Attention all Christians...

Do you know your God? Now before I go any further I just want to say that I do not believe in the Christian God, and though I love studing "Religions", it never ceases to amaze me how blind Christians are.
Now recently I read some interesting stuff in the KJB that I would like to share with you, all of you. I was so amazed at this that well lets just say... I don't know why anyone would follow the Christian God.

Note: this is just a taster of what I have read.

1. Deuteronomy 4:24 "For the Lord your God, is a comsuming fire, a jealous God."

2. Deuteronomy 6:15 "Lest the wrath of the Lord, your God, flare up and destroy you from the face of the land; for the Lord, your God, who is in your midst, is a jealous God"

3. Joshua 24:19-20 "... he is a jealous God... and he will do evil to you and destroy you ..."

4. Deuteronmony 28:53 "that in the distress of the siege to which your enemy subjects you, you will eat the fruit of your womb, the flesh of your own sons and daughters who the Lord, your God, has given you." (( this continues in further verses, saying that your neighbor is not allowed you eat your children because their your food! ))

5. Judges 12:4-6 " Then Jephthah called together all the men of Gilead and fought against Ephrain, whom they defeated' for the Ephraimites had said, "You of Gilead are Ephraimite fugitives in territory belonging to Ephraim and Manasseh." The Gileadites took the fords of the Jordon toward Ephraim. When any of the fleeing Ephraimites said, "Let me pass," the men of Gilead would say to him, "Are you a Ephraimite?" If he answered "No!" they would ask him to say "Shibboleth." If he said "Sibboleth," not being able to give the proper pronunciation, they would seize him and kill him at the fords of Jordan. Thus forty-two thousand Epyhraimites fell at that time." (( This was ordered by the LORD YOUR GOD))

6. 1 Samuel 16:14-16 "The spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and he was tormented by an evil spirit sent by the Lord. So the servents of Saul said to him: "Please An evil spirit of the Lord is tormenting you. If your lordship will order it,we your servants here in attendance on you, will look for a man skilled in playing the harp. When the evil spirit of God comes over you, he will play and you will feel better. "

7. 1 Samuel 18:10-11 " The next day and evil spirit from God came over Saul, and he raged in his house. David was in attendance, playing the harp as at other times, while Saul was holding as at other times, while Saul was holding his spear. Saul poised the spear, thinking to nail David to the wall, but twice David escaped him"

While there is much more that I could include here, more cannabalizm, rape, etc encouraged by the Christian God, I will save it for later. The point of this is, whether Jesus came or not is indifferent to the "'personality" of the Christian God. This God, the Christian God is and EVIL God and even he says so.
So I must say that by this Gods own evidence (the Bible), I would not follow this God. The more I read the worse it gets.
I know that some of you will say well the bible has been messed with, I will agree to this. Never the less if something has been written over and over, it will reinforce the message. The message I get is that God is and evil, wrathful, jealous (who does he have to be jealous of? I mean really is this a God with low self esteem?). He killed over 10 million people in the old testament, is this the God you really want to follow, I ask you???

:bnghd:



Mod Edit: cap title

[edit on 15-12-2005 by kinglizard]

i too do not subscribe to the christian faith and do to a certain extent agree with some of what you say......
but im willing to bet you a hundred dollars by tommorrow you will have atleast a page of christians all saying...
"you are taking the bible to literally ...(insert line) ...really means that god blah blah blah and let me twist this around so that it sounds like jesus this and that and blah blah blah"
i often find when posting and debating , some of these people will read scripture and then try to twist it around our have some clever annalogy bridging all of the bible together.....i notice thell take some lines and interpet them as they are written ...then when you bring something up that may discredit them or show something negative , thell twist it up and make it fit there criteria........

proverbs 15:28- "the godly think before speaking"


a jealous person is a person of envy, God envys our desires for the world instead for Him, any god period would be a jealous god, even the devil is jealous of humans that go for the righteous and not the bad.

Originally posted by Zaimless
I don't know why anyone would follow the Christian God.

Note: this is just a taster of what I have read.

Where did you get the idea that OT scriptures present the christian god?

The point of this is, whether Jesus came or not is indifferent to the "'personality" of the Christian God. This God, the Christian God is and EVIL God and even he says so.

'He says so' what? That He is the christian god? That is He is evil?

What it says in Isaiah 45:7 is not really open to dispute:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Jeremiah 49:37 says '...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger...' and it's not the only place such a thing is written. I have no reason to think these are false or misleading statements regarding God.

However, 'doing' evil and 'being' evil are two different things.

AND

The 'evil' in the bible is not the same 'evil' we think of today.

The Hebrew word translated consistently throughout the OT as 'evil' is properly defined in various ways:

• adversity
  
• affliction
  
• bad
  
• calamity
  
• displeasure
  
• grief
  
• grievous
  
• harm
  
• heavy
  
• hurt
  
• ill-favoured
  
• evil mark
  
• mischievous
  
• mischief
  
• misery
  
• naughty
  
• noisome
  
• sad sore
  
• sorrow
  
• trouble
  
• vex
  
• wicked
  
• wickedly
  
• wickedness
  
• worse
  
• wretchedness
  
• wrong
  

These days the list of what 'evil' means is very different:

• sin
  
• wickedness
  
• depravity
  
• crime
  
• sinfulness
  
• corruption
  
• vice
  
• immorality
  
• iniquity
  
• knavery
  
• perversity
  
• badness
  
• villainy
  
• vileness
  
• baseness
  
• meanness
  
• infamy
  
• heinousness
  
• enormity
  
• criminality
  
• nefariousness
  
• malignity
  
• impiety
  
• malevolence
  
• viciousness
  
• wrong
  
• degeneracy
  
• debauchery
  
• decadence
  
• looseness
  
• lewdness
  
• licentiousness
  
• dissoluteness
  
• wantonness
  
• grossness
  
• turpitude
  
• wrongdoing
  
• darkness
  
• foulness
  
• degradation
  
• worm in the apple
  
• the devil within one
  
• obscenity
  
• profligacy
  
• devilry
  
• diabolism
  
• fiendishness
  
• pollution
  
• contamination
  
• catastrophe
  
• blow
  
• disaster
  
• plague
  
• curse
  
• outrage
  
• atrocity
  
• abomination
  
• foul play
  
• ill wind
  
• crying shame
  
• machinations of the Devil
  
• cruel
  
• guilty
  
• iniquitous
  
• lawless
  
• mean
  
• nefarious
  
• shameful
  
• ugly
  
• unchristian
  
• vicious
  
• villainous
  

None of this I posted in order to convince you to believe in something that you don't trust as believable or even worth believing--that's your business, not mine.

Neither am I trying to justify my God in your eyes--that is both foolish and futile, IMO, aside from being unnecesssary. What I understand of this issue is not easy to explain nor do I have any sort of arrogant conviction that it must be forced upon you.

My specific intention is only to show you that you are not doing thorough enough research to even create a worthy debate within your own thoughts, for your own purposes, much less making a valid argument in the direction of any potential opponent willing to go a round on this point with you.


Although I will say this: I have experienced various forms of both the modern and archaic 'evils' I mentioned--from both God and man.

I learned one thing for sure: I'd take God's 'evil' over man's 'evil' any day of the week.

Originally posted by promytheus
proverbs 15:28- "the godly think before speaking"


a jealous person is a person of envy, God envys our desires for the world instead for Him, any god period would be a jealous god, even the devil is jealous of humans that go for the righteous and not the bad.

envy.. jealousy.. im shure these things are way beneath god.....these are materialistic emotions that only exist in the material realm....

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Zaimless
I don't know why anyone would follow the Christian God.

Note: this is just a taster of what I have read.

Where did you get the idea that OT scriptures present the christian god?

The point of this is, whether Jesus came or not is indifferent to the "'personality" of the Christian God. This God, the Christian God is and EVIL God and even he says so.

'He says so' what? That He is the christian god? That is He is evil?

What it says in Isaiah 45:7 is not really open to dispute:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Jeremiah 49:37 says '...I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger...' and it's not the only place such a thing is written. I have no reason to think these are false or misleading statements regarding God.

However, 'doing' evil and 'being' evil are two different things.

AND

The 'evil' in the bible is not the same 'evil' we think of today.

The Hebrew word translated consistently throughout the OT as 'evil' is properly defined in various ways:

• adversity
  
• affliction
  
• bad
  
• calamity
  
• displeasure
  
• grief
  
• grievous
  
• harm
  
• heavy
  
• hurt
  
• ill-favoured
  
• evil mark
  
• mischievous
  
• mischief
  
• misery
  
• naughty
  
• noisome
  
• sad sore
  
• sorrow
  
• trouble
  
• vex
  
• wicked
  
• wickedly
  
• wickedness
  
• worse
  
• wretchedness
  
• wrong
  

These days the list of what 'evil' means is very different:

• sin
  
• wickedness
  
• depravity
  
• crime
  
• sinfulness
  
• corruption
  
• vice
  
• immorality
  
• iniquity
  
• knavery
  
• perversity
  
• badness
  
• villainy
  
• vileness
  
• baseness
  
• meanness
  
• infamy
  
• heinousness
  
• enormity
  
• criminality
  
• nefariousness
  
• malignity
  
• impiety
  
• malevolence
  
• viciousness
  
• wrong
  
• degeneracy
  
• debauchery
  
• decadence
  
• looseness
  
• lewdness
  
• licentiousness
  
• dissoluteness
  
• wantonness
  
• grossness
  
• turpitude
  
• wrongdoing
  
• darkness
  
• foulness
  
• degradation
  
• worm in the apple
  
• the devil within one
  
• obscenity
  
• profligacy
  
• devilry
  
• diabolism
  
• fiendishness
  
• pollution
  
• contamination
  
• catastrophe
  
• blow
  
• disaster
  
• plague
  
• curse
  
• outrage
  
• atrocity
  
• abomination
  
• foul play
  
• ill wind
  
• crying shame
  
• machinations of the Devil
  
• cruel
  
• guilty
  
• iniquitous
  
• lawless
  
• mean
  
• nefarious
  
• shameful
  
• ugly
  
• unchristian
  
• vicious
  
• villainous
  

None of this I posted in order to convince you to believe in something that you don't trust as believable or even worth believing--that's your business, not mine.

Neither am I trying to justify my God in your eyes--that is both foolish and futile, IMO, aside from being unnecesssary. What I understand of this issue is not easy to explain nor do I have any sort of arrogant conviction that it must be forced upon you.

My specific intention is only to show you that you are not doing thorough enough research to even create a worthy debate within your own thoughts, for your own purposes, much less making a valid argument in the direction of any potential opponent willing to go a round on this point with you.


Although I will say this: I have experienced various forms of both the modern and archaic 'evils' I mentioned--from both God and man.

I learned one thing for sure: I'd take God's 'evil' over man's 'evil' any day of the week.

Thank you for pointing out a whole bunch of more twisted God ideas....

Why, then, post them in their entirety, again?

why would anyone support a god that supports all the things published in the new testament letters?

Where did you get the idea that OT scriptures present the christian god?



Oh so the OT God is different than the NT God? Didn't Jesus himself call the OT God his father? I am pretty sure thats what he called him. Saying you don't believe in the written old testament and Gods ways in it doesn't change a thing. Go to you Pastor and ask him if the Old Testament God and the New Testement God are the same. It is and always will be.

Also more than once God in the old testament says he is a jealous God. For us not to worship other Gods, and that we should have no other Gods before him. Which transtates: There are other Gods.

Originally posted by Zaimless
Oh so the OT God is different than the NT God?

There does seem to be a certain difference between them...

Didn't Jesus himself call the OT God his father?

How would Jesus call the NT God his Father?

Also more than once God in the old testament says he is a jealous God. For us not to worship other Gods, and that we should have no other Gods before him. Which transtates: There are other Gods.

" And when he saw the creation which surrounds him, and the multitude of the angels around him which had come forth from him, he said to them, 'I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside me.' But by announcing this he indicated to the angels who attended him that there exists another God. For if there were no other one, of whom would he be jealous?" - The Apocryphon of John

There are many Christian sects that consider the OT and NT God to be different entities. Reading the Nag Hammadi Library, and other ancient Gnostic scriptures might help you understand why.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

The God of the Bible is the same, the NT and OT God is the same but God now has reason to not punish us with "fire"(hell) because of Jesus Christ God Himself that came to earth to live a sinless life which He did. God in the OT only was mentioned as jealous or in Anger because the only way for repentance was sacrafice. Soddom and Gommorah was a great example of sin without repentance, God knew this city was poisoning the world he created, even though He knew that destroying this city would not stop sin it would be a turning point for alot of people on the planet at the time. Lot knew God wanted him out and he left. The God is always the same as in the NT in John "He is the Alpha and Omega" if Jesus was Gods son then Jesus could not be the "Alpha and Omega". When Jesus gives reference to His Father it is only in realtionship not in rank. The Bible has many verses OT and NT that explain the relationship of Jesus God and the Holy Spirit. It is only human to scrutinize any works, and it happens alot that many things of the Bible are taken out of context.

Originally posted by Zaimless
Where did you get the idea that OT scriptures present the christian god?



Oh so the OT God is different than the NT God? Didn't Jesus himself call the OT God his father? I am pretty sure thats what he called him. Saying you don't believe in the written old testament and Gods ways in it doesn't change a thing. Go to you Pastor and ask him if the Old Testament God and the New Testement God are the same. It is and always will be.

Also more than once God in the old testament says he is a jealous God. For us not to worship other Gods, and that we should have no other Gods before him. Which transtates: There are other Gods.

you have two ways of looking at this...
1) the hebrews had just came out of egypt where they have a multigod system...alot of dieties with one major god pulling all the strings....maybe he was just trying to seperate them from what they had learned.....
or
2)god comes in a multitude of layers.....the vedas believe that you have one layer of god that is involved with everything, he knows and has a hand in everything that goes on he is atman (hes the creator of the head puppeter)....then you have the next level brahmin (the head puppeter) hes in charge of the other gods .....now these other gods there more of a material exsistence ..that is why they are easily reached and are often revered.......these gods however are often forgetful of the brahman and often feel as though they are independent of the brahman.......this would be why the god of the ot says he is a jealous god and that you cant whorship other gods...because he is a lower level god and the hebrew people are mistaking him for the brahman........this would explain also the fact that moses was aloud to see gods back.......you can not see brahman or atman .....through materialistic eyes...

Heck, I dare you to find a nice deity.

Mine is known for her cruelty, capriciousness, and overall bitchiness, but I love Her anyway... the Judeo-Christian God, many of the various Hindu deities, the Greco-Roman Gods, the deities of Sumeria, Egypt, and the rest of the world throughout history have always had their dark side.

You're not gonna find a God that's all sunshine and roses, unless you're willing to settle for a Buddha or maybe some kinda cult.

Part of the problem is people focus on the wrath of God in the OT without seeing the verses concerning His love.
Like
Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest
or
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Then they focus on the love of Jesus in the NT without taking into account His Justice and judgement side
Like
Revelation 19:11-15[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
or
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Originally posted by Zaimless
Oh so the OT God is different than the NT God?

No.

Didn't Jesus himself call the OT God his father?

No, He called the Father, His Father. And He said The Father was pure spirit, and also that no man had ever seen the Father.

Moses saw God in the OT. So that means it wasn't the Father.

Saying you don't believe in the written old testament and Gods ways in it doesn't change a thing.

Who said I didn't believe in the OT? I do.
You didn't read what I wrote, just dismissed it as something pre-judged. That's okay, though.

Go to you Pastor and ask him if the Old Testament God and the New Testement God are the same. It is and always will be.

I don't have a Pastor. Except Christ, that is. I did ask Him, and the answer was astounding.

My point about 'who said the OT God was the christian God?' has been misunderstood. I meant to clarify before now, but I didn't.

My point is that there is no 'christian' God, no 'jewish' God, no anykind of certain God. There is just God.

Just God.
Same one for all.

No one has a monopoly or a special seat at the banquet.

The one and only God is one as in relation with Jesus and the Holy Spirit, they all three co-exist as one in relationship, the meaning of Jesus being the Son of God only says that in essence being on earth God was man and not in His own being. This is all Relationships and in God there is millions of them. Humans on this planet can not ever be as one with God or as co-existing with Him, we are all seperated from the sin of adam and eve, and from all of our sins period, I believe that we can only day we can be truly called the children of God is when we are in heaven, clean and sin free. As this is my explanation for the relationship that Christ has with God, Jesus is His son born of a human but made in Gods hands.

What about the fact that the OT god had a consort Asheron as found on an Israelite tablet circa. 800 BCE and the fact that there seems to be more than one god mentioned in the OT. i.e
" God made man in OUR image"
"Behold man has become one of US"

The trinity answer just doesn't cut it. Plus the fact that Archaeology doesn't really confirm what the OT says.


G

Obviously not to many understand my point when I am writing. I think the Bible might have been written by Stephen King or someone. More torture and terror than some of the worst movies!!!

But 'real' life is infinitely worse--one Stephen King book multiplied by the population of the world.