Iranian President denies Holocaust ever happened.

There is an underlying psychology behind the illness of Holocaust denial.

The issue isn't the number of Jews or whoever murdered in camps, 6 million or three or whatever, as if it were an actuarial question.

All the Holocaust "deniers" know that in their heart of hearts, that it happened, and Adolf Hitler did in fact do exactly what he said he would do.

In truth, most of the Holocaust "deniers" only deny that it was wrong. At the core, they believe that it was a good idea, and that its victims---most especially the Jews---deserved it.

Their hysterical discussion of irrelevant issues ("there weren't enough gas chambers to account for the numbers" Zyclon B or bullets? What's the difference) inevitably ends up tying modern-day Jews with undefined conspiratorial "mind control" or "degradation of culture" or "deceivers". Propaganda identical to that of the Fascist regimes which of course culminated in we all know what. And that's just the point. They agree with Joe Goebbels. Final Solution? A good idea.

That's why there is so much resistance to "holocaust denial"---rightfully so, because people see through the veneer of the superficial distractions.

Regarding the Iranian President's latest spew. He has things entirely factually backwards. Specifically, the genocide was not a myth. What is a myth, however, which is very widely believed in the middle east today, unfortunately, is that Israel and Israelis is an entirely European import. In truth, many who came to Israel were Jews whose ancestors had lived in the Middle East for generations and were similarly hounded out and oppressed. Arab regimes and groups were eager allies of the Nazis, and particularly of its attitudes towards Jews. The Likud's voting base in Israel are not the European descendants (Ashkenazi), but the Sephardic and Mizrachi.

Merely looking at the history of the Grand Mufti of Cairo, al-Husseini, is sufficient.

Prior to 1941, hundreds of thousands of Jews---Arab Jews---had lived in Baghdad. The Baath were pro-Nazi, and drove them out. Israel is NOT an escape from repression exclusively in Europe, and Fascist repression was hardly something which was entirely "Europe's problem" as Iran's president maliciously implies.

It is true that prior to the 20th century the oppression of Jews was worse among Christian dominated nations than in Muslim nations, but in the 20th and continued in the 21st century this has entirely been turned around. There is among large elements the combination of religious radicalism with the totalitarianism of pernicious 20th century ideologies.

Originally posted by crustas

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
All three images would appear to be of exactly the same place. Which makes them a poor illustration of a world-wide story.

Can someone give us a picture of City Hall in New York, does it look anything like this?

And what does Jews demonstrating against Zionism have to do with the Irani
an President denying the Holocaust occurred?

Oh man, you discovered, it's not NY USA, it's Mogadiscio in Somalia. You are so clever, you got me!

By the way, the reason i had to post those pics is in a earlier post, find it!

Look this is another picture from Somalia.

From Oxford English Dictionary:

red herring: a misleading clue or distraction, so named from using the scent of red herring in training hounds.

(hey, you learn something everyday, I didn't know the etymology!)

And crustas, the city you're thinking of is Mogadishu

You still haven't answered the question.

What does Jews demonstrating against Zionism have to do with the Iranian President's denial of the Holocaust?

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Why do some people here insist on believing the political position (and the powers etc that go with it) of the Iranian President are similar to the US President?
The guy is simply not 'the power' in Iran.

I keep seeing people make this statement, however, that statement does not square with this information:

article

Excerpt:
But the official IRAN Persian daily reported Monday that Ahmadinejad, as head of Iran's Supreme Cultural Revolutionary Council, ordered the enactment of an October ruling by the council to ban Western music.

Following eight years of reformist-led rule in Iran, Ahmadinejad won office in August on a platform of reverting to ultraconservative principles promoted by the revolution.

Since then, Ahmadinejad has jettisoned Iran's moderation in foreign policy and pursued a purge in the government, replacing pragmatic veterans with former military commanders and inexperienced religious hard-liners.


This guy hardly sounds like just a figurehead as some iranian defenders and apologists try to make him out to be.

[edit on 12/19/2005 by centurion1211]

I kinda fast forwarded to reply to the first poster.

I feel the Iranians might very well be correct.

Here is what I think might happened (no offense to the Jewish members, I love Jewish people in general).

-Jews were put in camps for cheap labour and for later relocation to another country away from the Aryan race.
-They were kept under very poor conditions, too much funds gone to the war so supplies were scarce, things escalated when the allies invaded Germany.
-Many had lice, fleas and perhaps other parasites, the gas-chambers used Zyklon-B which alledgedly was a insecticide.
-Many of the prisoners got infected with communable diseases such as typhus which Anne Frank died of and other diseases, bodies had to be burned to avoid infections to others.

IF the above is true and the 6 million jews really didn't get killed (actually it has been proven (IIRC) that 6 million is highly unlikely and that less than 1 million would be more realistic), still a large number, mainly due to neglect rather than genocide (which in my opinion is just as bad).

I believe Hitler thought that the Jewish people were too much of a thread since they were so finanically strong that he had to remove this inballance from his Reich.

I'm not saying Hitler was a great man, but he is certainly not worse than any other leaders of this world, I think he was over-demonized to enrage the people more so they would support the war.

Isn't the same thing happening right now with the whole War on Terrorism? Bush made his enemies to seem worse and of more of a threat to the American people so he would get support for the war, also note that America is HIGHLY HIGHLY influenced by what Israel wants, Since many major American business owners are Jewish and if the US Government doesn't support the offical country of the Jews, they could take the US down or at least cripple it.

This all is theory, but hey, that's why we are on a Conspiracy Theory messageboard aren't we?

Originally posted by centurion1211
the official IRAN Persian daily reported Monday that Ahmadinejad, as head of Iran's Supreme Cultural Revolutionary Council, ordered the enactment of an October ruling by the council to ban Western music.

- Banning western music.
Hardly quite an earth shattering move and (for those who know very much about Iran today) about as empty a piece of posturing as there is.

Following eight years of reformist-led rule in Iran, Ahmadinejad won office in August on a platform of reverting to ultraconservative principles promoted by the revolution.

- Or, another more reasonable way of putting it would be that as the Iranian people felt more threatened they turned towards the conservative element.
Which was probably what 'certain people' doing the threatening had hoped.

Since then, Ahmadinejad has jettisoned Iran's moderation in foreign policy and pursued a purge in the government, replacing pragmatic veterans with former military commanders and inexperienced religious hard-liners.

- ......and so what?
What does that "in government" line mean?
Putting a old-fashioned and maybe hard line ex-military guy in charge of collecting the taxes from a local market so as to be seen to act against corruption isn't exactly making my sky fall in and me want to see another ME war, sorry but it isn't.

This guy hardly sounds like just a figurehead as some iranian defenders and apologists try to make him out to be.

- "Defenders"? "Apologists"?

Jayzuss wept.

How about people angered at being blatantly fooled once with the almost identical kind of sham with Iraq who naturally question seeing almost the same kind of BS being served up and who are wanting a hell of a lot more than very obvious weak speculative innuendo and fact-free propaganda?

The fact remains the guy is a figurehead President and he does not have powers equal or equivalent to the kind of Presidency the US President has.

[edit on 22-12-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
The fact remains the guy is a figurehead President and he does not have powers equal or equivalent to the kind of Presidency the US President has.

True and not true.

The President of Iran wields executive power. As does the president of the US and PM of the UK, Australia, Canada et al.

However, while the President of the US can veto Congress, the Revolutionay Council (or whatever the hell the Mullahs call themselves), an unelected body, can veto the president of Iran. Which is pretty much what happened to Khatami for the last three years.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
I kinda fast forwarded to reply to the first poster.

I feel the Iranians might very well be correct.

Here is what I think might happened (no offense to the Jewish members, I love Jewish people in general).

-Jews were put in camps for cheap labour and for later relocation to another country away from the Aryan race.
-They were kept under very poor conditions, too much funds gone to the war so supplies were scarce, things escalated when the allies invaded Germany.
-Many had lice, fleas and perhaps other parasites, the gas-chambers used Zyklon-B which alledgedly was a insecticide.
-Many of the prisoners got infected with communable diseases such as typhus which Anne Frank died of and other diseases, bodies had to be burned to avoid infections to others.

IF the above is true and the 6 million jews really didn't get killed (actually it has been proven (IIRC) that 6 million is highly unlikely and that less than 1 million would be more realistic), still a large number, mainly due to neglect rather than genocide (which in my opinion is just as bad).

I believe Hitler thought that the Jewish people were too much of a thread since they were so finanically strong that he had to remove this inballance from his Reich.

I'm not saying Hitler was a great man, but he is certainly not worse than any other leaders of this world, I think he was over-demonized to enrage the people more so they would support the war.

Isn't the same thing happening right now with the whole War on Terrorism? Bush made his enemies to seem worse and of more of a threat to the American people so he would get support for the war, also note that America is HIGHLY HIGHLY influenced by what Israel wants, Since many major American business owners are Jewish and if the US Government doesn't support the offical country of the Jews, they could take the US down or at least cripple it.

This all is theory, but hey, that's why we are on a Conspiracy Theory messageboard aren't we?

that's great! i think this is the only interesting post on here, man i don't know why all these zionists come on here to protect their image, i mean this is a conspiracy site, i don't want to read a load of boring crap about pass over, i want a conspiracy!!

Yeah, this is a conspiracy site, but it is a conspiracy site that has the motto Deny Ignorance, not embrace it, 33degreesknight and GrOuNd_ZeRo.

Hello?!

If either of you had read this thread and the other like threads associated with holocaust denial, one would come to the conclusion that holocaust denial is not legitimate nor is it backed, rooted, or founded in anything remotely backed by recorded and documented Holocaust history, period. And yet, we still have members soaking up the holocaust denial revisionist garbage like soup to bread, Ironic, huh?

Question:
Since the end of WWII, have any of you heard the German government come out and deny or refute the numbers of Jews and non-Jews killed and murdered during WWII? This question alone should be evidence enough to make all the Holocaust deniers think twice, conspiracy site or not.






seekerof

Whether Report

Certainly there is no shortage of threads discussing the "Holocaust conspiracy" on ATS.

Why, just last week a thoughtful member started one up on that very topic -- which is different from this topic, by the way.

For those interested, I encourage contributing to the lively discussion here:

Holocaust Revisionist Theory

Doing so will permit a more coherent and comprehensive examination of the subject.

Meanwhile, is it just my imagination, or are we seeing a lot more interest in the Holocaust these days?

Must be a storm brewing.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Yeah, this is a conspiracy site, but it is a conspiracy site that has the motto Deny Ignorance, not embrace it, 33degreesknight and GrOuNd_ZeRo.

Hello?!

If either of you had read this thread and the other like threads associated with holocaust denial, one would come to the conclusion that holocaust denial is not legitimate nor is it backed, rooted, or founded in anything remotely backed by recorded and documented Holocaust history, period. And yet, we still have members soaking up the holocaust denial revisionist garbage like soup to bread, Ironic, huh?

Question:
Since the end of WWII, have any of you heard the German government come out and deny or refute the numbers of Jews and non-Jews killed and murdered during WWII? This question alone should be evidence enough to make all the Holocaust deniers think twice, conspiracy site or not.






seekerof

yea i heard of one german who denied it, he's going to be locked away for 50 years

Originally posted by 33degreesknight

yea i heard of one german who denied it, he's going to be locked away for 50 years

Could you please provide a source?

Conspiracy is not a contest of who is able to tell the biggest lie - at least I think.

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by 33degreesknight

yea i heard of one german who denied it, he's going to be locked away for 50 years

Could you please provide a source?

Conspiracy is not a contest of who is able to tell the biggest lie - at least I think.

man, what planet are you on????
Ernst Zundel is in a german jail after publicly denying the Holocaust in the US, then shipped to Canada, then shipped to his homeland of Germany
its world news, where are you from? Zion land? maybe in Zionland they don't tell you all the news

[edit on 23-12-2005 by 33degreesknight]

Ah yes, very thoughtful posts coming from some new members I see. Are you all just tired of typing the same mindless garbage about drinking beers and hating "mud people" and jews on your neo-nazi boards so you feel it necessary to invade our board and type mindless garbage until you inevitably go too far and get banned?

"You just posted ignorant, hateful nonsense on ATS, what are you gonna do now?"

"I'm going to Zionland!"

Originally posted by 33degreesknight
yea i heard of one german who denied it, he's going to be locked away for 50 years

And rightly so.
Your inspiration is to be just like him, eh?



seekerof

Originally posted by 33degreesknight
its world news, where are you from? Zion land? maybe in Zionland they don't tell you all the news

The only thing I find remotely is your ignorance and refusal to provide sources. Enjoy your stay at ATS hopefully its not a long one.

yea okey i have researched some sites and this look to be a bit bogas and in fact its obvious that 6 million or so jews were killed in fact, i'll post some of it up becuase *Something to the fact that no one else will.*


*Please review Terms and Conditions of Use and also the thread on General ATS discussion etiquette *

[edit on 23-12-2005 by dbates]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
However, while the President of the US can veto Congress, the Revolutionay Council (or whatever the hell the Mullahs call themselves), an unelected body, can veto the president of Iran.

It’s the Guardian Council. There are twelve members in this council, 6 clerics, who are appointed by Khamenei and 6 lawyers who are appointed by Iran's head of judicial branch (who is appointed by Khamenei). Khamenei, is in turn elected by the Council of Experts, who are elected by the people. But the people who run for the Council of Experts have to be approved by the guardian council. So it all goes round in circles.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Which is pretty much what happened to Khatami for the last three years.

8 years. Khatami was president from 1997 to 2005.

Halaucaust was just an exuse to move Israel in Middle East,and that was the main objective in WW2.Israel is basically sorrounded by muslim countries who want to get rid of it and it will happened soon.Israel cant fight this war forever with palestinians,Hizbullah at the border,groups of millitants all around it and if Israel attacks Iran,that might just be the end of Israel.Israel will get pretty exhausted and even if US did help,the question is how much further can the US troops stretch.I think there sholud be a little space in Europe where Israel could just squeeze in,its also not got a very big population.Its easy to say nuke this nuke that but dont forget it spreads.

Originally posted by 33degreesknight

yea i heard of one german who denied it, he's going to be locked away for 50 years

and

Originally posted by 33degreesknight

Ernst Zundel is in a german jail after publicly denying the Holocaust in the US, then shipped to Canada, then shipped to his homeland of Germany

Ernst Zundel, 66, who was deported to his native Germany from Canada in March 2005, faces charges of incitement, libel and disparaging the dead before the state court in the southwestern city of Mannheim. He faces a maximum sentence of five years in jail if convicted.

Again - could you please provide a source for your claims?

Originally posted by fear umer
Halaucaust was just an exuse to move Israel in Middle East,and that was the main objective in WW2.

No, even that is historically untrue. There is no doubt that the fact of the Holocaust - the murder of approximately 6 million Jewish men, women, and children - accelerated the establishment of the State of Israel.

But the Jewish State of Israel would have been established at any rate.