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Jesus Never Existed. End of story.

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posted on May, 16 2006 @ 06:06 PM
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Gravityisatheory,

See, the thing is... there was indeed an historical Jesus. It was a somewhat common name. There were many Jesus's. One was probably a Jewish Rabbi, who may have seemingly fulfilled a few of the prophecies in the eyes of the early Jews, but when he died before fulfilling all of the prophecies, most jews rejected him as the messiah. There's no such thing as a second comming, it's alien to them. Most of the biblical jesus story is borrowed heavily from old pagan religous beliefs. There have been many other jesus type figures prior to our beloved biblical jesus. All with the same story and same teaching's. It's just continuos regurgitation of the same garbage. Most christians don't know this however. Heck, then again, most christians I've met don't even know thier own bible.




posted on May, 16 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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ProtOn

Yes, Absolutely I agree. He is a figure made up of the best parts of those doing jesusly things. You hit right on one of the facts, Jesus was a common rabbinical name. But doesn't that mean there was not "a" historical jesus but many historical jesus's. So the "biblical jesus" is then, myth.

He is rejected as the messiah by the Jews because when the church made up the biblical jesus they did not make him a descendent of David. This is a requirement in Judaism.


It was Christmas at church that clued me in. (yep, raised Roman Catholic) They seamed to skirt the whole Santa Claus stories inside the church but outside and at the school there was the story of Santa. I couldn't understand why Santa was not in the papyrus fables. I mean he does all his work on jesus' birthday you'd think there would be a few stories about the two. They say jesus lives right?


Next you'll tell me that the church chose to put his birthday right in the middle of the Persian celebration of the winter solstice and that the three kings were actually Persian astronomers looking at the alignment of the planets.
Zoroastrianism

I also have found very few people who fully understand their religion/bible.
That's just sad.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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He is rejected as the messiah by the Jews because when the church made up the biblical jesus they did not make him a descendent of David. This is a requirement in Judaism.


Um - you are wrong - let me correct you. Have you even read the Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1? If not, go read it now.

I guess the question now becomes wether or not you believe it is true. Who knows what the person who wrote the Gospel of Matthew was up to - I do know that there is an Original Hebrew version in existence however!



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 12:11 PM
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It all comes down to one thing and that my friends is "Faith". Religion is man made but Faith is in the heart.

My Faith tells me that there is a God and that His son lived, died for our sins and rose on the third day.

Am I a fool? I would say not because the fact of the matter is that if I’m wrong I regret nothing! What would it change in my life here? I would still look to the Bible as a very good guide to life. I would still love and respect people as the Lord would expect were He with me. However, if I am right, I have a reward for my Faith. For those that scoff, well, not so much. I think the more foolish choice would be to risk damnation. But then that is something fabricated just to scare me straight, right?

I am more open minded than you would think but I'll keep my Faith thank you. And for those that don't believe, I wouldn’t be surprised to see you praying on your lowest day.

Be Well and God Bless All!



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 12:52 PM
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A former Catholic with a question.
I understand and fully accept that many believe in God, Jesus and there religious paths. As for the orginal post I kinda think you started this thread to turn it into the violent faith bashing thread it is.
I see both sides and can understand both. The one thing I did notice is almost (I stress almost) all the pro-religion (God,Jesus) people here that are condeming people to eternal damnation and sentencing them to hell. Is that when I went to church and catholic school part of the teaching was not to do that. Do you think God has made you judge jury and executioner? Do you think God will be pleased by this blatent disrespect for his creations?
Do you really think you will be welcomed to your heaven after comdeming so many to hell. So who's using the Lords name in vain?

I'm not religious. I don't believe in God, I choose to believe in people. I care for people, look out for people and try to make the world a better place.
For all those who say they are in a better position than someone like me with your exploding avatars and pro-de-creation attitudes. I guess we'll all be try to find tickets from scalpers to get in the gates in the end.

If you think I'm wrong go to your Church and ask your preist if your are right by condeming others in the name of God?
Actually don't bother asking! our town Priest is good friends with my parents and I asked him. He was disgraced by these comments.
End rant
People are people and all should be considered equal.

Who cares if some anti-religion person tells you Jesus doesn't exsist. faith should be your own, not something someone can take away from you with a 2 line baseless statement.
Peace out and be with you ALL!!!



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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SDS

I can't speak for others but I said "risk". I didn't tell anyone they were going to hell. If that's the impression you got then I most humbly apologize. Only God can decide who goes where according to my belief.

It is a risk, is it not?

I will definitely try to be more careful with my wording next time. But after all, I am flawed; otherwise I wouldn't need Jesus to stand in the gap for me.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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I actually thought your post was pretty well writen. It just really bothers me and this is why I have problems with religion. Enjoy your religion but don't threaten or force people to it.
sorry again jbondo not directed at you!



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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SDS

I am also not a fan of religion. As I have said many times, religion is man made.

As for your apology, no need my friend! I am guilty of not biting my fingers sometimes.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by Gravityisatheory
Now here's the proof. Every single fact about jesus is hearsay, it's all made up. The most significant source of creation/jesus explanations and they don't have and can't reference a single empirical fact!!

NOT ONE!

No hair, no sandals, no writing, no painting, no cloth, no blood, no wood, no sign, no nails, no DNA, nothing!

They don't know when he was born
They don't know when he died
They don't know where he is buried.
There was nothing ever written by him
There are no first hand stories from anyone
Not even the tax collector ever wrote his name becaue he never exisited
All images of him look like daVinci, that's just weird




Not even the tax collector ever wrote his name becaue he never exisited

.... I don't even know where to start. First of all, many tax collectors wrote down his name in their charts. Zacchaeus, the chief tax collector of Jericho, had Jesus's name clearly written in his log. We have physical documents from the time that Zacchaeus was a living and breathing person. And last time I checked, Matthew (a disciple of Jesus) was a tax collector himself. Matthew wrote an entire book based aroound Jesus's life.


There are no first hand stories from anyone

Pontius Pilate, an famous Roman Official of the time, was the man who gave the final order to crucify Jesus. In Pontius Pilate's journal and log book, Jesus is mentioned over a dozen times! Julius Caesar himself writes about Jesus and his widespread influence (Caesar and Jesus were both living at the same time). Any other first hand accounts? How about all twelve of his disciples. They touched Jesus, heard Jesus, and knew Jesus personally. Almost every one of them wrote an epistle or book about him, and these historical figures could not have been made up.


They don't know where he is buried.

Jesus was crucified on a hill at Golgotha, near the west wall of Jerusalem. His body was most likely buried in a tomb nearby designated for people who were crucified for breaking Roman law. As to when he was crucified, it was on a Friday on 0 B.C./A.D. That's right people, B.C. stands for Before Christ and A.D. stands for After Death. Nowadays people call it Before Common Era as to not offend others.


They don't know when he was born

Contrary to popular belief, Jesus was not born on Christmas. That's actually the birthday of the sun god Amos. The bible tells us that Jesus was born while the sheperds were out tending to the flocks and that kings visited him on the day of his birth bearing gifts. It's highly unlikely that sheperds would be out with their sheep in the middle of winter, and that kings would travel hundreds of miles during the winter. I'm no expert, but Jesus was probably born in the springtime.

As to physical evidence, I challenge you to find a shred of physical evidence that clearly tells us of a specific person that lived over two thousand years ago. We do not even have the body of Julius Caesar, because the Roman custom was to burn corpses. The world back then is not like today. There were no birth certificates, death certificates, big houses and digital documents everywhere that have a track of what you buy and where you go. Compared to other people in the B.C. era, it is actually astonishing that we have so much evidence of Jesus's existence today.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by eudaimonia Even if he did exist, the church probably used him for their own twisted agenda to enslave the minds of many.


This seems to be the entire gist of your arguement... you still arn't sure yourself if he did exist.. but you have a beef about religion though.

Your logic suggests that because religion is not perfect that it is entirely flawed? Not good logic.

I do agree that there are many problems with religion and that the true views of Jesus were not provided to humanity but nobody has been able to prove that Christ did not exist and there is more evidence that he in fact did exist.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 07:06 PM
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I agree statusquo, there are still many problems within the church itself. But many people who claim they are christian do not always act like a chrsitian should. For example, I could call myself a vegetarian but I'm still eating bacon, fish, beef... Same thing with people who commit murders and such in the name of God. They call themselves christian, but what they do ultimately determines what they truly are.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 07:27 PM
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@Seraphim_Serpente

I've read it. Numerous times. The geneology doesn't link Jesus to David. We're talking about a time when lineage was not determined through the mother at all, period. Learn abit more about the time period in question. The customs used back then.

Regardless of that christian oversight or plain ability to ignore something important as that, there are many many many other reason's Jesus never fit the bill for being the messiah.

Alot of the so called ha see I told you so point of view's regurgitated by christian's are done so robotically. Many of them are flat out intentional mistranslations by apologists back in the day. Some of them didn't even exist and were written in at a later time. Etc etc etc. I don't expect you to know this though ...

@jbondo

Interesting. A man of faith who dislikes religion, seeing it as man-made, and yet holds belief in one of the main aspects of the christian religion.

Very very interesting indeed...

I love this comment.



However, if I am right, I have a reward for my Faith. For those that scoff, well, not so much. I think the more foolish choice would be to risk damnation.


Are you one of them gotta fit in just in case believer's? Ya know... just curious.



I would still look to the Bible as a very good guide to life.


While I agree, there are SOME decent moral values that common sense does dictate to uphold in the bible, there are also some thing's commanded by god in the bible that I just can't cope with and find rather distastefull. But yea, todays christians claim those thing's were man-made. It also appears that todays religous people have decided to literally pick and choose what and what not to believe. Well, technically this has been happening since the birth of monotheism. IMO, more so with the invention of christianity.



It is a risk, is it not?


Technically, no. Unless of course your a just in case believer. So far, everything you've said pretty much fits that bill. I say it isn't a risk and with extremley good reasons. All dieties are man made. All religions claim their deities are the one true dieties and all others are false. All followers of all the various beliefs systems claim "personal proof" that what they say is the truth and is real.

Now, how is this possible? How can you or I determine the validity of all these claims? How can one follower of one particular religion tell another that their proof isn't real and was the result of thier "evil diety"? List goes on and on and on.

Why pick the christian god over say ... Horus? His story is pretty much the same. Thing's and event's are pretty similar as well. So why Jesus? Horus was worshipped well before Jesus was born. Hey, why not worship Odin? The teutonic religion is pretty damn facinating religion.

@TheBlueSoldier

Regarding Pontius Pilate and Zacchaeus, can you provide your source's ... Everything I've found so far either point to the bible or says nothing of what your saying.



Any other first hand accounts? How about all twelve of his disciples. They touched Jesus, heard Jesus, and knew Jesus personally. Almost every one of them wrote an epistle or book about him, and these historical figures could not have been made up.


Interesting ... I guess that chinese emporer (forget his name) really did become a dragon. I don't dispute an historical Jesus, it was a common name after all. I fully exept a Rabbi named Jesus, who was killed by the roman's for breaking roman law's. However, his follower's did love him so, as did the people who imortalized a very succesfull chinese emporer once upon a time. Such immortalizations aren't uncommon in the ancient world. In fact, it occured quiet often!



As to when he was crucified, it was on a Friday on 0 B.C./A.D. That's right people, B.C. stands for Before Christ and A.D. stands for After Death. Nowadays people call it Before Common Era as to not offend others.


Really? Must've been a typo ...

In regards to death/ressurection, there's two stories.



Contrary to popular belief, Jesus was not born on Christmas. That's actually the birthday of the sun god Amos. The bible tells us that Jesus was born while the sheperds were out tending to the flocks and that kings visited him on the day of his birth bearing gifts. It's highly unlikely that sheperds would be out with their sheep in the middle of winter, and that kings would travel hundreds of miles during the winter. I'm no expert, but Jesus was probably born in the springtime.


Gotta agree there. If I remember correctly, they have used the story there to figure out the most probable birth date for jesus.



t is actually astonishing that we have so much evidence of Jesus's existence today.


Interesting ... There's astonishingly no evidence outside the bible that speaks of ... well, really anything. Nothing durring his lifetime. Of course, there's a few apologetic info out there.



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by TheBlueSoldier

.... I don't even know where to start. First of all, many tax collectors wrote down his name in their charts. Zacchaeus, the chief tax collector of Jericho, had Jesus's name clearly written in his log. We have physical documents from the time that Zacchaeus was a living and breathing person. And last time I checked, Matthew (a disciple of Jesus) was a tax collector himself. Matthew wrote an entire book based aroound Jesus's life.
Where is your source evidence for this claim?


Pontius Pilate, an famous Roman Official of the time, was the man who gave the final order to crucify Jesus. In Pontius Pilate's journal and log book, Jesus is mentioned over a dozen times! Julius Caesar himself writes about Jesus and his widespread influence (Caesar and Jesus were both living at the same time). Any other first hand accounts? How about all twelve of his disciples. They touched Jesus, heard Jesus, and knew Jesus personally. Almost every one of them wrote an epistle or book about him, and these historical figures could not have been made up.
Again where is the source evidence to back up these claims?



Jesus was crucified on a hill at Golgotha, near the west wall of Jerusalem. His body was most likely buried in a tomb nearby designated for people who were crucified for breaking Roman law. As to when he was crucified, it was on a Friday on 0 B.C./A.D. That's right people, B.C. stands for Before Christ and A.D. stands for After Death. Nowadays people call it Before Common Era as to not offend others.
What???? Where did you get this from ?? AD means 'Anno Domini' ("In the Year of the Lord")


The bible tells us that Jesus was born while the sheperds were out tending to the flocks and that kings...

As to physical evidence, I challenge you to find a shred of physical evidence that clearly tells us of a specific person that lived over two thousand years ago. We do not even have the body of Julius Caesar...
Compared to other people in the B.C. era, it is actually astonishing that we have so much evidence of Jesus's existence today.
Firstly it was 3 wise men (magi) and not kings who visited - according to the bible. Secondly there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar, after all he ruled one of the largest empires in the world and we have written evidence from his contempories and from the man himself. Thirdly I have never seen a shred of evidence that proves the existence of Jesus Christ and that is because there is NONE.


G



posted on May, 17 2006 @ 10:43 PM
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Prot0n

I realize that you are just trying to provoke me into some type of confrontation. So, I will just briefly explain my position respectfully and move on.

No, I am not a "just in case". You know exactly what I was doing there.

As for 'religion' and 'Faith', they have little to do with each other. You are looking at it from a worldly perspective and trying to cram everyone into one convenient package. Born Again Christians are not part of any organized religion. We don't need intercessors or big churches with stained glass and gold adornment. Our church is anywhere a group can gather. I happen to be Non Denominational, which means just what it says. My relationship with God is thru prayer, His book and the Holy Spirit which dwells in my heart.

Religion is something you do, Faith is something you feel.

I hope that this answers your questions.

Be Well and God Bless!



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 04:17 AM
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Yea, sorta was provoking you, but it mostly was a serious enquiry. You do come off as a just in case believer. But it's awsome how the born again's can take one little verse from the bible and form their belief system around that. Just amazing how many variations of the christian religion exist.



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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Seraphim_Serpente

Wow, You have no idea what you just said. Unfortunatly, you did not pay attention to your religious lessons. There were errors in your teachings and you never thought to question why?

Do understand what the New Testament is to Judaism? Nothing.

Why would you suggest that I use a collection of Christian fables to understand Judaism? You might as well suggest reading the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. www.venganza.org...

As I said in order to be the “messiah” you need to be a direct descendant of King David.
Now while I did misuse the word messiah, I should have said savior, that doesn’t change the bloodline requirement. The fabled jesus was not part of the bloodline so he could not be a savor to the Jews. He could not be the messiah. (There were many reasons, this is the simplest) But hey, don’t take my word for look it up in Wiki.
en.wikipedia.org...

Please answer the following questions;
Who was the supposed mother of jesus?
Who was the supposed father of jesus?
What genetic material did Joseph, the husband of Mary, contribute to jesus?

Is jesus a descendent of Joseph?

NO! The bloodline is traced through Joseph. Jesus is definitely NOT a descendent of David.
Joseph is his stepfather there is no blood relation between them. See Biology.

Anyway, The papyrus fables have been inaccurately edited over and over again. Forget your notion of “original text” this is a bad thing for you to mention. The Papyrus fables have been split into two primary sections the New Testament and the Old Testament. This is important because when speaking about Judaism, you can only refer to the Old Testament. Why you ask? Well, that’s simple, the Old Testament is plagiarism from the Torah and the New Testament is primarily a collection of Greek writings that were used to teach moral lessons. A group of people gathered these Greek stories and turned them into the Catholic Religion. They have nothing to do with Judaism once edited and placed in the bible.
The “Original” text for your Matthew story would have been Greek, not Hebrew.
en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder if you have ever heard this information or just chose to ignore it. But since you mentioned “Original” text, You made it clear that you preach about things you do not know.
The Torah is a scroll. Why is it a scroll you ask? Well, (aside from the fact that they didn’t commonly use books, they used scrolls) because the “Original” Torah is written without; words, sentences, paragraphs, chapters, headings, punctuation, none of that. Do you why? Because the entire scroll is just one word, a name actually. It is the name of god, Kabbalistic approach.
en.wikipedia.org...

The “Original” text of the Sefer Torah is unlegible because there is no one capable of understanding the original dialect of Hebrew. This is language skill is lost. So the actual text now is a translation of the original dialect. But hang on this gets much better. The “Original” text was first translated to ancient Greek. It was in this translation that there was an indication that the Jews had horns. Obviously this translation created a few problems and it was translated back to a usable Hebrew dialect. It is this version that is used today; actually it is the only version that exists in Hebrew. The accuracy of the copies are meticulously and religiously maintained.
www.torahtots.com...

So now, when you say Original Hebrew version just what are you talking about?



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 03:05 PM
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You have voted Gravityisatheory for the Way Above Top Secret award.


@Gravityisatheory,

That was just beautiful! Brought tears to my eyes. Someone give this guy a kookeh!



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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But since you mentioned “Original” text, You made it clear that you preach about things you do not know.


Gravityisatheory please do not Patronize me - you do not know how much time I spent studing all of this stuff - you have *NO IDEA* how much I know!!!

Obviously the Torah is in Hebrew. There is also a Greek Translation (Septuagint). Also the entire Bible (New & Old Testaments) has been translated into Latin, English & many other Languages. I know that the New Testament was originally written Greek - but that does not mean that Ancient INDIVIDUAL Gospels were not found written in Aramaic & Hebrew (as well as in Greek Obviously) - they in fact WERE!!!

I got the info that there was a version of the Gospel of Matthew written in Hebrew in Existence from the Book "The Passover Plot" by Hugh J. Schonfield (so take it up with him). Obviously a version of the Gospel of Matthew also exists in all the Languages listed above!



[edit on 18-5-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]



posted on May, 18 2006 @ 04:23 PM
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Well yea, I guess ... If you consider the middle age's "ancient".

Roughly 800 years can seem like a long time.



posted on Jun, 16 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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1 John 4:[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Once again we find that something written in 2006 was actually predicted by God 2000 years before it happened.



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