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Looming Transit Strike Could Cripple New York City

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posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by boogyman
How dare those lazy workers expect their wages to keep up with inflation!


Inflation is 2004 was 2.68%; the transit workers want 8% a year for 3 years and turned down an offer for 3%, 4%, and 3.5% for the first, second and third years over the 3 yr. contract.



How dare those lazy workers stick up for the rights of future workers!


Yeah, they say they're protecting the rights of the unborn, yet give all their political contributions to the Democratic party which supports abortion...




How dare those lazy workers expect to be able to retire at a decent age!


They can retire at 55 now with full benefits and they wanted this lowered to 50! The MTA wanted to raise it to 62, but in their latest offer kept it at 55. Nobody I know of can retire at that age with full benefits.




How dare those lazy workers expect to be treated with the respect they deserve!


They make more money and have greater benefits than practically anyone in NYC with similar jobs, I think they should be happy with what they got, not hurting everyone else to get more than they deserve. They're acting like spoiled brat children IMO.

[edit on 12/21/2005 by djohnsto77]




posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 08:30 PM
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This is absolutely an outrage! And right here at Christmas? All Union leaders should lined up against a wall and shot for conspiracy to bring economic chaos to the nation!

I'm not a prideful person, but I take pride in the fact that I've always hate the Labor Union and I've got nothing good to say about their bastard leadership!


P.S. Hang tight people of New York! You guys have gone through a lot more than this!


And I wish you a Merry Christmas.


Edit: And a Happy New Year! Like I said, hang tight! This will be over with soon. It's just an outrage they'd even consider striking at this time of year.


[edit on 21/12/05 by Intelearthling]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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Who does anyone think is suffering the least with this strike, the people that have to walk 20 blocks to work, the employees not getting a days pay and then being fined two days pay for each strike day, the union officials who can't collect dues directly from member's paychecks and are paying a million dollar fine every day.......or the guys who run the MTA?

As far as it being illegal, its a violation of the Taylor Law, from the '60s apparently, and the last time there was a violation of that law was in the 80's when the TWU struck for a few days. However, the Union and Employees can get out of paying hte fines ultimately if they can show that the MTA forced the situation, by, for example, not bargaining in good faith. Like, for example, saying you have no money, and then in reality have a surge in profits.

Everyone acts like toussaint is the bad guy here, or the union workers. I don't know if I'd be striking if I were in their situation, but I sure as heck wouldn't pretend that its only them being unreasonable.

If they are able to strangle the money out of the guys that run the MTA, more power to them. The MTA sure as hell ain't gonna take care of them, nor the city, if there are problems later, so they're smart to get what they can when the gettin's good.


edit to add
The strike is clearly illegal, and the punishment is fines -thats it-, not jailtime, and there's no 'this is terrorism' b/s here.

Anyone that thinks that this is unpeacable, has, I am sorry to say, no idea what a violent strike is.

NO ONE has been killed yet. No scab driven buses have plowed into chock full of pedestrian sidewalks because the unioners cut the lines or removed the brakepads.

Not a single scab has been beaten to death, and not a single MTA official or mangament's house has been burnt down. Hell, they haven't even been harrased.


[edit on 21-12-2005 by Nygdan]



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Could this be one of those wacky event that may trigger the civil that Titor was talking about?

Let see what happened on Christmas day...



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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Titor's time has long since passed. There wasn't going to be one event, but an event just like the incident at Waco with the Branch Davidian Cult, each and every month of the year. Of 2004 infact, but some revisions put it in 2005. Regardless, there hasn't been a single incident even approaching the scale and drama of Waco. This all has nothing to do with the internet hoax that is John Titor.



posted on Dec, 21 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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United We Stand and Divided We Fall

If you all only knew how much power you really had over the leaders of this planet. If you could only set aside the petty differences of being arab, hispanic, black, white, jew, christian, muslim, hindu, homosexual, heterosexual, fat, skinny, poor, middle class, liberal, republican, libetarian, whether you want to say Merry Christmas or Happy Hollidays,. You have seen what just thousands of workers can do to the $atan Machine in just 2 days.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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According to mediators union leaders are now recommending that workers return to their jobs. A vote will be held later today, and if approved full service could be restored in 12 - 24 hours:



Reuters

NEW YORK, Dec 22 (Reuters) - Leaders of striking bus and subway workers in New York agreed on Thursday to a return to work after talks at which the union and transit authorities undertook to resume talks on a contract, mediators said.

Some 34,000 workers in the Transport Workers Union Local 100 walked off the job on Tuesday after contract talks broke down over pay, healthcare and pensions, stranding some 7 million passengers who use subways and buses each day.

City officials have estimated the strike could cost New York some $1 billion in the first three days, hitting retailers and other businesses at the height of the holiday season.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by magnito_student
If you all only knew how much power you really had over the leaders of this planet.


Exactly, the American worker and the American public holds the key to make politicians start rethinking for who they really work.

The strikes in NY are a very good example of the power of the people.

But instead of rejoicing on that power the government will label illegal and impose fines to squelch them.

Learn people, learn, even when some are losing in this struggle this will show how far the government will go to keep people in this country from raising against powers and relegate them as trouble makers.

We the people hold the power but the government doesn't want you to know that anymore.

Onces in a while governments need to be shown the power of the people over politicians and corporate interest.

I wonder what will be next, arrest? violation or changing laws against the people? as usual we will have to wait and see.

I feel sorry for the inconvenience of the city that is losing money after all is all about the money that the city is losing, so who cares about the workers they are nothing but trouble makers. Right?



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Why should these guys get raises that put them above the level of almost all other government workers?

Again even though it looks like they are going back to work, the union is going to keep pushing for this outrageous 8% per year raise, because then they get more money for the union. That is all this is about again folks, the union wants their cut of the profits…

I would rather see the surplus of money go to improving the system. I think that all these jokers that went on strike and broke the law should get to do community service. A good place for them to start is by cleaning up their own stations.

Hell if I was the mayor I would use the 1 Billion to automate the whole thing fire anyone that went on strike, criminally prosecute the ring leaders, and never have to worry about this kind of problem again…


[edit on 12/22/2005 by defcon5]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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It's kinda sad how distorted some people view this whole strike, so I'll try and be helpful and clarify a bit of what is actually going on.

New York City has always had a problem that a lot of you just don't understand. We are a city of millions that is completely dependent on having certain routines running. That's why when it snows 8 inches we effectively shut down, that's why a blackout stops everything in its tracks, and that's why a transit strike has resulted in billions of dollars in damages and YES probably some deaths as well.

How exactly is an elderly cancer patient supposed to get to his/her chemotherapy treatment? Should they strap on a pair of rollerblades and a posterboard saying "power to the people"? How are home aides that make 8 bucks an hour supposed to get to their homebound, crippled, elderly, helpless, incapacitated patients? Fork over $40 IF they can find a taxi from their community to their patient?

It's pitiful that no one gives a split second thought to those people.

Yeah, I've been waking up 2 and a half hours earlier to get to work, and get home 2 hours later, but I CAN. Some people can't.

But no... this is about the PEOPLE right? Power to the people! Yes, the people, the 8 million people of New York, including sick and old, and helpless, who are getting sicker by the minute so a punk can get his face on TV.

I agree that the transit workers do hard work and deserve a raise. So do cops, and firemen, and ems workers, and teachers, and a whole lot of other people. But this isn't some cartoony perfect world where each of us has a pot of gold under our rainbow and smiles, puffy clouds and happy mountains.

You want more money, good, get your "elected" union head to try and work things out like the rest of the world does. I'd LOVE an 18% raise like they're demanding. It ain't happening. Such is life.

The difference is, if I quit my job tomorrow no one else would die or suffer. In this case the MTA employees were deemed, quite properly, to be essential to the lives of the residents if this city. By walking off they have endangered everyone and that is unforgivable.

If some idealists out there don't like that, too bad. Reality hurts sometimes. If I were Santa I'd give them their 18% and nice pensions, I really wish I could. Walking off and destroying the city doesn't make that happen.

EDIT: Just to add something here, most people I know who work in the transportation industry are against this and would actually like to be working already. They are losing 2 days (potentially 3) salary for every day they don't show up. A lot of them (not greedy roger) use those checks to pay rent and bills, and to raise families. Whatever settlement they get, they've probably lost more by giving up 6 days' (possibly 9) pay already. Oh and there's nothing anyone can do about that. They're hurting themselves too. It's ridiculous.

[edit on 12-22-2005 by Djarums]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
According to mediators union leaders are now recommending that workers return to their jobs. A vote will be held later today, and if approved full service could be restored in 12 - 24 hours:


Yeah funny how once they where going to get criminally prosecuted for being in contempt of court they sent the "little guy" back to work…

Again this is all about the union leadership and $$, they could care less about the "mistreated" MTA workers, and they just proved it in front of the whole world…



State law prohibits public sector employees from striking and a court on Tuesday fined the union $1 million a day for the duration of the strike, while workers faced the loss of two days pay for each day they remained on strike.




[edit on 12/22/2005 by defcon5]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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defcon, thank you for being one of those people who actually understands this.

The scenario is this:

Dear 33,000 working men and women. We understand you are supporting your families, but we expect you to strike for the greater good and risk your livelihoods.

Uh wait a minute... 3 of us might get hauled into jail for contempt of court... we're not willing to sacrifice a few days in prison even though we asked you to give up so much more.

Back to work!!

Hypocrisy!



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 12:52 PM
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I guess for the good of the nation and for the good of the rest of the people some others in this country has to scarify themselves, die and be forgotten so money keeps circulating, ideologist keep flourishing, and we the people get silenced.

Yes the power of the people is dying for conveniences and the well being of others.

This the face of oppression in other countries and obviously it will eventually get here to our neck of the woods.

But its OK the government will come to the rescue big brother can not forget the ones that are been suffering with such a despicable strike. Right?

Everybody that is not in your side or in the government side is considered a minority or a trouble maker.


They better hurry up and get back to work so grandpa don't die waiting for a bus in the cold freezing morning.




posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I guess for the good of the nation and for the good of the rest of the people some others in this country has to scarify themselves, die and be forgotten so money keeps circulating, ideologist keep flourishing, and we the people get silenced.


How in the world is making 50k a year with a pension most people would kill for and fantastic health benefits considered being "forgotten" or "sacrificed". Spare me please.


This the face of oppression in other countries and obviously it will eventually get here to our neck of the woods.


Actually in other countries the labor movements would have probably executed Roger Toussaint for the way he relieved himself on the workers who counted on him.


But its OK the government will come to the rescue big brother can not forget the ones that are been suffering with such a despicable strike. Right?


This has nothing to do with "big brother" or whatever you're trying to imply. If the government shut down the trains you'd shriek bloody murder about it, but because it's one fabulously wealthy man who "represents" the workers you support it.


Everybody that is not in your side or in the government side is considered a minority or a trouble maker.


Darn right. One money and attention hungry man using 33,000 exploited guinea pigs is an enemy, trouble maker, and whatever other dramatic adjective you'd like me to use.


They better hurry up and get back to work so grandpa don't die waiting for a bus in the cold freezing morning.


That might rank up there with the most coldhearted things I have ever heard on ATS. Perhaps if you had a relative who was waiting desperately to be able to get to the doctor for chemotherapy (do you know what chemo is and why one doesn't delay it more than one session?) you'd view this a bit differently.

I am guilty of caring more about sick people than about greedy remnants of a day when corrupt union leaders exploited workers to pad their own pockets. Guilty as charged.

The interesting thing is that the hatred is so powerful in this city for the TWU that the entire labor union movement will never be the same again.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I guess for the good of the nation and for the good of the rest of the people some others in this country has to scarify themselves, die and be forgotten so money keeps circulating, ideologist keep flourishing, and we the people get silenced.

Yes the power of the people is dying for conveniences and the well being of others.


What are you on about?
This is not about the "Little Guy VS The Evil Corporation" here; It’s about Union nonsense. Their employees already make more then the average NY police officer or firefighter, why should they get more?
There is no profit sharing in the government, and that money should be going to the state to improve the state. It’s the union that is picking a fight because they want their cut of the profits through increasing MTA’s pay then hiking up their dues. I think you should go and do a little reading on Unions and see some of the crap they pull.


Originally posted by marg6043
This the face of oppression in other countries and obviously it will eventually get here to our neck of the woods.

But its OK the government will come to the rescue big brother can not forget the ones that are been suffering with such a despicable strike. Right?

Everybody that is not in your side or in the government side is considered a minority or a trouble maker.


I am pretty sure that you live down here near me. SO with that in mind, would you support the Sheriff’s office if they went to strike and walked off the job?
You know they are already well paid, their work environment is not too harsh, considering the inherent job dangers, they are not understaffed, etc…
How about the water department?

That is about what this is equivalent too.
There are some jobs in which you cannot strike, its illegal, this is one.
If Wal-mart employees went on strike I would be all for them, this is not that type of situation, period…



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Djarums

How in the world is making 50k a year with a pension most people would kill for and fantastic health benefits considered being "forgotten" or "sacrificed". Spare me please.


See that is your opinion if you are in favor you will see it as good but if you are against it you will see it as bad, perhaps for them is not enough, just an opinion.



Actually in other countries the labor movements would have probably executed Roger Toussaint for the way he relieved himself on the workers who counted on him.


Another opinion.



This has nothing to do with "big brother" or whatever you're trying to imply. If the government shut down the trains you'd shriek bloody murder about it, but because it's one fabulously wealthy man who "represents" the workers you support it.


Against opinions, I never said I am backing up anybody but rather point out what the power of the people can do in a city, regardless is the intentions are misleading.

Again when one side is dissatisfy the other side scream murder. If things get worst in NY and money stops flowing because the strike on the city, you bet your that the government will get involve.




Darn right. One money and attention hungry man using 33,000 exploited guinea pigs is an enemy, trouble maker, and whatever other dramatic adjective you'd like me to use.


Again opinion because you are dissatisfy with what is happening, perhaps the 33,000 workers do not feel like you or they would not be backing up the strike.



That might rank up there with the most coldhearted things I have ever heard on ATS. Perhaps if you had a relative who was waiting desperately to be able to get to the doctor for chemotherapy (do you know what chemo is and why one doesn't delay it more than one session?) you'd view this a bit differently.


Again using physiology to make others feel guilty but again I bet the city is making sure that doesn't happen but you are not going to post that right?



I am guilty of caring more about sick people than about greedy remnants of a day when corrupt union leaders exploited workers to pad their own pockets. Guilty as charged.


Again you are upset about the strike but as anybody that uses words very well we need to make others feel guilty too.



The interesting thing is that the hatred is so powerful in this city for the TWU that the entire labor union movement will never be the same again.


Well if the hatred is so strong I don't see anybody fighting back the strike is still on.

Opinion again, guilty trips and blame but like I say people in this country has the right to fight back let me know when the dissatisfy people of NY starts going against the strikers and force them into submission.

I guess they are waiting for the government to do it for them.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:31 PM
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The vote just came back from the Union Executive Board 36-5 (with 2 abstaining) to go back to work.

This strike was a stupid, illegal, dangerous mistake that has caused far more damage to the people of this city than they cared to hold on their shoulders.

You should note that a good portion of the 33,000 employees were against the strike, and apparently 36 of their Executive union board members heeded their call.

The people have spoken, the people have said "Mr. Toussaint, stop being a disgrace to humanity and let your union go back to work so people can LIVE their lives again."



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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Djarums

Then if the people has spoken then the people has been heard, and the people prevail.

Please do not mis judge somebody views of event just because they disagree with your point of view.

I was not insulting your post but just pointing out what the power of the people can do for a town a city and even a nation when everybody agree on a particular issue.



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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My problem is that people are taking this as a "us vs. the evil corporations or government". It's not.

The TWU leadership misrepresented it, terribly. Even their own parent union called them out and say they were full of it.

Like I said, I am a frequent rider of the MTA system, and I wish they could get their raises and all that, but sometimes there are issues when it comes to salaries, benefits etc.

The way to resolve those issues is through talks, and yeah those talks are rough, and there's yelling and cursing and fighting. That's how it is for all of the city employees. Cops, firemen etc included.

But to walk out? Maybe some businesses can do that, but this one can't. You have to remember Marg, and it's nothing against you, this is New York City. A city of 8 million people that is incapable of moving those people around without public transportation.

Imagine if all of the roads in your community were closed down for 3 days. Food, medicine, and other necessities become harder to get, don't they?

Sometimes, like in the event of a hurricane, that's unavoidable and people get sick and even die. But for that to happen because of a salary dispute? That's not fair to 8 million of us.

Mind you, the TWU has NOT LOST!!! They're just going back to work DURING the talks. Meaning the talks are still going on! The citizens of NYC don't want to screw anyone out of their checks etc. We just want to be able to move about and go to our jobs, and homes, and shops etc.

[edit on 12-22-2005 by Djarums]



posted on Dec, 22 2005 @ 01:49 PM
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Well I have been in NY many times and have used their public transportation, I imagine what can happen to a city as big as NY if everything comes to a halt, but is more inconvinieces than anything else.

BTW my grandmother is 76 and has been living in NY since she was 18 years old. he,he.

She still uses public transportation so she would have been one of the elderlies getting cold at the bus stop.



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