond saying that the symbol for the Sun in Sitchen's interpretation of the cylinder seal is actually not the Sumerian symbol for the Sun, and in fact the same symbol appears along with the Sumerian symbol for the sun in a fairly large number of other cylinder seals and reliefs from the Sumerian period. So, unless you're gonna claim that there were two suns back then, it makes no sense to interpret that cylinder seal as depicting the solar system.

Originally posted by telos
Oh now even G. Hancock is a fraud right? Ok Stitchin doesn't have nothing, even the right degree and cannot be called even an expert in cuneiform... What about Hancock, what did the poor man do to you or to other bright minds of this world to deserve this? I've read Fingerprints of the Gods and nothing wrong with it. No fantasy, no imagination but mere facts and logical explanations.

EVEN Hancock? You poor soul!
Hancock is among the very worst of them, the man has himself admitted to fudging the facts to make his stories more interesting to the readers. His excuse? "My readership expects it of me." Astounding.

Some info on Hancock, since you didn't dig around at the Antiquity of Man site, at Doug's Archaeology Site, nor at the Hall of Ma'at:

Fingerprints of the Gods: A Review

The Fingerprints of Graham Hancock

An Answer to Graham Hancock

An Analysis of the Quality of Graham Hancock's Science

Pick a Card, Any Card - How Hancock Finds Precessional Numbers

Tracing Graham Hancock's Shifting Cataclysm

There's more than these at all three sites.

Originally posted by telosSo Stitchin is a fraud, Daniken is a fraud, Hancock is a fraud...etc... you've made your point. Let's close both eyes and ears and stick on the science as we know. Let's not discusse anymore about the pyramids and who might have build those coz the orthodox science doesn't accept heresy and if the orthodox science says that the pyramids were build by primitive people using bare arms and woods, that's how it is. Every theory different from this is a fraud and hoax. So we do for the other pyramids in South Amerika, for the imaginary Atlantis, for Nasca Lines and for all those artifacts some of which date even over 100.000 years ago...

Tell you what, why don't you open your eyes and ears so you can better detect the bovine feces these people are shoveling. Or at least hold your nose while you buy into it.

Regarding the Pyramids, I posted a rather interesting quote with links in the Ancient Civilizations section regarding a civil engineering firm that analyzed the manpower and methods for pyramid construction. Maybe you shoud read that. Here's a link to the Engineering firm's report, originally published in Civil Engineering Magazine - the journal of the American Society of Civil Engineers:

Program Management B.C.

And also - okay, I'll bite. I know of a few artifacts that date to 100,000 years ago - but none that indicate any ancient civilization, and certainly none that support anything Graham Hancock (former journalist with absolutely no scientific training whatsoever) ever said.
Could you please post a link to even one of these 100,000 year-old artifacts you seem to believe exist?

Harte

[edit on 8/1/2006 by Harte]

I did my best and I found some of them (not as old as I mentioned in my post).

500,000 Year Old Spark Plug?

The 10 Most Puzzling Ancient Artifacts

I couldn't find the rest but I'll search and I'll post those in this thread.

Now regarding Fingerprints of the Gods... i've read few of the links you posted and to be honest I couldn't see any fraud or hoax by Hancock. Is the same in and out arguments between egyptologysts and each one tries to prove hi theory and validate his claimes. So till here I'm fine. I've seen it and read it before and I'm not suprised. But nobody is calling Hancock a fraud or a hoaxer. They simply don't accept his theories and explainations. What is wrong with that? And why would I think that G.H is trying to be sensational and sell plastic for gold?
Now I'm asking you, have you read the book? Don't bring me here references from others because if we go by that then you better check the end of the book and see 5 pages of references from all the scholars of the world... So don't give me links with what egyptologyst have to say and have to argue. As I said they've been doing this forever. And we're not going to study egyptology to evaluate somebodys logical point of view and arguments he has to say about a certain subject.
Yet again, have you read the book? If not then you better read it and try to see not sci-fi and fairy tales but just follow and read betwen lines. You don't have to be a scholar or a scientist to make your brain work and have your own opinion.
Hancock is not claiming that he is a important figure in Egyptology. Ou contraire he freely admits he has no formal training in archaeology. All he does is a different point of view based on the previous study on egyptology and precolumbian cultures. Uses alot of references from scholars and scientiest and comes up with something that is worth to read it.

[edit on 1-8-2006 by Telos]

Originally posted by Telos
I did my best and I found some of them (not as old as I mentioned in my post).

500,000 Year Old Spark Plug?

The Coso sparkplug has been positively identified as having been made by Champion in the 1920s .....

www.ramtops.co.uk...

Now regarding Fingerprints of the Gods... i've read few of the links you posted and to be honest I couldn't see any fraud or hoax by Hancock.

All I'll say is that Hancock was rather too ready to quote other authors without checking the original sources. He'll happily reference Hapgood - but Hapgood himself got the information from an even earlier work which in turn has since been shown to be wholly inaccurate (the infamous 60ft high Siberian fruit tree for example). When you know some bits are definitely wrong, you question the rest ....

Maybe incompetent, or poorly researched, would be a more accurate assessment?

(For the record, I've read 'Fingerprints' numerous times, along with the follow-up books - 'Heaven's Mirror' and 'Underworld' )


(edit to correct quote marks!)

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Essan]

Originally posted by Telos
I did my best and I found some of them (not as old as I mentioned in my post).

500,000 Year Old Spark Plug?

The 10 Most Puzzling Ancient Artifacts

I couldn't find the rest but I'll search and I'll post those in this thread.

Telos,

I suggest you do a little digging around here at ATS to learn about the "Out of Place Artifacts" you linked to. I believe you'll find that you've been had.

I've contributed as much as I am going to contribute to the OOPART discussion here, until somebody comes up with a new one. Except to say that the Dropa stones and the Ica stones have both been shown to be frauds. When I say fraud, I mean hoaxed for money. A hoax conducted just for fun or for laughs is a hoax. A hoax conducted for money is fraud.

A second suggestion - perhaps you should review the individual OOPARTs on the page you linked. Only the "grooved metal spheres" are truly old, and it turns out they aren't artificial, and only one of the hundreds has been shown to have a groove on it.

Originally posted by TelosNow regarding Fingerprints of the Gods... i've read few of the links you posted and to be honest I couldn't see any fraud or hoax by Hancock....

...But nobody is calling Hancock a fraud or a hoaxer. They simply don't accept his theories and explainations. What is wrong with that? And why would I think that G.H is trying to be sensational and sell plastic for gold?

It's true that none of those people are as rude as I am. Likely that is because none of them were taken in by Hancock, vonDaniken, etc. like I was.

Hancock, IMO, publishes material he knows to be false. Since he makes money at it, it meets my above criteria for fraud.

Originally posted by Telos
... So don't give me links with what egyptologyst have to say and have to argue. As I said they've been doing this forever. And we're not going to study egyptology to evaluate somebodys logical point of view and arguments he has to say about a certain subject.

The problem with that is that it is the Egyptologists that have discovered and developed the knowledge that we posess concerning the ancient Egyptians. It is not former journalists, it's not former hotel clerks, it's not economists.

Originally posted by Telos
Yet again, have you read the book? If not then you better read it and try to see not sci-fi and fairy tales but just follow and read betwen lines. You don't have to be a scholar or a scientist to make your brain work and have your own opinion.
Hancock is not claiming that he is a important figure in Egyptology. Ou contraire he freely admits he has no formal training in archaeology. All he does is a different point of view based on the previous study on egyptology and precolumbian cultures. Uses alot of references from scholars and scientiest and comes up with something that is worth to read it.

I've read only one of Hancock's books - years ago. I have watched several documentaries where he was featured, and seen a few interviews.

Hancock's references are mainly meaningless. Most of his references regard subjects he begins with and then runs with in his own outlandish direction. Several of his references are completely outdated, like Hapgood in the above posted example.

BTW, Hancock himself has admitted now that most of what he put in F.O.G. is just wrong.


Harte


[edit on 8/2/2006 by Harte]

Let's get this straight coz I think from all this replica over here you think that I'm a delusional and I like to believe the impossible... Nope is not like that. I have an open mind and I want to believe but rationally. Unfortunately I have a conviction that science is not saying and not giving all the answers to us and also that is filled up with "fanatics" and autoritarian elements who can't and don't want to accept any new idea or theory...etc.
I don't have a qualification in archaeology or egyptology or ancient civilisations and either in sciences like astronomy, biology, physics and math but I've read and I read alot. So even though I'm not a specialist I'm educated enough te understand and to create my personal opinion based on whatever I read and study. In other words I research as an amator all the above subjects and I like to find the controversial explanation (when is possible).

What I don't understand is the fact that all this people who come foreward with different ideas and theories particularly about our ancient past are being attacked and ridiculed right away. When I say all I mean it. All of them... is impossible to find even one who passes "the test" of honesty and genuinity. Is that normal or is like an hidden hand is trying to silence every person who commits a "sacrilege"?

Anyway since we are mentioning things about egyptology and ancient wisdom I would like to share something with you and possibly to have an opinon coz personally at this point I don't know what to think. I'm refering to a book writen by David H.Lewis, Mysteries of the Pyramid. I can't find any information about his story except one of Al Bielek's lecture who mentioned something that backs up his claimes. Read the excerpts at my blog : Mysteries of the Pyramid

Preface: the author here claims that a unknown, secret entrance to the great pyramid was at last found on the basis of instructions and "intricate codes" - found in a type of underearth tomb in 1936. These code-findings were east of Athena but the "statements" was not correct decoded until many years later he claims. Yes - it was not before june-76 that a small group was able to enter these enormous underground chambers lying deep under the pyramids on Giza. They claim to have taken thousands of microfilms of what they found - things that proves far distant ET-visitations, underground civilizations and far developed societies on earth. It may seem as a fantastic claim or a big bluff - but remember that if this should be true - the conservative scientific society and the might-powers in position - would do all to hide or stop these things. This is not groundless claims - because the now released reports from "the disclosure project" - shows very clear what the men in power has so well covered and denyed ET-visitations and similar the last 60 years or more. Another might that try to prevent these discoveries to come forth, is the mighty churches and the western religions - and the author was also strong influenced of this - as most of the Americans seems to be in many ways. He was a son of a priest (Rev..) Their might would weaken a lot - if proven discoveries would show that "god" did not make/create earth - and human as said literally in the bible, some few millenniums ago. Another thing to remark as some spiritual sources says - is that so-called evidence - that is too convincing - is not allowed to come forth from the spiritual "controlplane" - BECAUSE EVIDENCE IS SOMETHING THE RIPE SEEKER MUST AND WILL RECOGNIZE INSIDE HIM/HERSELF. Therfore it may be so that it was not yet intended that this things should come forth - until time was right.

It is also interesting that other sources as Lobsang Rampa and some physical ET- contactpersons told similar things that the claims here says.

"This unusual venture into these secret chambers was costly, not only in a monetary aspect, but in the four lives that were lost in the few short years that followed the expedition - due to this entry and the information gained. Although nothing was removed from these chambers, the microfilms have since proven to be a priceless entity to those who place money in a higher regard than human life. It is entirely doubtful now that these microfilm clips will ever be displayed for the general public and will remain as guarded as the spacecraft now in captivity at our Air Force Base.

Please if you can, read the story and tell me what is your opinion


Thanks !

[edit on 2-8-2006 by Telos]

Originally posted by Telos
...Unfortunately I have a conviction that science is not saying and not giving all the answers to us and also that is filled up with "fanatics" and autoritarian elements who can't and don't want to accept any new idea or theory...etc.

...I'm educated enough te understand and to create my personal opinion based on whatever I read and study. In other words I research as an amator all the above subjects and I like to find the controversial explanation (when is possible).

Telos,

Well, at least you admit your bias (portion of your post I bolded above.) And it is an understandable bias, at least to me. I mean, most of archaeology is extremely dry (pun intended ) and quite boring, really. It takes an incredibly deep understanding of ancient history to appreciate the significance of most archaeological findings and theories. Who among us wants to spend the years of studying necessary to learn what's already been found and determined to be at least somewhat correct in this field, especially when such theories are often overturned before we've even gotten through learning them?

Originally posted by TelosWhat I don't understand is the fact that all this people who come foreward with different ideas and theories particularly about our ancient past are being attacked and ridiculed right away. When I say all I mean it. All of them... is impossible to find even one who passes "the test" of honesty and genuinity. Is that normal or is like an hidden hand is trying to silence every person who commits a "sacrilege"?

Fortunately, this is actually not the case. Archaeologists disagree all the time, it's just that their disagreements don't generally involve aliens or ancient advanced civilizations.
Only recently it was positively proven that the eruption of Thera occured shortly before 1600 BC (I believe I've got the date right - I started the thread here at ATS on the subject.) This eruption had previously been estimated to have possibly occurred a century or more later than that. This one finding overturned several archaeological theories, and will require many more to be revised.
Regarding these people you lament being "ridiculed," I believe if you truly look at them with your "I'm looking for the controversial explanation" blinders off, you'll find that ridicule is the very least of what these people actually deserve.

BTW, there are actual archaeologists trying to discover the origin of the Atlantis story. Check out this link:
The Atlantis Hypothesis - International Conference on Atlantis, 11-13 July 2005

Originally posted by TelosAnyway since we are mentioning things about egyptology and ancient wisdom I would like to share something with you and possibly to have an opinon coz personally at this point I don't know what to think. ...

I went to your blog and read what you said there. I noticed that this very same subject has been brought up here at ATS before. The problem with the story is that there can be no way to substantiate these claims, and also there is the fact that we have very good evidence for when and how the Egyptians built the pyramids.

That being said, I do have some comments on your external source quote, so I'm going to repost a few parts with comments from me:

Preface: the author here claims that a unknown, secret entrance to the great pyramid was at last found on the basis of instructions and "intricate codes" - found in a type of underearth tomb in 1936....
...Yes - it was not before june-76 that a small group was able to enter these enormous underground chambers lying deep under the pyramids on Giza. They claim to have taken thousands of microfilms of what they found - things that proves far distant ET-visitations, underground civilizations and far developed societies on earth.

There is just no evidence whatsoever that these things ever happened.

...It is also interesting that other sources as Lobsang Rampa and some physical ET- contactpersons told similar things that the claims here says.

Tuesday Lobsang Rampa was an unemployed Englishman that never visited Tibet and did not speak Tibetan. He claimed to have some "channeled" information. I probably don't need to tell you my opinion of the value of this flim-flam man's "information."

The following are quoted from your link, but were not quoted in your post:

Just weeks prior to this expedition's discovery of the hidden entrance on the outer shell of the Pyramid, a caravan of scientists from a California University had just completed their external examination of this structure, using a cosmic and gamma x-ray device to determine whether or not Gizeh was hiding any secret passages or rooms that were undetected from the internal viewing. when these rays were focused on the Pyramid, any solid portion would immediately bounce these rays back, or be delayed should any inner opening absorb the rays longer than necessary. This examination did reveal the obvious delays for its normal inner passageways and its well-known chambers.

"Weeks before" the astounding finds, there was a "caravan of scientists from a California University..."? Well, the supposed finding of a secret entrance occurred in 1976, according to this tale. But the "cosmic and gamma x-ray device" (sic) from the "California University" is, as far as I can find, a reference to the work of Nobel prizewinning Cal-Tech Physicist Luis Alvarez at Giza in the 1960's. Alvarez used muon counters to "x-ray" the pyramids. Muons are produced in collisions of cosmic rays with atoms in the Earth's atmosphere. These muons shower down on Earth at billions per square meter per second.

At least the author is partially correct - Alvarez found no further chambers.

What they did not know was the absorption of split seconds (millionth of a second) that actually indicated a secret stairway running directly behind the King's and Queen's Chamber, for here we are speaking of a large opening with only a 29 inch (74cm)passageway directly in line with these x-rays. Such a narrow passage could obviously be missed and below these Chambers, the structural casing was entirely too thick to emit such rays as far in as this staircase was located. Thus this University experimental examination revealed nothing more than the usual inner openings and no inner passages.

This is pure poppycock. This author purports to understand the muon counter findings produced by Alvarez better than Alvarez himself did. Also, there is no structure, man-made or geological, not even the Earth itself, that is "...entirely too thick to emit such rays..." as the author claims.

Luis Alvarez was still around in 1976 by the way.

Given the above obvious errors in the narrative, along with the outlandishness of the claim, I'd say the entire thing is completely bogus. If I was so disposed, and I could make the time to do so, I have no doubt at all that I (or you) could completely demolish every single claim made in the story. But why should we? The few comments I've made here expose the author as one who simply doesn't know what he's talking about.

Hey, you asked, right?

Harte

The problem with the story is that there can be no way to substantiate these claims, and also there is the fact that we have very good evidence for when and how the Egyptians built the pyramids.

Then we still have to learn alot how to build such giantic monuments with "cyclopic" stones and fit them so tight and perfectly well so even a thin razor can't penetrate between rocks. I'm starting to have more respect for ancient egyptians I wonder how did they do to transport all those huge stone blocks weighting over 10 tons from queries 60 miles away and with a rate of one stone in every 7 minutes (considering the 20 years time line that took to build the Khafre Pyramid for exp) etc...

Thanks for the time you spend to answer. I liked your logical reasoning even though some time you jump to easy to the conclusions. Anyway at least you're consistent with your belief

Take care


[edit on 3-8-2006 by Telos]

After reading the entire exert that you had posted Telos,(This was on the Star nations thread) it was quite evident that the statements were rather "Far Fetched" to say the least. But, as you start looking into it, it even becomes more intrigueing to the actul "Facts' of this expedition taking place. For the most part, it is basically "Untracable" to conclude with the so called "Proofs" of it being actual. But then again, as thing's are unfolding for the root of this story, "One can't deny it being an actual occurance." Which in turn allows it to be very "Feasible" for the open-minded and the researcher's of such interests.
Everything you have reinterated to the poster's here is factual, there are no "Iron Clad" proofs for either aspect of the claim's, so that to me ,"Is this a for real,actual event and some how goot lost purposely or accidentally?" The story itself is amazing, but finding absolutely nothing, but the author's history, the research team's acqusation's of the journey through the eye's of the author, it remains not only a "Mystery" but a bonifiable "Conspiracy" to the lack of information to be attained, even over the internet, you would suppose someone with even basic searching skills to be able to find something to the nature of such an event taking place.
The story is SSssOOoo detailed with information, it makes it hard to close your eye's to this being a genuine fact, the step's, the occurances ,(Egyptian gaurds) how long the entire duration of the expedition from begining to end, the description of the mechanics involved with the story, ect. ect. ect....... It is all mind blowing, and it is what I would like to reffer too as "A moving car without a driver.". I have been intrigued by your initial first post and have looked farther into it, but haven't found nothing to substanciate anything that has been stated , "As of yet.." LOL
I intend on getting the entire read, finally found it at Barnes and Knobles, I am looking forward to reading it in it's entirity..
Until then "We can only speculate the truth's." Denying Ignorance...Once Again!!!

The only place that has that book online is at hiddenmysteries.com and with a great price. Amazon has it too but almos tripple of the price. From this author I've read also Incredible Cities of Inner Earth (almost half of the members of the first expedition in Egypt partecipated in the search of the inner earth civilization). Gosh same detailes, same descriptions and acuracy in every single step... Amazing... If it's true then we gotta change all history books

I truly believe that this being factual would rock "Jerry Farwells" belief system!!
I have seen a few places on the internet that have books online, but really didn't find this particular one. B&K have it for $69 , but I can also talk to some of my "Book worm" friend's and get it used,"Possibly?".
I have printed out the information from the posted information, and I am stumbling a bit when it comes down to the "Mathematics" involved with the expedition and the word for word memoir's. It seem's as if they relate to some kind of "Puzzle", have you ever noticed that Telos?
Steps,stairs,dimensions,measurements,guesses on item's, the whole thing allows a veriable possibility of having more than just a good read.
"Whats your opinion Telos? And if you haven't noticed it, go back for another read and pay attention to the "Numbers" thing I am talking about." K?

Originally posted by Telos
The only place that has that book online is at hiddenmysteries.com and with a great price. Amazon has it too but almos tripple of the price. From this author I've read also Incredible Cities of Inner Earth (almost half of the members of the first expedition in Egypt partecipated in the search of the inner earth civilization). Gosh same detailes, same descriptions and acuracy in every single step... Amazing... If it's true then we gotta change all history books

Don't know what to say about that. But there was something in the book that got my attention. In the preface he says that four members of the expedition lost their lives due to the entry in the tomb and the information gained. He mentioned the same thing in the other book that talks about the expedition in the crevices of the inner earth. I'm sending you the link where you can find both books for a price of 16 $ plus shipping, check your 2u2.

[edit on 3-8-2006 by Telos]

Look what I found out. There is a DVD just released and talks about the same account.

Disclosure : Location of the Entrance
to the Hall of Records - DVD

Here few excerpts from the dvd:

In this unique one-off presentation, Howard Middleton-Jones and James M Wilkie demonstrate with unique graphics and illustrations, how they unravelled the code to understand the location to the entry point of the Hall of Records in Egypt.

The DVD demonstrates how in actual fact Edward Cayce, known as the sleeping prophet in the 1930's and 1940's, was correct in his assertion that the entry to the so called Hall Of Records was under the right Paw of the Sphinx. However, as the presentation shows, which right paw? And where? The constellation of Orion plays a major role in the scenario, as does a number of other pyramid sites apart from the Giza necropolis. Intrigue after intrigue is demonstrated as the trail leads the viewer across Egyptian deserts and ancient tombs, a trail which ultimately leads the intrepid searcher to the Delta region of Egypt!...

Here is the LINK

Don't know how this two guys are but can't wait to see the dvd.



[edit on 3-8-2006 by Telos]

Originally posted by Telos

The problem with the story is that there can be no way to substantiate these claims, and also there is the fact that we have very good evidence for when and how the Egyptians built the pyramids.

Then we still have to learn alot how to build such giantic monuments with "cyclopic" stones and fit them so tight and perfectly well so even a thin razor can't penetrate between rocks. I'm starting to have more respect for ancient egyptians

I wonder how did they do to transport all those huge stone blocks weighting over 10 tons from queries 60 miles away and with a rate of one stone in every 7 minutes (considering the 20 years time line that took to build the Khafre Pyramid for exp) etc...

Thanks for the time you spend to answer. I liked your logical reasoning even though some time you jump to easy to the conclusions. Anyway at least you're consistent with your belief

Take care


[edit on 3-8-2006 by Telos]

I forgot to add something in this post. When I mentioned the stone blocks I should have specified that their weight is from 2 to 30 tons with some weighing as much as 70 tons. The pyramid (I'm talking about the Great Pyramid) is estimated to have 2.3 milion stone blocks and a computer calculation gives us a different number, 590.712. Either way too much rocks and short time to be able to move them from faraway.

For more detailed information check this link: SYMBOLISM AND COINCIDENCES OF THE GREAT PYRAMID

There has many befoe us that go here to deviate and litigate the proper procedure nesseccary to achieve such a feat. I do not believe in any of what I have heard thus far for the "Explanation" of the "Great Pyramid" in a nut shell.
It has been happening in our Galaxy, vacinity, our past, for thousands of years. No one will except it because we were taught another way of "Believing" which leads me to a little evidence.
The moon is our closest cousin (In spacial term's of course.) But there is so much information, there is not one person that has come forward with the actual evidence we seek? There are a few that have tried to "Disclose" what we are now looking for. They are sometimes right here on this forum chatting it up, if you don't know who they are, "Better start reading the past." (Ironic 'Isn't it?") There are a few that care about the outcome of this situation, they have no gain's for disclosing anything they know, except for the "Nonbelievers" of our reality.
The "Pyramid" has been around for sometime, "And I am not talking of the Earth." They are found on planets everywhere. Mars,earth it is all the same. There is no acception to the rule of existance. "You either are, or "Aren't." As we understand it. The "Pyramid" of the "Greats" was the beacon of man. it has came full circle with the worst ridicule of all "Unexplainable" situations of our "Reality".
Let me show you....
This is a picture of a "Pyramid" , Notice it has a begining and a "Finished state.."
www.hunkler.com..." target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>

Now I will show you a picture taken by "Manmade" objects of the "Moon".
Though it is the true "Trapizoid" with 3 sides, the basis is the same.


we all have been disinformed for year's. Even our Grand fathers Fathers. We have bit into the acceptance of total "Brain Wash" and we , over the years, have became the "Brain Washed". There is more out there that "WE" don't know, we have to find the truths because we "Feel" there is something more to our existance. But, Yet, "We tend to discredit from our 'Training' of our existance." Something is going to happen, can't say when, can't say where, but it will be a "Changing of our conscience" forever.

Originally posted by Telos
...we still have to learn alot how to build such giantic monuments with "cyclopic" stones and fit them so tight and perfectly well so even a thin razor can't penetrate between rocks. I'm starting to have more respect for ancient egyptians

I wonder how did they do to transport all those huge stone blocks weighting over 10 tons from queries 60 miles away and with a rate of one stone in every 7 minutes (considering the 20 years time line that took to build the Khafre Pyramid for exp) etc...
Either way too much rocks and short time to be able to move them from faraway.

Telos,

If you go to the "Program Management B.C. link I gave you, you'll see that this is just not true. You should read that report. It is very enlightening.

Also, there are very few stones in the Great Pyramid that fit together as precisely as you have been led to believe. And the quarries were not "60 miles away," the overwhelming majority of stone was quarried right there at Giza. The decorative stones (like granite) were transported up the Nile from other quarries, and into canals dug for the purpose right up to the pyramid. Canals we have since discovered the remains of.

Harte

Ok then harte pyramids were build by ancient egyptians. Does that claim rapresents the truth? Does that make everybody happy? Fine by me... There are so many question marks about pyramids and egyptologists too are so puzled with some of them and don't have an ration answer... Now you might ask me... where did you read this, bring the references...etc. Of course my friend what I just wrote is not product of my imagination and i've read through the years in alot of materials. I'm not going to bring those here coz I consider that pointles. There is goin to be always another opinion, another data and another claim that will contradict the previous one and so on.
But wat does this bring to the people? Is that what we need... just accept something that has so many ??? and because we're not able to answer then we chose the shortest and easier way by accepting what does make more sens to our simple mind. I brought an example with Gret Pyramid but huge monuments like that are spread allover the world and few of the caracteristics that I mentioned in my post belong to this monuments aswell. At this point I think is better if everybody keeps is own opinion and idea

Also, there are very few stones in the Great Pyramid that fit together as precisely as you have been led to believe. And the quarries were not "60 miles away," the overwhelming majority of stone was quarried right there at Giza. The decorative stones (like granite) were transported up the Nile from other quarries, and into canals dug for the purpose right up to the pyramid. Canals we have since discovered the remains of. Harte

You prove to me that this was done in the "Vacinity of 60 mi.) and I will believe you. remember no texts that reffer to the "Theories" just absolute proof's.

Originally posted by Telos
Ok then harte

pyramids were build by ancient egyptians. Does that claim rapresents the truth? Does that make everybody happy? Fine by me... There are so many question marks about pyramids and egyptologists too are so puzled with some of them and don't have an ration answer... Now you might ask me... where did you read this, bring the references...etc. Of course my friend what I just wrote is not product of my imagination and i've read through the years in alot of materials. I'm not going to bring those here coz I consider that pointles. There is goin to be always another opinion, another data and another claim that will contradict the previous one and so on.

Telos,

Just because some engineers have seen how the Pyramidscould have been built, that does not necessarily mean that they were built in the way that the engineers assumed.

However, what it does mean is that just saying "too many rocks and not enough time" or whatever is not in any way a refutation of the accepted theory of pyramid construction anymore.

I know you've seen it all over this part of ATS. "No way they could have done it." "It would have to be too many stones per second..." whatever. You just used the argument yourself, I quoted it above.

The argument that it couldn't have been done by the Egyptian workforce in the alloted amount of time has been refuted.

Of course, that certainly doesn't prove that the Egyptians actually did construct the pyramids. But it does mean that if a person is to believe that they didn't, then the idea that they couldn't have is not sufficient as evidence to that view.

Another thing to remember is that there is a gigantic amount of misinformation out there about the pyramids and the dimensions of the Great Pyramid in particular. For example, If I ever have to see the argument about the Great Pyramid utilizing the value of pi being an argument for a non-Egyptian answer to the construction, I'm just gonna lay down and cry. You yourself mention the stones fitting so close that a razor wouldn't fit between them, that the stones were quarried from 60 miles away, or whatever. Those are common misunderstandings.

And you are correct that there are stone structures all around the world, there are many right there in the Mediterreanean region that we know little or nothing about. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Especially the structures that we don't even know who used them. I mean, we can't even speculate about whether or not these[ structures were built with the methods the Egyptians could have used - many of these haven't even been dated. Obviously, they were built by somebody. We have no evidence of any ancient advanced civilization. So until we do (if ever,) it only makes sense to assume the civilizations we know built the structures that (like the pyramids) we at least know something about. Especially when construction experts can devise a perfectly reasonable method for them having done so. As for the structures that we can't date and can't associate with any particular civilization, again, absent any evidence of anything out of the ordinary, it only makes sense to assume these were built by local residents of the areas where they are located.

Harte

Originally posted by Allred5923

Also, there are very few stones in the Great Pyramid that fit together as precisely as you have been led to believe. And the quarries were not "60 miles away," the overwhelming majority of stone was quarried right there at Giza. The decorative stones (like granite) were transported up the Nile from other quarries, and into canals dug for the purpose right up to the pyramid. Canals we have since discovered the remains of. Harte

You prove to me that this was done in the "Vacinity of 60 mi.) and I will believe you. remember no texts that reffer to the "Theories" just absolute proof's.

If you re-read the portion of my post you quoted, you will see that I did not say that anything was done "in the vicinity of 60 miles."

Also, if you do a quick search of my posts, or if you've read any of the recent ones (from this week, I believe) you'll find where I've argued that there is no absolute proof of anything in reality. So I really don't see how I could provide such a thing, even if I had said what you claim.

Now, I guess I should assume that what you meant to ask for was "absolute proof" that these stones were (in the majority) quarried at Giza and not brought from 60 miles away. Do I have this right?

That being said, there are ancient quarries at Giza, and fine limestone quarries on the opposite side of the Nile from the pyramids. These quarries are still there today. If you want more "proof," well, sorry. I can't lay my hands on any documentation that the stones have been perfectly matched up with the remaining stone in these quarries, though I suppose that such a thing has probably been attempted. Limestone is not exactly homogeneous though, so I'm not sure such a study could "prove" much unless you could examine a large majority of the limestone in the pyramids, which obviously can't be done.

On the other hand, I find it hard to fathom the Egyptians dragging limestone blocks past a perfectly usable, but dormant, quarry on their way to the pyramid construction site. Is this what you suggest happened? I mean, even if ET built the pyramids, I'd still like to see the justification for bringing in limestone from elswhere in order to build a structure out of limestone that is located on a huge limestone outcropping itself, where limestone quarries already existed.

Harte