Missing Passengers Carnival Cruise

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posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 06:54 AM
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What is going on here? People are missing from passenger cruise lines around the world and the media is playing it down. There are more people reported missing each week.
 



www.google.com
msnbc.msn.com...

The International Council of Cruise Lines told me that in the last year alone at least a dozen people have disappeared from cruise ships, most of whom remain unaccounted for.


— Clint Van Zandt
Former FBI Profiler



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Is this a "Rapture" I am not Christian. Could this be abductions or a human trafficking ring? Most of the missing people are younger and better looking than a lot of people.
Does this tie in to missing children in anyway?

Why are more and more people not returning from cruises?

Related News Links:
jacksonville.bizjournals.com
www.20thcenturyliners.com
www.cruise-addicts.com

[edit on 16-12-2005 by asala]




posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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This is something that the media is creating with banner headlines, Dateline specials on tragic honeymmons and that the governent will use as a way to retrieve more money from the Cruise industry through regulations. More people die in bathtubs each year than have 'disappeared' from cruise ships in the past 10 years.

My wife and step father are the industry, and it is a non issue. Security is tight on the ships (you just don't not see it). ONce you are in port, remember, you are in a foriegn country. It doesn't matter if you took a boat or a plane or drove a car there. If someone sees you, and wants to harm you, they will.

Crusing is a very safe way to enjoy a vacation, and I quote a number



For calendar year 2002, the cruise data identifies 3,575 cruises and 7.6 million passengers carried by 10 cruise lines.



I know that the industry has grown about 15% since then, so we are talking about close to 9 million people traveling a year, a few people
go missing, who very well could be trying to dissappear, and panic occurs.

Take a cruise and relax......



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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esdad, what do you have to say in regards to the missing honeymooner? according to the news reports i have heard, the ships captain allowed normal boarding/deboarding at the next port (turkey, i believe), without further investigating the possibility of murder. is this blown out of proportion for headlines, or is this a serious problem that needs addressing?



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:25 AM
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Seriously think about it for a moment.

It's not too hard if you've ever actually been on a cruise.

Someone could fall off at night. I actually had a dumb buddy of mine climb up to the next deck on the outside railings of a Royal Caribbean boat. At night. Alone. Had he fallen, he would have been gone. We didn’t even know about it until he told us at breakfast.

Also, these boats stop in ports, like Nassau, for example. Then, they let anybody off who wants to get off. You're supposed to be back by a certain time, and they will leave without you if you don't come back. I had 2 other friends who almost missed the boat because they got drunk the night before, passed out on the beach, woke up, cut through a junkyard, and ended up stranded on top of a tool shed with a pair of angry Dobermans down below.

Finally, many port towns are POOR. Relying on tourist and shipping trades to survive. Think about this recipe I found in the latest issue of Port Living:



Add 100 parts Poor, Downtrodden people
Mix in 2 parts Rich, Drunk, Easy-Target Tourists
Add a splash of Desperation and a pinch of Alcohol
Now add 300 more pinches of Alcohol
Stir in a half cup of Intoxicating Local Music and Food
Cook for 24 hours at high heat


Know what it makes? DANGER!

A scary situation for people too dumb and drunk to realize they are in a scary situation.

Cook it a little longer and you get ROBBERY!! AND MURDER!! AND A FEW FOLKS A YEAR WHO DON’T MAKE IT BACK TO THE BOAT!!

These things can happen pretty easily, especially when you have a boat full of 1000+ drunk idiots who go into the ports and get even dumber and drunker.

It is a fantastic testament to the cruise lines' competence that, given the alcohol, stupidity, drugs, alcohol, and alcohol on those boats, they still only manage to lose 12 per year.

Ahh, those were some great vacations…



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:30 AM
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I know I shouldn't laugh. This is from the end of your article.


To add insult to painful injury, Annette’s husband subsequently received a form letter from this same cruise line offering his missing wife a chance to win a free cruise.


Don't laugh, Ham.
Don't laugh.
It's wrong.
Don't laugh.
Don't...

Too late.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:37 AM
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Actually, the media are not ignoring this problem. As someone noted the percentage of people who go missing from cruise ships is miniscule, but nonetheless, it is a problem, especially if it's you or a love one whom it happens to. Someone noted that security aboard ships is good, but this has not been borne out in the cases that have garnered headlines and there are plenty of experts who would beg to differ. The problem has less to do with security aboard the vessels as it is with who has juridiction over any crime that is committed against those who take these cruises and the cruise lines can often keep victims and families in a quandry until the deadlines for legal action have expired.

Submitter, please read this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 2005/12/15 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:38 AM
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esdad, what do you have to say in regards to the missing honeymooner? according to the news reports i have heard, the ships captain allowed normal boarding/deboarding at the next port (turkey, i believe), without further investigating the possibility of murder. is this blown out of proportion for headlines, or is this a serious problem that needs addressing?


Do you know how many people during Spring Break fall off of balconies each year here in Florida? At least a half a dozen.

This is sensationalism at best. As I stated, ANY time you vacation anywhere, there is a chance of crime or even an accident. The case of the honeymooners sounds like they were drunk, someone helped them back to the cabin, and he could have stumbled out drunk and fallen over the balcony. It could have been a cruiose ship or a hotel in Vegas, and he MAY have fallen.

My step father has been in the business for years, and he states this has never been an issue. There is on board security, and cameras everywhere. Your door keys can show who comes and goes and when. The honeymooners was a sad tragedy, not a sign of things to come.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:45 AM
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so youre saying that you agree with the captain's reported actions of allowing people off of the ship during an investigation?



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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SI've been on cruises. It is not easy to "fall off" in a drunken stupor...I think, in this case the media is giving this attention and rightfully so.

They left that bride in Turkey with all her belongings so the cruise could continue...

What in the world is going on?
Between the food poisonings and now dissapearances, these cruise ships will be out of business soon.

Arent thse cruise ships investigated?



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 09:06 AM
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Folks, this is an isolated incident, and it is VERY easy to fall of a balcony in one of your rooms on a ship, or have you always had an inside cabin dgtempe? It is called bieng cautious, and when drunk, that often does not happen. The suite we had for our honeymoon had a baclony and the railing did not come above my waist, and if it was wet it is very concievable someone could fall off leaning over to take a picture, or if drunk to slip and fall.

They can let anyone OFF the ship, and they have photos taken against your pass and ID Each time you board and disembark at all ports so they know exactly who was on this boat. I am sure that the captain was informed by authoritites over what to do with the investigation and the passengers.

A cruise shio cannot strand 2000 other passengers if something of this nature would occur, so I do not see it strange to move on with the cruise and leave someone behind, as they did with his wife.





Mr Smith, 26, from Greenwich, Connecticut, vanished in the early hours from the Royal Caribbean ship Brilliance of the Seas in the Mediterranean, between Greece and Turkey.

Eleven days into his honeymoon, Mr Smith was seen that night drinking heavily and gambling with his bride, Jennifer Hagel-Smith, and passengers.

At some point after 4am he vanished — but not before people in nearby cabins heard thuds, male voices and furniture being moved in the newlyweds’ quarters. Ominously, a big bloodstain was found early the next morning on awnings above lifeboats two levels below his ninth-deck cabin.

A teenage girl took a photograph of the bloodstain, giving the FBI, which has been investigating Mr Smith’s disappearance, vital evidence. A bloody handprint was also found but soon after the ship docked, it was cleaned and painted over.

Brett Rivkind, the lawyer for Mr Smith’s family, say the disappearance was also suspicious because of bloodstains found inside and outside the cabin. The family is accusing Royal Caribbean of trying to cover up a murder to avoid bad publicity and are suing the company.




A lawyer is stating that there is a cover up, Royal Carribean is fully cooperating, and the crew in the morning cleaned part of the evidence before they knew what it was. I remember on Dateline hearing that forensic evidence was recovered, so I do not see a cover up, but a lawyer who wants to make some money and he is attmepting to discredit the entire cruise industry.

Grady makes a good point, that is does fall into local jurisdiction in many cases, and of course people dissappearing is not acceptable, but it is not a epidemic on the high seas.

and yes, they are investigated and watched, by the NTSB, as this report states and explains is one of the safest forms of travel...

www.ntsb.gov...



[edit on 15-12-2005 by esdad71]

[edit on 15-12-2005 by esdad71]



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Folks, this is an isolated incident, and it is VERY easy to fall of a balcony in one of your rooms on a ship, or have you always had an inside cabin dgtempe?


So but I am not buying that isolated incident bit. This is the second one in pass few months, both on Royal carribean no less and in both cases they claimed it was an accident without investigating.

The one with the honeymooner had evidence of wrong doing in the form of blood stains near the cabin and on the rail outside the ship. The wife also kicked him in the groin which was witnessed by other passengers, there were also reports of a commotion in the cabin (Again reported by passengers) and let us not forget he had 10 or 15 grand with him and the elusive Russian passengers. Nah I for one am not buying it~!

Check out this link you will find a link to a transcript of the events that occured. Once you have read it, then get back to us and tell us something is not fishy here.

www.atsnn.com...

[edit on 12/15/2005 by shots]



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 05:03 AM
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From the link:


Virginian Amy Lynn Bradley was 23-years-old when she vanished from the Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines Rhapsody of the Seas in March 1998 while traveling with her family in the Caribbean. Her parents still keep the emotional porch light turned on at their home, awaiting her prayed for return. Amy left her cabin early one morning for a smoke and never returned,


A few years ago my sisters wanted the five of us to take a cruise together. My grandmother (in her nineties) got wind of it and sent us a newspaper clipping. It was about the dangers of rape on cruise ships.

The article explained that most of the rapes were unreported since they happened in international waters and there was no authority to do anything about it (or so the victims were told). It had stories about newlywed wives and young girls going back to the rooms alone or heading out alone on the ship being attacked, mostly by cruise ship employees. The families were for all intents and purposes bought off to keep silent, being told that the attacks could not be prosecuted anyway. In most cases the perpetrators were just kicked off the ships at the next stop.

They was a little hand written note with the article from my grandmother (it was sent to another sibling) that she was afraid I would go off for a cigarette alone.

This clipping she sent was from her Sunday paper, not some tabloid. It left me with the impression that crime was highly under reported on cruise ships.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 09:30 AM
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A cruise ship is the safest way to travel abroad to other countries. Now, there is a big difference between the passengers on a 3 day to Nassau and a 13 Day Baltic cruise on OCeanic.

If you are a young woman, and you drink too much, you are more apt to be raped or attacked by the schmuck buying you the drinks, than a cruise ship employee. They helped me and my wife one night on our honeymoon, made sure we made it back to our room after a night of drinking, and even remembered my request for breakfast in the morning.

Remember though, young women and drinking is alot worse during Spring Break in Florida, or spending a few nights in Cancun, instead of getting back on a ship.

MEdia sensationalism and statistics will get you every time.....



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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A cruise ship is the safest way to travel abroad to other countries.


No one is arguing that point. What you seem to be missing is the fact that in at least two recent cases Royal Caribbean claimed they were accidents even though evidence clearly showed there was a possibility of foul play.

Scarborough Country is doing a story on this tonight on MSNBC you might want to watch it and get educated as to just what is taking place.

I would also like to point out that now Senators and Congressmen are so concerned they may propose legislation that may prevent this from happening.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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esdad, I just want to clarify that some of the girls attacked in the article were basically children. They were not drinking.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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I am sorry, but I have to stand by what I have experienced and heard from others in this industry. However, your child is more apt to be attacked at her own school than aboard a cruise ship. I feel this is truly bieng blown out of proportion and 6 months from know it will be people raped on airline flights or child molested by steward on a Jetblue flight to NY. News makes ratings, and this is hot right now.
It is too bad that you are so disillusioned to thinking there is a boogeyman crewmember on each cruiseship that you cannot experience it for yourself.



posted on Dec, 17 2005 @ 05:16 AM
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I don't think anyone is arguing that cruise travel is comparitively safe travel Esdad. and a wonderful experience.

I do think you are missing something though. The point being made is that regardless of the numbers, when crimes occur on a cruise ship, they are not held to the same standards of law, invesitgation or victims rights as if they had happened elsewhere. This is a problem that needs to be rectified.

Regarding this being blown out of proportion, I disagree. The article I spoke about was at least five years ago. If anything, I believe this is a largely ignored phenomenon.



posted on Dec, 17 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by shots
What you seem to be missing is the fact that in at least two recent cases Royal Caribbean claimed they were accidents even though evidence clearly showed there was a possibility of foul play.


Understood, but what you and DG seem to be missing with this "it's not an isolated incident" talk is that it IS isolated. This doesn't happen often. Furthermore, peak cruise season just ended. OF COURSE, given 12 incidents per year, most are going to happen within a short time of each other.

You are correct in being concerned with Royal C's "investigation," though. But I wouldn't be concerned about taking a cruise.


Originally posted by shotsI would also like to point out that now Senators and Congressmen are so concerned they may propose legislation that may prevent this from happening.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What legislation will that be? The "No killing your spouse on a cruise" act? Way to waste taxpayer money there. The legislature needs to get their heads back in the game and quit worrying about rare occurances in a pretty well regulated industry. We have way more important problems.

Maybe if the news quit hyping this stuff so much, the legislature would stop being so hyper about it?



posted on Dec, 17 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Here is what I am talking about:

www.crimedoctor.com...


Laws May Not Protect You
Although you boarded a ship in a US port doesn’t mean that you are protected by our justice system. Most ships are registered in non-US countries and travel in territorial waters where US laws might not apply. The cruise industry does not report crime data consistently, if at all, to the FBI or have a database of ships with the most crime problems. Shipboard crimes sometimes fall into a "no man's land" of law enforcement. A crime can occur between two people of different nationalities, on a ship from a third country, and in the territorial waters of a fourth country. The governing law is the International Maritime Law and is not as well developed as US law. Reporting a crime on board a cruise ship doesn't mean anything will be done or that the crime will ever be investigated. The FBI is the only US law enforcement agency that can investigate a major crime but only if it occurs in International waters, otherwise crimes are reported to the jurisdiction of the closest foreign country and to the embassies of the parties involved. Prosecution of crime, in many cases, will be left in the hands of the local port authority where no one can predict the outcome.


Note that the cruise industry does not report crime consistently. There's my first problem. How could one even pretend to think they know what crime statistics are on cruise ships?

Second, as you can see, is that few people realize the implications of the above information, or are even aware of these facts to consider when taking a cruise. Of course, greater awareness makes for a safer vacation, but there are definately some horror stories out there if you surf around and want to look at them.



posted on Dec, 17 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Second, as you can see, is that few people realize the implications of the above information, or are even aware of these facts to consider when taking a cruise. Of course, greater awareness makes for a safer vacation, but there are definately some horror stories out there if you surf around and want to look at them.


This is lawyer speak for use in a civil suit I am sure. C'mon, it is common sense that if you are in another country, that US law will not apply. How few people do not know what 'International waters' means? Honestly. some of the comments and rhetoric are a bit offensive to the local law enforcement of every port that is visited. Basically, what everyone is saying is that the US should control and be able to monitor the 'crusie industry' for crime.right? Sounds like the world police to me.

Trust me, this is something that will only cost the cruise industry 'more money', create large business contracts to appease new laws and hopefully one of the effects is that there are more security measures put in place and there are no more occurances. INa perfect world

It is still one of the safest ways to travel, since basically there are 7 million people cruising per year, and there have been a half dozen incidents in the past 5 or so years.





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