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What wars have the US really lost?

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posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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I hear people talk about the Vietnam war and how the US lost it. but everything that I've read about the subject says that the US and its allies won every battle, the polotician(Democrates mostly) made us pull out. and it sounds like they are trying to do it again with iraq. is the Democratic party the cut and run party. I'm not sure with Korea if anyone has any info on why we pulled out of there, please fill free to let me know.




posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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At this time, the Democrats want to "redeploy" the troops from Iraq to somewhere else. Its not a withdraw or a retreat but a redeployment.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:16 AM
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I believe that every war entered into from the Korean war till present day - basically a country cannot say they have won any wars - no one wins guys



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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In order to win a war, you need both the physical and political will to do what it takes to win the war, and in both asian wars mentioned, the US did not have one, the other or both to continue either conflicts.

What 'won' or at least stalemated these wars was the ability of the other side to continue fighting regardless of the apalling cost in human life. In Korea, the fact that the Chinese could push back Amercian tanks with sheer bloody minded manpower (literally throwing infantry at armor) is an example of this that makes anyone shudder when you think about the cost involved.

Vietnam was the same on a slightly smaller scale. A good way of looking at it is a line of Brando's in Apocolypse Now, when he talks about the VC cutting off the limbs of children vaccinated by the American troops:
[I can't quite remember the exact figure or wording so I approximate]

"If I had just 500 of those kind of men, I could win this war for them in Washington"

that's it in a nutshell...



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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I believe we could have won all of these wars if politicians would stay out of military matters. If the generals are allowed to run the wars we wouldnt have these problems. But politics has to get in the way of everything.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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Every war since WWII basically was no more than a defensive action. What I mean is America went in to help defend another nation and drive back the invading army. North Korea wouldn't be the pain it is today if Ike would have let General Macarthur invade like he wanted to. North Vietnam would have been pummeled to ashes if not for Political interference. And there never would have been a second Gulf War if we had finished with Saddam the first time but our troops again were hogtied and not allowed to finish the job. Now some Americans and American politicians are clamoring for the US to pull out of Iraq before the mission is complete. History should have taught us a valuable lesson but unfortuntely it hasn't. American has the most powerful Military in the world but it is constantly being kept on a tight leash. I do not condone war but if you are going to send America's young men and women into war then please do not tie their hands behind their backs and let them die for nothing. If we go in full force there is not an army in the world that can stop us. So to answer your question, No the US Military has never lost a war. US Politicans? Thats a different story



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:26 AM
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Did you leave Vietnam a better place than it was when you arrived? Didn't it split into two countries, one being Communist? That's a win?

Same thing with Korea. Was it better when you left? Didn't North Korea just become a dictatorship after the war?

The US doesn't fight defensive wars. They fight wars of aggression to further their own political and economic needs, then they tell the AMERICAN PEOPLE that it's a defensive war, and y'all eat it up.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:26 AM
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What ever happeneed to the nucleur option? It's not like we have never used them before. If we are going to go to war every weapon that is in our arsenel should be considered.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Same thing with Korea. Was it better when you left? Didn't North Korea just become a dictatorship after the war?


You just can't let the facts get in the way of your attacks, can you?

North Korea was a dictatorship led by Kim Il-Sung before the Korean War and he unprovokedly attacked South Korea in an attempt to take it over. We defended South Korea and drove the North back -- we would have defeated them but they ended up getting some help and it ended up a draw with the old border restored. :shk:



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

Did you leave Vietnam a better place than it was when you arrived? Didn't it split into two countries, one being Communist? That's a win?


Talk about history, Im not certain if you read the IndoChina war.


Same thing with Korea. Was it better when you left? Didn't North Korea just become a dictatorship after the war?


When we left? We have yet to leave South Korea.


The US doesn't fight defensive wars. They fight wars of aggression to further their own political and economic needs, then they tell the AMERICAN PEOPLE that it's a defensive war, and y'all eat it up.


Soooo the Korean war was America's fault along with Vietnam? Can anybody explain to Jakomo what started the Korean War and the Vietnam war or the Gulf War, WW1, WW2, etc.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:40 AM
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djohnston:

North Korea was a dictatorship led by Kim Il-Sung before the Korean War and he unprovokedly attacked South Korea in an attempt to take it over. We defended South Korea and drove the North back -- we would have defeated them but they ended up getting some help and it ended up a draw with the old border restored.


Um, so do you actually classify that as a win? Worth the deaths of US soldiers? Considering what North Korea is doing now?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

...then they tell the AMERICAN PEOPLE that it's a defensive war, and y'all eat it up.




Please don't say such things. Many Americans DO eat it up, but many do NOT. I am disgusted by war. Man should have by now gotten to a point where war is no more.

Much of the world used to think of the US as heaven. It is thanks to war that the US is now so hated. Since one sows what they reap, I fear for my childrens future. War will most likely come here one day, then it really will be a defensive one.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

Um, so do you actually classify that as a win? Worth the deaths of US soldiers? Considering what North Korea is doing now?


From what we can see of South Korea as a prosperous country with advanced society in culture and technology. I sure say its a win. Compare to North Korea.
They pretty much lost.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:51 AM
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deltaboy:

Soooo the Korean war was America's fault along with Vietnam? Can anybody explain to Jakomo what started the Korean War and the Vietnam war or the Gulf War, WW1, WW2, etc.


NOWHERE did I say the US started those wars. READ WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. I am addressing the TOPIC of What Wars have the US really lost.

You know, like you ought to be.


From what we can see of South Korea as a prosperous country with advanced society in culture and technology.


And this is all due to US involvement in the Korean War? What if both South and North had been annexed as a dictatorship? You're 100% certain they'd be worse off now as a whole?



godservant:

Please don't say such things. Many Americans DO eat it up, but many do NOT.


I'm sorry, I was generalizing. I didn't mean any personal insult to anyone.



[edit on 13-12-2005 by Jakomo]



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Um, so do you actually classify that as a win? Worth the deaths of US soldiers? Considering what North Korea is doing now?


Yes, it's certainly better than having North Korea control the entire Korean peninsula.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
Did you leave Vietnam a better place than it was when you arrived? Didn't it split into two countries, one being Communist? That's a win?



No, Actually both became communist. What I said is the US was not allowed to invade North Vietnam, if we had then it would have been a different story. The US was asked to help defend South Vietnam from the North. US pulled out because of political pressure not because we were defeated on the battlefield. Aslo it wasn't the US against North Vietnam. Russian and Chinese troops were helping the North.



Originally posted by Jakomo
Same thing with Korea. Was it better when you left? Didn't North Korea just become a dictatorship after the war?


Same problem here as Vietnam, US was not allowed to invade the North.
US wasn't trying to save North Korea, we were only trying to defend South Korea from the North. North Korea became what it became because of China's influence not because of anything the US did. Yes, South Korea is much better off thanks to the US.



Originally posted by Jakomo
The US doesn't fight defensive wars. They fight wars of aggression to further their own political and economic needs, then they tell the AMERICAN PEOPLE that it's a defensive war, and y'all eat it up.




Careful, your bias is showing.

I'll repeat what I said before, the US was asked by South Korea, South Vietnam and Kuwait for help. The US went in only after agression was started by another country, not by America. You ar partially right though, we no longer fight only defensive wars. After 9/11 the US has decided to
deliver the blows instead of take them and yes American People do eat that up!



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Jakomo
And this is all due to US involvement in the Korean War? What if both South and North had been annexed as a dictatorship? You're 100% certain they'd be worse off now as a whole?

Under the rule of Kim?
God forbid as we have seen what he has done to his own people in NK right now.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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After 9/11 the US has decided to
deliver the blows instead of take them and yes American People do eat that up!


Wow, how dramatic and testosteroney.

I had forgotten, of course, that 9-11 was not just a terrorist attack, it was a declaration of WAR by all the nasty and evil dark-skinned non-Christian, non-American people out there in the world who don't like you. Who hate freedom and eat babies and spend all day plotting to destroy your country.

My mistake.

Do you watch Fox News perchance?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

I had forgotten, of course, that 9-11 was not just a terrorist attack, it was a declaration of WAR by all the nasty and evil dark-skinned non-Christian, non-American people out there in the world who don't like you. Who hate freedom and eat babies and spend all day plotting to destroy your country.



Where have you been? You never heard of Osama calling for war against Americans and to kill American men, women and children, both civliian and military? Where have you been?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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gosh someone doenst` know history at all


`us wern`t allowed to invade the north`


erm , the us forces entered CHINA after blowing throught the whole of north korea - they fought the chinese head to head.

the chinese pushed the us forces back and captured soul - it was recaptured on the 14th march 1950


`vietnam` - `cannot bomb the north`

again not true - there are numerous stories of clashes between both chinese AND russian pilots in the vietnam war - there was virtually an unrestrictive air war (at a time)


and what of france? you know anything about the french armies defeat in vietnam?

in vietnam us forces were pushed out of the country - the exacuation took place using helicopters - as the use of naval ships was deamed to dfangerous (towards the end) as they could be shelled by artillery!



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