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A scenario I can't work out

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posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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Imagine this:

There is a terrorist on a bus, and you know he is a suicide bomber, and you know which person he is. You have a gun, and you can kill him. BUT:

1. it is a sin to kill someone,
2. It is also a sin to fail to do something, in this case to prevent the murder of the 20+ people on the bus.

So which is the greater sin?




posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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You have it wrong,
It is a SIN to commit Murder, that is to kill intentionally and with premeditation, you are not doing that when a terrorist is on the bus are you ??
Also killing people in the name of GOD has happened through out the ages and the military and police do it regularly. It is a greater sin to not do your duty when GOD tests you.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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I think that you both got it wrong. The bible forbids KILLING. It forbids murder as well. However, it also permits these actions in may situations.

As far as the original question goes. I would disregard any nothion of sin when it comes to rationalizing situations like that. If you bother with the symantics of the bible, you will eventually confuse yourself as you try to peice together contradictory information. We as people, humans, don't need the bible to tell us what is right or wrong. We know it already. We feel it. You can lie to yourself, saying its god or the bible that gives you that direction, but its not.

So, your on the bus. The bible is going to do you absolutely no good here. Maybe you can hit the guy on the head with it, or break a window out with it to distract him. Could help you avoid the shooting. Just dont look at the bible, or christianity for help. Look to your head.....thats where logic sits.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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The Old Testiment in the Bible does not forbid killing. In fact there are many instances when the killing of innocents, and even children and babies, was commanded by God.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by Classified Info
The Old Testiment in the Bible does not forbid killing. In fact there are many instances when the killing of innocents, and even children and babies, was commanded by God.


Wars, murder, lies, and deceipt were all part of gods will in the old testament. I believe you are specifically referring to when god commanded that a man kill his own son. And the idiot was going to. What a heart this god fellow must have to pull a prank such as that.

Like I said above, bible forbids killing and murder, but also permits them. I am illustrating an obvious contradiction. One out of many that make looking to the bible useless when in comes to issues such as this. The ten commandments forbid killing, not murder. It does not say, "Thou shalt not kill unless it is self defense". It says not to kill, period.

Plenty of room for confusion there, but what about your own personal logic. You know what you need to do. Your real struggle should not be whether or not to kill the phsyco, but rather gathering your courage in a way that still allows you to think things through thouroughly so you dont mess up and accidentally set off the bomb or something.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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In any situation, trust your gut/your first instinct--that is, if it's not one of self-preservation, but such as the scenario given here.

The sort of gut instinct that some of listen to and so therefore realize is correct every time, that is God and the Spirit of Truth. Our emotional reaction comes second, but that's the one most people follow. The remainder of people intellectualize, often until the moment of opportunity is past.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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The Old Testiment in the Bible does not forbid killing. In fact there are many instances when the killing of innocents, and even children and babies, was commanded by God.


Gosh, we could put that GOD right up alongside of Hitler, Saddam, and Bush. Why would GOD command others to kill a portion of him/her/itself?



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater

The Old Testiment in the Bible does not forbid killing. In fact there are many instances when the killing of innocents, and even children and babies, was commanded by God.


Gosh, we could put that GOD right up alongside of Hitler, Saddam, and Bush. Why would GOD command others to kill a portion of him/her/itself?


Honestly, you have to look at the broad picture with the bible. Most of those instances occured in the old testament. The old testament is a compilation of books from many cultures and time periods. Much of which was before any science existed to explain away things like natural disasters, and disease.

Something people learn early on as children is cause and effect. If I do "A", then "B". Early humans knew little explanation of anything. The only explanations they knew were of events they caused and/or observed directly. So, when something happened such as a death from disease, or natural event, they had only one thought process. "Who did it".

Explaining events without a full understanding of them lead to the development of "gods", and these gods were cruel. They were fearsome. This is carried over into the bible mainly in the old testament. Although somewhat in the new as well. It was exploited.

The christian movement in its early stages, became government. A government that was greedy for power. The awful stories you hear in the bible caused a fear of god amongst the populations. A fear that caused them to shell out all the money they had just to stay out of hell.

I guess it is just possible those things are in the bible for a combination of reasons, starting from early humanity. Finishing with a greedy, more intelligent and power hungry organization.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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Failure to protect the innocent is a "sin" in my book.
Especially if you know that you could do it.

To the Bible scholar people here:

"Thou shalt not kill"...
Is MURDER the more appropriate word there?
Thou shalt not murder?



posted on Dec, 17 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Sight2reality

Wars, murder, lies, and deceipt were all part of gods will in the old testament. I believe you are specifically referring to when god commanded that a man kill his own son. And the idiot was going to. What a heart this god fellow must have to pull a prank such as that.


No, I was referring to the disobediance of King Saul. It can be found in the book of Samuel 1, Cha.15.

Samuel 1, Cha.15; v.1-3




Samuel said to Saul: "It was I the Lord sent to annoint you king over his people Israel. Now, therefor, listen to the message of the Lord. This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: "I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and woman, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camel and asses.


To put a peoples under the ban, as used in the Old Testiment, was nothing more than a war of complete extermination.

Saul did not carry out this commandment and through his disobedience it led to his downfall which opened up the way for David to become King.



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by apex
Imagine this:

There is a terrorist on a bus, and you know he is a suicide bomber, and you know which person he is. You have a gun, and you can kill him. BUT:

1. it is a sin to kill someone,
2. It is also a sin to fail to do something, in this case to prevent the murder of the 20+ people on the bus.

So which is the greater sin?


If not forgiven, the least of sins is the same as the greatest of sins. When one is blinded to other options, aim for the head. God forgives.


[edit on 18-12-2005 by Raphael_UO]



posted on Dec, 18 2005 @ 03:59 PM
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Efficient advice, Raphael!



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