Very similar to African slavery songs.


...
(Peopl.e can be... cruel: "until they had almost, but not quite, suffocated to death; then the party was taken down from the gallows, and disembowelled while still alive; and while the entrails were still lying on the street, where the executioners stomped all over them, the victim was tied to four large farm horses, and literally torn into five parts - one to each limb and the remaining torso." No wonder they thought to put religeon into code)

[edit on 16/12/05 by The Surrealist]

The links seem to cover both sides. So I guess the title should be "The Twelve Days Of Christmas = or ≠Catholic Code"

[edit on 12/16/2005 by eaglewingz]

Eaglewingz, actually the snopes article was to discount the myth that The Twelve Days... was a Christian code. This article differenciates between Christian and Catholic, although I must say in all honesty, I don't see a lot of difference.

Sure they got statues and pray to saints, but I've heard a THOUSAND times that saints, angels, and Christ hold totally different positions and NO saint or angel is adored, as is Christ.

Surrealist, THAT'S a nasty way to go! Did you ever see the movie Braveheart? That's exactly what they did to Mel Gibson in the ending.

N-A-S-T-Y way to go!



[edit on 16-12-2005 by Toelint]

In otherwords, it's a bit of a stretch.

Not an uncommon practice in Catholic church history. There have been a number of secular acquisitions throughout the ages since the birth of Christ. True, it helped spread the Word through native cultural means but I do not agree with the practice.

I've heard of why playing cards are Christian, though a trip to Vegas tells a different story entirely



[edit on 16-12-2005 by saint4God]

Old news. Catholics used the 12 Days of Christmas
to teach the faith when it was illegal to do so in
Protestant run areas of the world. The faith could
be taught without fear of being butchered or tortured
by the protestants.

Originally posted by Toelint


This is really quite cool!!

[edit on 16-12-2005 by Toelint]

Whats cool about it? One site says it is a myth the other says there is no evidence either way for certain. In other words the majority lean towards it being a hoax.

[edit on 12/16/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Old news. Catholics used the 12 Days of Christmas
to teach the faith

This sounds right, but...

Originally posted by FlyersFan
when it was illegal to do so in
Protestant run areas of the world. The faith could
be taught without fear of being butchered or tortured
by the protestants.

Let's not go tit-for-tat else we'll have to review the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre . It's history and we love each other now, yes?

I wasn't tit for tatting. Not at all.
We are talking history of the 12 days of Christmas song.
It's just fact.

St. Bartholomews day Massacre?
Sure ... we can chat about it. Ya' wanna
start a thread about it? I'm sure that
there are plenty of ways Catholics
wronged others at that. Just as there
are plenty of ways Protestants wronged
Catholics at other places ... one of which
helped create the 12 days of Christmas.

No tit-for-tatting .... just history.
No agenda here. Didn't try to make it
sound like there was. Definately NOT
the intention.


[edit on 12/16/2005 by FlyersFan]

I disagree with the assertion that the song is "encoded" as such. Snopes is correct here. There is no actual content to the song, no correlation between the numbered items and their alleged explanation, and most importantly, there are no inherent lessons to be taught and no knowledge to be passed or preserved with the song.

Zip

Originally posted by FlyersFan
St. Bartholomews day Massacre?
Sure ... we can chat about it. Ya' wanna
start a thread about it? I'm sure that
there are plenty of ways Catholics
wronged others at that. Just as there
are plenty of ways Protestants wronged
Catholics at other places ... one of which
helped create the 12 days of Christmas.

Nah, no need to start a thread on it, I think you've represented it in a balanced way here. I just noticed the wording wasn't "persecution" or "other church leaders". I'm curious to specifics on the Protestants and their torture/beatings if you have them regarding the 12-days teachings.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
No tit-for-tatting .... just history.
No agenda here. Didn't try to make it
sound like there was. Definately NOT
the intention.

Fair enough



[edit on 16-12-2005 by saint4God]

Okay, we need to settle this. Are any members here Catholic? Surely, a priest can explain all of this, and I've met plenty enough to know that priests LOVE sitting down and kicking this kind of stuff around.

How about it? Any Catholics out there, get your priest to hook up with us!

Originally posted by Toelint
Okay, we need to settle this. Are any members here Catholic? Surely, a priest can explain all of this, and I've met plenty enough to know that priests LOVE sitting down and kicking this kind of stuff around.

How about it? Any Catholics out there, get your priest to hook up with us!

I used to be Catholic, does that count? They certainly never taught this song in catechism classes. I'm going with snopes on this one.

Originally posted by Toelint
Are any members here Catholic?

Yes, i am. We have always been taught that this
song was created by Catholics under persecution
so they could teach and preserve the Catholic faith
in the face of bitter persecution in England/Europe.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Old news.

Yes, but look at the snopes article that debunks this as urban myth. What do you think of the claim that there is nothing especially catholic, as opposd to anglican, in the song?

Also, I would expect that there be a stronger connection between the items in the song and the object they encode. Calling Birds might be good for 'four evangelists', but why are milking maids correlated to the beatitudes (possibly because milkmaids are stereotyped as beautiful?), what are the nine fruits of the holy spirit and why are they associated with dancing women, or jumping men with the 10 commandments, or drummers with the Apostles creed? Why are hens representing 'faith hope and charity', and also where are these things specifically a part of the religion?

What in the code is punishable by death?

I'm Catholic and went to Catholic school from K thru 12. I never heard of the 12 days of Christmas song having anything to do with a secret code . If it was a secret code it seems like they could have done a better job symbolicily. I don't know if I could ever remember all that non-sensical code. I graduated high school in 65 so I can only speak to the time prior to that and after 1979 when my children entered Catholic school.

I think I have to go with Snopes on this one.

Like duster, I attended Catholic school for 12 years.
I never heard any reference to the occult meaning of this song. And, I have never sung it during any religious function.

I buy the snopes explanation.