OP/ED: Kerry Wants Bush Impeached

Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
I'm sure that he wanted Bush impeached from the very beginning, just as so many of his leftist lackeys have, if for no other reason than tit for tat for Clinton's impeachment. The left-wing has been howling for Bush's impeachment all along, and their calls are doubly ironic since so many of them really don't even know what impeachment is. It's just what was done to Clinton, and they want to get even for that.

And your evidence for saying that? What are you basing your statements on regarding Dems motivations? I am Dem as are most of the people I know and none of us feel that way. We want Bush impeached because he is a bimbo socipath wilth no common sense, values. or respect for the Constitution and the American people. ANd yes, I DO know what impeachment is and have since the 7th grade. Why do some of you simply make up lies and rumors in order to bash Dems, instead of finding out the truth and presenting a credible case with evidence for your positions?
You only look ignorant when you do that.

- Forestlady

Originally posted by forestlady
Valhall's recent statement about Dems "wanting to get even for Clinton's impeachment" is just simply ridiculous.
- Forestlady

Excuse me? You got over zealous in your condemnations. I didn't say that. Let's look at the record...

Originally posted by Valhall
quoting centurion1211:

Now this impeachment issue is pretty simple to me. It was done to Clinton for lying under oath. Now democrats must feverishly search for a reason or issue to return the favor. Their desperation to find something to use is shown in their willingness to give up the troops and perhaps even lose a war if it will only help them accomplish their goal of getting even.

You got a couple of flaws in your logic here.

1. I don't think anybody needs to get feverish in their search. It pretty much got handed to them on a silver platter.

2. "their willingness..." etc. - they haven't been in majority, what the heck are you thinking? What willingness? This is an accusation that has to have supporting evidence behind it, or just sits there like the baseless tripe it currently resembles.

I have believed all along that Bush knew the intelligence info was bad. That is why he specified "British Intelligence" in his speech. This left him a way out by design. When it was later proven that Iraq didn't have anything he could always go back and blame the British Intelligence. What else was the point of pointing out that it wasn't our intelligence? It was a deliberate deception.

OH MY GOD!!! You mean that John Kerry is playing politics - HOLY SMOKES!!! It takes balls the size of a Cadillac to accuse the President of intentionally starting a war over bad intelligence when he, himself, reviewed the EXACT SAME INTELLIGENCE and voted for the war. Now I ask, does that define the very word HYPOCRITE!?!?

John Kerry is sour grapes. He lost. He still can't believe that
he lost. ANY OTHER dem would have beat Bush .. but Kerry
couldn't. He's licking his wounds. He's TRYING to sound like
he's the leader of the democrats. He's NOT the leader of the
dems, but he is trying to sound like he is so he can run again
in 2008. He sounds like he's suffering from hyper-reality.

"John Kerry is sour grapes. He lost. He still can't believe that
he lost"

He lost. You lost . We have all lost because a loser like George Bush is alive. Oh yeah, and is President.











[edit on 12/18/2005 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by kozmo
OH MY GOD!!! You mean that John Kerry is playing politics

- HOLY SMOKES!!! It takes balls the size of a Cadillac to accuse the President of intentionally starting a war over bad intelligence when he, himself, reviewed the EXACT SAME INTELLIGENCE and voted for the war.

Excuse me, but I think I've already pointed this out once. This is a non-argument. Yeah, Kerry saw the same intelligence - the same falsified intelligence. Now - what exactly is your point?

[edit on 12-18-2005 by Valhall]

I love it how some people twist things to suit their agendas. John Kerry saw the same BOGUS intelligence the others saw.....

Get that thru your heads. They all saw falsified intelligence, and they agreed with the president.
My Gosh, if they hadnt agreed, they would have been laughed out of the political arena.
I WOULD HAVE BELEIVED IT.

The problem; It was bad intelligence or made up.

Kerry, as it turns out, imo, was a plant by the government and he knew it and he also knew he wouldnt be president. A Democrat was needed and who better to run against the would be king than another Skull & Bonesman? A few stories later, and ooops, he loses..And for those who werent fooled, the fixed voting machines did the rest of the job.

Right on forestlady i agree 100% and with that good night. the third shift awaits me!

That means I'm accomplishing something.

Originally posted by Muaddib

We could also say that there is a group of people whose common sense is blinded by their hatred towards the present administration, and nomatter what evidence is presented they will always claim "it was planted and it is not the truth..."

Yes, we certainly could say that, although it wouldn't be as poetic.

Those people of whom you speak are the left-armed and left-eyed of whom I spoke. Their opponents-- those who, like them, will go to absurd lengths in order to apparently demonstrate some sort of "truth," and who, like them, utterly fail to understand that BOTH sides are being played for fools by the powers-that-be, are the right-armed and right-eyed.

I'm sure that the two-armed and two-eyed appreciated it...

Originally posted by forestlady

And your evidence for saying that (...Dem's calls for Bush's impeachment are largely motivated by a desire for vengeance for Clinton's impeachment...)? What are you basing your statements on regarding Dems motivations?

Observation and analysis-- the traditional tools employed in order to reach conclusions regarding, among other things, motivation.

I am Dem as are most of the people I know and none of us feel that way.

If you say so, I'll accept that. I don't particularly believe that a desire for vengeance had NO bearing on the decisions of ALL of your friends as well as you, but I have no evidence to indicate otherwise, so I'll tentatively accept your assertion. However, your small sampling in no way counters my statement. Of course not ALL Dems feel that way-- that's a given. However, it's been my experience that enough of them do to establish it as a valid observation, and the specific reasoning of your relatively small group of friends, even if presented truthfully and accurately, does nothing to counter that.

Why do some of you simply make up lies and rumors in order to bash Dems, instead of finding out the truth and presenting a credible case with evidence for your positions?

Actually, I've written here extensively, presenting a credible case with evidence for my position on the general subject of impeachment and on the specific subject of Bush's possible impeachment, detailing not only my opinions about him, but about the possibility of impeaching him and what impeaching him would actually require and entail. In your rush to be offended by one of my posts, you must've missed all the rest of them.

You only look ignorant when you do that.

[edit on 18-12-2005 by Bob LaoTse]

Originally posted by Bob LaoTse

Yes, we certainly could say that, although it wouldn't be as poetic.

Those people of whom you speak are the left-armed and left-eyed of whom I spoke. Their opponents-- those who, like them, will go to absurd lengths in order to apparently demonstrate some sort of "truth," and who, like them, utterly fail to understand that BOTH sides are being played for fools by the powers-that-be, are the right-armed and right-eyed.

I'm sure that the two-armed and two-eyed appreciated it...

Oh, i see... and you are the enlightened one who is here to save us all from our ignorance........

Originally posted by Bob LaoTse

You only look ignorant when you do that.

[edit on 18-12-2005 by Bob LaoTse]

Sorry but, someone who claims that only he knows the truth and everyone else is asleep shows more ignorance than those that are searching for the truth.

I never claimed the US government is without fault, nor do i know everything that is going on, and I am sure noone in here does...not even you.....but it is damn tiresome to keep hearing people trying to blame everything on the US government.

[edit on 19-12-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by forestlady
Some of you folks have been watching too much Fox News. I can't believe the misinformation I've seen here on this topic. FYI:

- Kerry DID admit he was wrong, but not in so many words. He did say he was misled by faulty intelligence.

That's not admitting he was wrong....that's trying to blame someone else for the mistakes he has made....

Originally posted by forestlady
- We knew before we ever went into Iraq that Iraq was not harboring terrorists against the U.S.

Wrong, if you would have taken some time to actually read some of the excerpts and links i provided, you would have found that at least the Russian, the Spaniard and the Czech governments all provided evidence that the Iraqi government, throught it's embassies, was supporting terrorists....

Not only that, but you should have known that many times has Saddam in the past talked about giving money to the families of suicide bombers who have killed Israelis and Americans citizens.

Not to mention the other evidence, part of which I mentioned, excerpted and provided links that support what i said.

Originally posted by forestlady
- The 2 top guys who went in looking for WMD's said there were no WMD's before we ever voted to go into Iraq.

2 top guys?..... the 2 top guys would be the president and vice president, and they both believed the evidence that said Iraq had wmd and wmd programes, they appear to have been right. The only problem is that people are ossesed with only finding the "stockpiles" and do not want to consider the evidence that has been found because everyone is obssessed with playing the political game.

Originally posted by forestlady
- No, not all countries believed Hussein had WMD's. There were countries who tried to warn us that this wasn't true.

Would you tell us which countries were these?

Originally posted by forestlady
- Just the other day, even BUSH said there were no WMD's that he had made a mistake in believing so.

That i know of what has been said is that we haven't found the stockpiles of wmd, there is a difference.

Originally posted by forestlady
- Undermining our troops??? We shouldn't have ever gone to Iraq anyway, all the reasons why were simply made up. I read about that before we invaded Iraq. If you want to undermine our troops and lower morale, leave them in Iraq lilke we've been doing. THey should be brought home immediately, especially since now we know that our "reasons" for invading were bogus.

Riiight...so i guess the government of Spain was also lying, and so was the government of Russia, which i believe was playing both sides, and the Czech government, and many others including France.....right?...

BTW, most Iraqis seem to want the US there, if the coalition leaves, Iraq will be completly taken by terrorists, and then those who always bash and blame everything on the Us will once again find another reason to blame and bash at the US.

Originally posted by forestlady
ANd hey, I also notice ATS that conservatives engage in Democrat bashing on a regular basis, but Dems aren't doing that. Isn't there a rule against blanket insults? I don't know how many times I've seen heinous motivations ascribed to Democrats that are simply insults, nothing more; they're not based on ANY evidence or information.

no evidence or information?....what in the world was I doing then...ordering pizza?......

Originally posted by forestlady
Most Dems want to impeach Bush because he simply is evil;

I thought you were saying something about posting information and evidence instead of resorting to insults and bashing at any political party or their reps.....

Originally posted by forestlady
he believes in torture and has said so; he believes in invading any country he wants to and has made that policy;

Would you please show evidence that president Bush believes in torture...and btw, if there was a policy of "invading any country" we would have invaded many others.....

Originally posted by forestlady
and he espouses downright fascist beliefs,

Any evidence for that?....no?.....

Originally posted by forestlady
he's destroyed our democratic rights.

Would you show us what "democratic" rights have been destroyed?....

Originally posted by forestlady
Lastly, he was never elected in the first place.

Really?.... Why? because you say so?....

Originally posted by forestlady
THe Supreme Court appointed him, somelthing which is highly unsconstituitonal and should never have happened.

He was chosen by the people... More people voted for him than those who didn't.

Originally posted by forestlady
The General Accounting Office just came out and said it has evidence that the 2004 election was stolen by BushCo. Even people in Germany are saying that Bush reminds them of Hitler...

- Forestlady

We have gone throught this already and it has been demonstrated that the General Accounting office never said that...yet some people like to exagerate trying to play their political game.....

About the people in Germany...it was a group of people, most people in Germany did not even take part of those demonstrations....

BTW...there are many people in the world who think that fidel castro is an angel, and he should have been given the nobel peace prize like some morons in the UN nominated that assassin ashole for the nobel peace prize.....

Just because "some people" claim something about someone else it doesn't mean it is true.....


[edit on 19-12-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by forestlady
Valhall's recent statement about Dems "wanting to get even for Clinton's impeachment" is just simply ridiculous.
- Forestlady

Excuse me? You got over zealous in your condemnations. I didn't say that. Let's look at the record...

Originally posted by Valhall
quoting centurion1211:

Now this impeachment issue is pretty simple to me. It was done to Clinton for lying under oath. Now democrats must feverishly search for a reason or issue to return the favor. Their desperation to find something to use is shown in their willingness to give up the troops and perhaps even lose a war if it will only help them accomplish their goal of getting even.

You got a couple of flaws in your logic here.

1. I don't think anybody needs to get feverish in their search. It pretty much got handed to them on a silver platter.

2. "their willingness..." etc. - they haven't been in majority, what the heck are you thinking? What willingness? This is an accusation that has to have supporting evidence behind it, or just sits there like the baseless tripe it currently resembles.

Val, I'm not sure if the reply your quote posted was accidentally included or you thought I wrote it, but...I didn't.

The reason I'm saying your comment was ridiculous is because you have no proof, no evidence, no polls to back up your statement. It sounds as if you came up with something off the top of your head. To say that Dems just want to get even with the folks who created the Clinton scandal is just plain insulting and wrong. What it says is that you believe Dems to be small-minded, vengeful and stupid. I don't know ONE Democrat who just wants to get even for Clinton's impeachment.
You are stating your opinion, which seems to me to be pretty biased, but it is not a fact, big difference.

Regarding your U2U, I can only say that there are alot of statements on this forum that demonstrate a loss of temper; mine isn't one of them. FYI, I didn't lose my temper. BTW "offended" is how I felt, more than angry, by all the Dem-bashing that seems to go on here.
- Forestlady

Originally posted by forestlady

And your evidence for saying that (...Dem's calls for Bush's impeachment are largely motivated by a desire for vengeance for Clinton's impeachment...)? What are you basing your statements on regarding Dems motivations?

Observation and analysis-- the traditional tools employed in order to reach conclusions regarding, among other things, motivation.

I am Dem as are most of the people I know and none of us feel that way.

If you say so, I'll accept that. I don't particularly believe that a desire for vengeance had NO bearing on the decisions of ALL of your friends as well as you, but I have no evidence to indicate otherwise, so I'll tentatively accept your assertion. However, your small sampling in no way counters my statement. Of course not ALL Dems feel that way-- that's a given. However, it's been my experience that enough of them do to establish it as a valid observation, and the specific reasoning of your relatively small group of friends, even if presented truthfully and accurately, does nothing to counter that.

Why do some of you simply make up lies and rumors in order to bash Dems, instead of finding out the truth and presenting a credible case with evidence for your positions?

Actually, I've written here extensively, presenting a credible case with evidence for my position on the general subject of impeachment and on the specific subject of Bush's possible impeachment, detailing not only my opinions about him, but about the possibility of impeaching him and what impeaching him would actually require and entail. In your rush to be offended by one of my posts, you must've missed all the rest of them.

"In my rush to be offended"???? There is a huge difference between "debate" and "insulting/disparaging". Yours are words that can be construed as "baiting others". It's supposed to be respectful debate, right?

Observation and analysis of what data? You have personally conducted your own poll? You have read that this is true? If so, please give sources for the information you observed and analyzed regarding your opinion. And why is it that you think you know more Dems than me in my "small circle" of friends? FYI, I have been a political activist and I know probably 500 Dems, at least. And it also sounds as if you think you know more about my motivations than I do.
What qualifies you to know better than myself what I'm thinking?
There is a BIG difference between making a sound judgment based on facts and BEING JUDGMENTAL. Yours seems to be the latter case.

Originally posted by forestlady

Val, I'm not sure if the reply your quote posted was accidentally included or you thought I wrote it, but...I didn't.

The reason I'm saying your comment was ridiculous is because you have no proof, no evidence, no polls to back up your statement. It sounds as if you came up with something off the top of your head. To say that Dems just want to get even with the folks who created the Clinton scandal is just plain insulting and wrong. What it says is that you believe Dems to be small-minded, vengeful and stupid. I don't know ONE Democrat who just wants to get even for Clinton's impeachment.
You are stating your opinion, which seems to me to be pretty biased, but it is not a fact, big difference.

Regarding your U2U, I can only say that there are alot of statements on this forum that demonstrate a loss of temper; mine isn't one of them. FYI, I didn't lose my temper. BTW "offended" is how I felt, more than angry, by all the Dem-bashing that seems to go on here.
- Forestlady

FOR THE SECOND TIME...I didn't say that. FOR THE SECOND TIME...I point out that I was the one that said...

You got a couple of flaws in your logic here.

1. I don't think anybody needs to get feverish in their search. It pretty much got handed to them on a silver platter.

2. "their willingness..." etc. - they haven't been in majority, what the heck are you thinking? What willingness? This is an accusation that has to have supporting evidence behind it, or just sits there like the baseless tripe it currently resembles.

IN OPPOSITION TO another poster that stated they believed current talk of impeachment against Bush was just a "get back" for the Clinton impeachment efforts.

Are we clear yet? I surely hope so...because I don't handle having words put in my mouth very well. I get testy - like other people, and I can't help it, it's a personality weakness.


[edit on 12-19-2005 by Valhall]

Sorry Valhalla I made a mistake, you can calm down. I hereby issue my retraction. I should have been addressing Centurion.
My bad, sorry.
- Forestlady

Originally posted by forestlady
Sorry Valhalla I made a mistake, you can calm down. I hereby issue my retraction. I should have been addressing Centurion.
My bad, sorry.
- Forestlady

Well, it is my opinion based on democrats I've talked with in California, and if it is also true in a wider sense then your description of democrats will have to stand.

One more quick thought experiment for you. Exactly how many democrats in public office would you expect to admit they were trying to get even for Clinton's impeachment? That's right, the answer is none. Sometimes you can find democrats in everyday life, though, that will tell the truth on this issue.

[Well, it is my opinion based on democrats I've talked with in California, and if it is also true in a wider sense then your description of democrats will have to stand.
One more quick thought experiment for you. Exactly how many democrats in public office would you expect to admit they were trying to get even for Clinton's impeachment? That's right, the answer is none. Sometimes you can find democrats in everyday life, though, that will tell the truth on this issue.

Well, I have lived almost all of my life in California, up until this last June. Most everyone I knew there was a Democrat; not one I ever met ever said they wanted vengeance for the Clinton scandal. Maybe that's why the Dems you've talked to didn't "admit" to feeling that way; they simply don't have the motivation to want vengeance on Clinton. Sounds like fanciful/wishful thinking on your part. Do you honestly think that I and others spent 20 hours a week working on various demonstrations and teach-ins simply because I wanted vengeance for Bill? BTW, who is a guy I never even voted for. THere were alot of Dems who didn't even like Clinton or voted for him.
-Forestlady

Originally posted by forestlady

Well, I have lived almost all of my life in California, up until this last June. Most everyone I knew there was a Democrat; not one I ever met ever said they wanted vengeance for the Clinton scandal. Maybe that's why the Dems you've talked to didn't "admit" to feeling that way;

.

You've now mis-quoted me as well. I specifically referred to democrats in public office as not wanting to admit they were seeking revenge. It was the CA dems I spoke with that did admit to feeling that way.

Please try to be more careful in your quoting.

Centurion, I've read this whole thread and nowhere could I find any mention of political officeholders until your very last post; you talked about Democrats in general and even your last post seemed to me to be pretty vague.

How did I misquote you? That was your quote, right?

-Forestlady