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Originally posted by Yarium
You will not know if God exists or not until you die - and I have a feeling that you won't find out then either. Chances are that the after-life is much like this life - full of questions. I would not have it any other way.
Originally by GradyPhilpott
There are perhaps innumerable reasons to believe in God, but the best one is to enjoy a personal mutual relationship.
Are there peole out there who believe that with one more post, they can convert a couple more people into believing or not? If I am so gung ho and hard core with my belief, why do people try to change my mind? Are there people here who have had their minds or belief change simply because of a well worded post?
If God exists....the scientific world we be transformed. No longer are concrete algorithms, molecular structures and laws of physics. Why should there be? Something way beyond our realm can control entire universes. Faith is a basis of knowledge. Churches would flourish. The financial impact would be amazing. My goodness...can you imagine?
Originally posted by think2much
Not trying to change your mind, so don't accuse me of that-LOL-however I want to point out that you of course are assuming here that the existance of God would mean he would then control everything and we'd have no free will.
With this perception of God, you are limiting greatly what God can do, supposing what He can't ,and propossing what you think He should...
The God I believe in gives us free will and accountability. He did not "cause this mess" but does allow it of part of a plan that was put into action with certain universal truths governing the laws by which it will continue until the purpose of it's establishment has come to fruition.
The God I believe in is not just a God of Earth , but a God of the universe, and multiverses. In your search for truth, try to enlarge your perspective of understanding what a God can be...and not limiting him by what you think he would or should do on Earth
....the scientific world we be transformed. No longer are concrete algorithms, molecular structures and laws of physics. Why should there be? Something way beyond our realm can control entire universes.
Originally by think2much
but because no confimration can come from a higher source of the truth for them in their belief system that there is no source of higher truth...then they must seek other ways to find "confirmation"...so they seek it intellectually since they lack spirituality
I didn't mean to imply that God would take control of all of us, but for the devout....wouldn't they hang onto every word and gesture? Wouldn't he control them, per se?
quote: Originally by think2much
but because no confimration can come from a higher source of the truth for them in their belief system that there is no source of higher truth...then they must seek other ways to find "confirmation"...so they seek it intellectually since they lack spirituality
I don't agree with that. i know I don't lack spirituality. My spirit lies with the love of my children, and the love of my career. My spirit to me is what makes me alive...what enables me to go on another day...to truly live. I don't think I need a God to do that.
Otherwise, you had some good points. I am trying to develop my own mind. Who know what will stem from that?
*snip*... and have defined themselves, at least in part, by the answer they've chosen. If their self-image is to be stable, they must convince themselves of the validity of the answer they've assumed.
They never have even a moment's doubt about the complete lack of empirical evidence to support either view, and thus have no need to either attempt to convert others to their view or to discredit the views held by those others. No other view can even begin to pose any threat to the absolute certainty of agnosticism.
why think too much about a afterlife, or death for that matter. We are alive now and thats all that realy counts. im not sure what for but it does. belive what you want to about death but dont wast time preparing for it.
Originally posted by think2much
agnosticism *is* within itself still a defining belief...
Thus they are defined by, and exercise a faith in, thier belief nonetheless.
So for them as well, for agnostics to be stable, they must conitinue to convince themselves of the validity of their answer as well...by continually caliming they see absolutely no proof either way.... no matter what new or interesting or valid points may be presented directly to them, or they may accidentally come accross in life or in reasearching the subject to continue to validate their belief...I see many agnostics constinually trying to convince themselves "of the validity of the answer they've assumed."
Well, with their resources only containing a lack of empiracal evidence on either side, they (agnostics) don't really have a foot to stand on to convert anyone, or more importanly discredit the views of others.
...and re: Absolute certainty ... I've never personally met an agnostic who will claim absolute certainty of their belief...
I say faith based, because they (agnostics) can't have exhausted all means to prove or disprove the existance of God...
...but usually they do find themselves exploring religious topics, discussions anyway and continuing to search...
...even if only to strengthen their own belief there isn't enough proof either way
The simple truth is that we are all, ultimately, agnostic-- that is, without knowledge. However, only some of us admit it.
Originally posted by think2much
I choose to take a leap of faith to believe one particular way anyway...
...you may say there is no such thing as "faith based in fact...if there is fact, in cancels the need for faith"
...you seem intelligent and respectful and I like that and don't want to seem like I'm trying to push my religious bias on you, nor criticize your beliefs
Originally posted by think2much
They search because they want to know the truth. They're agnostic because the truth has not yet been found and they feel no need to assume an answer either way. They simply accept the fact that it has not yet been found, and are ready if and when it is.
As for my children being born sinners, and that they shall not be absolved unless I baptise them...phooey. Children are the most innocent of creatures.
I believe that humans have a moral creed they have to live by, but why do I have to accept that God is the person who wrote it for me? I do not kill, I do not steal, etc. This is why humans are more evolved than animals. We have accepted the fact that others in our species deserve respect.
Originally posted by Rouschkateer
As much as my scientific mind wants to really believe that there is someone who can make this world better with one magical "poof", logically, I come up with a reason why this can't be so.
Originally posted by Rouschkateer
Faith is the major debate. The argument is based off of the fact the God cannot be proven, but since so many reasons point to the fact that he can exist, they lobby faith as the reason why they still believe. Do they really want to take their chances and not believe, and perhaps condemn themselves to Hell? What if there is a Heaven?
Originally posted by RouschkateerIf God exists....the scientific world we be transformed. No longer are concrete algorithms, molecular structures and laws of physics. Why should there be? Something way beyond our realm can control entire universes. Faith is a basis of knowledge. Churches would flourish.
Originally posted by RouschkateerIf God doesn't exist...those who held faith this entire time would be considered more knowledgable.
Originally posted by RouschkateerI simply can't believe that an Ultimate Creator started this mess, and then left us to hash it out on our own.
Originally posted by Rouschkateer
Can you change my mind? No. Can you debate valid and irrefutable point for either side for me? No.
So why do we? Are there peole out there who believe that with one more post, they can convert a couple more people into believing or not? If I am so gung ho and hard core with my belief, why do people try to change my mind? Are there people here who have had their minds or belief change simply because of a well worded post?