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NEWS: Swiss Lawmaker Cites Evidence Supporting Secret CIA Prisons Claim

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posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Swiss lawmaker, Dick Marty, claims his committee has found evidence that supports the claim of secret CIA prisons in Europe. He says the evidence shows that prisoners were transported from one country to the next "with no judicial involvement". Mr. Marty believes the United States is no longer secretly holding prisoners in Europe as he believes they were moved to North Africa in November. The evidence has been handed over to the Council of Europe, the European continent's human rights watchdog.
 



n ews.yahoo.com
PARIS - A Swiss investigator probing claims of secret
CIA prisons in Europe said his committee has evidence that supports allegations that prisoners were transferred between countries and temporarily held "without any judicial involvement."

"Legal proceedings in progress in certain countries seemed to indicate that individuals had been abducted and transferred to other countries without respect for any legal standards," lawmaker Dick Marty said in a written report summarizing his investigations so far.

Marty told a news conference he believed the United States was no longer holding prisoners clandestinely in Europe and believes they were moved to North Africa in early November, when reports about secret U.S. prisons first emerged in The Washington Post. He did not provide any other details.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It's not looking good, and not just for the Bush administration and the CIA. Ms. Rice's cryptic comments regarding the accusation of clandestine CIA prisons in Europe alluded to the fact that they were not secret to the leaders of said countries. This suggests the leaders of these European countries allowed the holding of citizens from other nations secretly in their borders by the CIA.

If there is any credence to the evidence found by Mr.Marty I fully expect a major international incident over this. Those European leaders who allowed this to occur could be impeached from office for breaking their own countries laws. They could also face prosecution from the host countries from those abducted "with no judicial involvement".

Wow, simply wow.

[edit on 13/12/05 by subz]




posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:05 AM
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Errr...

Maybe it is just me but Swiss means; "A native or inhabitant of Switzerland".

So you might want to fix your headline...



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Errr...

Maybe it is just me but Swiss means; "A native or inhabitant of Switzerland".

So you might want to fix your headline...

Intro paragraph you mean, see we all make mistakes



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by subz

Originally posted by Odium
Errr...

Maybe it is just me but Swiss means; "A native or inhabitant of Switzerland".

So you might want to fix your headline...

Intro paragraph you mean, see we all make mistakes


Somethin' like that.
Thought you'd rather have it fixed though.


I like the news, didn't pick it up yet myself but it makes for an interesting read. If the U.S. has been doing such things, I hope the C.I.A. gets removed and the U.S. bases go with it. This abuse of power should not go unpunished and it is abotu time all Nation's are treated as equal.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Odium

I like the news, didn't pick it up yet myself but it makes for an interesting read. If the U.S. has been doing such things, I hope the C.I.A. gets removed and the U.S. bases go with it. This abuse of power should not go unpunished and it is abotu time all Nation's are treated as equal.


I guess those nations be included as well to go along with the CIA and bases wagon.
Might as well include almost all the nations who seem to in the first place approve such policy of rendition.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Odium

I like the news, didn't pick it up yet myself but it makes for an interesting read. If the U.S. has been doing such things, I hope the C.I.A. gets removed and the U.S. bases go with it. This abuse of power should not go unpunished and it is abotu time all Nation's are treated as equal.


I guess those nations be included as well to go along with the CIA and bases wagon.
Might as well include almost all the nations who seem to in the first place approve such policy of rendition.


Find me where they have approved it, not for them to fly through but to transport suspected terrorists knowing they would be tortured please.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:33 AM
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Here:




EU concealed deal with US to allow 'rendition' flights

By Justin Stares in Brussels and Philip Sherwell in Washington
(Filed: 11/12/2005)

The European Union secretly allowed the United States to use transit facilities on European soil to transport "criminals" in 2003, according to a previously unpublished document. The revelation contradicts repeated EU denials that it knew of "rendition" flights by the CIA. [...]

Asked in Parliament last week about reports of 400 suspect flights passing through British airports, Tony Blair said: "In respect of airports, I don't know what you are referring to."

The minutes of the Athens meeting on January 22, 2003, were written by the then Greek presidency of the EU
after the talks with a US delegation headed by a justice department official. EU officials confirmed that a full account was circulated to all member governments, and would have been sent to the Home Office.

The document, entitled New Transatlantic Agenda, EU-US meeting on Justice and Home Affairs, details the subjects discussed by the 31 people present. The agenda included the fight against terrorism, drug trafficking and extradition agreements.

According to the full version, "Both sides agreed on areas where co-operation could be improved [inter alia] the exchange of data between border management services, increased use of European transit facilities to support the return of criminal/ inadmissible aliens, co-ordination with regard to false documents training and improving the co-operation in removals." [...]




posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:40 AM
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Thank you.

Where does it say the knew that the people would be tortured?

There is a massive difference between allowing the C.I.A. to fly suspects from one Nation to another, they do that if they catch a criminal the United Kingdom is looking for. The problem at the moment is if these people have been being kidnapped without the Governments knowing and if they are being tortured.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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And where does it say, that EU authorized the CIA to use X-Soviet Bases for their "Detention Camps" where they use "Interrogation Techniqes" upon SUSPECTED Terrorists?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Odium

There is a massive difference between allowing the C.I.A. to fly suspects from one Nation to another, they do that if they catch a criminal the United Kingdom is looking for.


Yes, but that is 'normal daily business' between US and EU , right?


It seems to be a very different situation here - Again from the source I provided:




The EU agreed to give America access to facilities - presumably airports - in confidential talks in Athens during which the war on terror was discussed, the original minutes show. But all references to the agreement were deleted from the record before it was published.


The document, entitled New Transatlantic Agenda, EU-US meeting on Justice and Home Affairs, details the subjects discussed by the 31 people present. The agenda included the fight against terrorism, drug trafficking and extradition agreements.

According to the full version, "Both sides agreed on areas where co-operation could be improved [inter alia] the exchange of data between border management services, increased use of European transit facilities to support the return of criminal/ inadmissible aliens, co-ordination with regard to false documents training and improving the co-operation in removals."

But this section, and others referring to US policy, were deleted - as a "courtesy" to Washington, according to a spokesman for the EU Council of Ministers.

Tony Bunyan, of the Statewatch civil liberties group which obtained the original document, said: "What kind of facilities are these and how many people work there? That phrase suggests the US is being allowed to use airports in Europe to transport criminals from third countries."






[edit on 13-12-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by Odium

Find me where they have approved it, not for them to fly through but to transport suspected terrorists knowing they would be tortured please.



service.spiegel.de...


German intelligence officials estimate that more than 100 CIA officials are currently working in Germany, although only the Americans know the exact number. They work at the US Embassy in Berlin, but also in Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg and, together with German intelligence agencies, at the German counterterrorism center in Berlin. Some of their work is as mundane as writing reports and discussing analyses, but they also recruit sources and observe suspects. And whenever the US agents, operating in Germany under the title "Joint Intelligence Services," become too conspicuous, German officials don't seem to have any qualms about looking the other way. "When these kinds of problematic cases land on our desks," says an interior minister of one of Germany's states, "we keep one eye tightly shut, so that we don't end up having to do something that would be very embarrassing."

Because of this unwritten policy, the normal diplomatic procedure of deporting anyone who is discovered to be an agent -- a fate that befell the Russian consul in Hamburg late last year -- only rarely applies to the Americans. On the contrary, US agents have benefited tremendously from the Germans' special relationship with their erstwhile liberators from abroad.


www.dw-world.de...


Alleged involvement of German officials in the CIA abduction of a German citizen have been causing headaches in Berlin, but the government has promised to lay its cards on the table this week.

The German grand coalition government went on the offensive over the weekend to answer nagging questions as to whether German officials under the former Schröder government assisted the abduction and detention of a Lebanese-born German national Khaled el Masri.

In 2003, the CIA abducted German national Khaled el Masri in Macedonia and flew him to Afghanistan where he was detained for five months as a terror suspect and allegedly mistreated. US officials acknowledged to the German government in 2004 that the man had been mistaken for somebody else and had been wrongly detained.



Foreign Minister Steinmeier, who already held a ministerial post in the Schröder government, has vehemently denied German involvement in the affair. He is expected to inform the German parliament and the public about the case in great detail this coming Wednesday.


news.yahoo.com.../nm/20051210/ts_nm/germany_cia_dc_3

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany's new foreign minister on Saturday described as outrageous a suggestion that German authorities may have played a role in the abduction of a German citizen by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency ( CIA).

In an interview published the newspaper Bild, Frank Walter Steinmeier said he learned only afterwards of the abduction of Khaled el-Masri, who was flown to Afghanistan for interrogation as a suspected terrorist.

He was responding to remarks attributed to an unnamed security source by a German newspaper on Friday that German authorities pointed the CIA in Masri's direction.

"The anonymous allegation that German authorities were involved in the abduction of el-Masri is outrageous and irresponsible," Steinmeier said.

Steinmeier was chief of staff to former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder at the time of the abduction in December 2003 and as such had close contacts with German security services.


en.wikipedia.org...

Mohammad Al-Zery and Ahmed Agiza, two Egyptians, who had been seeking asylum in Sweden, were arrested by Swedish police in December 2001. They were taken to an airport and put on an executive jet with an American registration with a crew of masked men. Within hours, they were flown to Egypt, where they were imprisoned, beaten, and tortured. A Swedish diplomat visited them several weeks later. Agiza was charged with being an Islamic militant and he was sentenced to 25 years. Al-Zery wasn't charged, and after two years in jail he was sent to his village in Egypt.
In 2003, Khaled el-Masri, a Kuwait-born citizen with German nationality, was detained by Macedonian agents in Republic of Macedonia. While on vacation in the republic, local police, apparently acting on a tip, took him off a bus, held him for three weeks, then took him to the Skopje airport where he was turned over to the CIA. El-Masri says he was injected with drugs, and after his flight, he woke up in an American-run prison in Afghanistan containing prisoners from Pakistan, Tanzania, Yemen and Saudi Arabia. El-Masri claimed he was held five months and interrogated by Americans through an interpreter. He wasn't tortured but he was beaten and kept in solitary confinement. Then, after his five months of questioning, he was simply released. "They told me that they had confused names and that they had cleared it up, but I can't imagine that," El-Masri told ABC News. "You can clear up switching names in a few minutes." He was flown out of Afghanistan and dumped on a road in Albania, from where he made his way back home in Germany. Using a method called isotope analysis, scientists at the Bavarian archive for geology in Munich subsequently analyzed several strands of his hair and verified his story. During a visit to Washington, German Interior Minister Otto Schily was told that American agents admitted to kidnapping el-Masri, and indicated that the matter had somehow gotten out of hand. Masri was held for five months largely because the head of the CIA's Counterterrorist Center's al Qaeda unit "believed he was someone else," one former CIA official said. "She didn't really know. She just had a hunch."[37][38]


www.indymedia.ie...

Swedish silence about CIA aircraft
Stockholm, Tuesday /ritzau/TT
Sweden’s security police, Säpo, does not wish to comment as to whether chartered CIA aeroplanes have landed on Swedish soil with prisoners from the base at Guantánamo in Cuba.
The Swedish security police, Säpo, knows nothing about allegations that the CIA has visited Sweden, even though aeroplanes that have been chartered by the American intelligence agency for purposes including transport of prisoners have landed at Swedish airports.
“We have no indication that the CIA has visited Sweden in these cases,” says press secretary Jakob Larsson, Säpo.
To the question of whether Säpo would have been informed if the CIA was visiting, Larsson replied:
“I can’t comment on that, since we don’t comment on relations to foreign powers.”
The Swedish news agency TT wrote on Monday that two aircraft that have been hired by the CIA in other contexts, have landed in Sweden. One of them visited Sturup Airport [civilian airport used by Ryanair] near Malmö [in southern Sweden, across the water from Copenhagen] in September, and the other visited both Arlanda and Örebro in June 2002. In Örebro, the aeroplane remained on the ground for two days. This aeroplane has landed at least seven times at the US base in Guantánamo, where the United States is detaining prisoners suspected of terrorism.
The CIA's aeroplanes are used, among other things, to transport prisoners to secret prisons around the world or to countries where they are presumed to be tortured.
It is not known why the aeroplanes have landed in Sweden, but another CIA-chartered aeroplane with American agents on board was used in 2001 in connection with the brutal deportation of two Egyptians suspected of terrorism. According to their own information, they were later tortured in Egypt.
The Swedish prime minister, Göran Persson, would like to look into the matter before he comments on whether the CIA aeroplanes’ landings in Sweden should be investigated.
“I haven’t managed to inform myself yet. I would like to do that first, before I give an account of possible measures,” he said to TT at a press conference in Norrköping.


www.globalsecurity.org...

The question is, have European governments been aware of U.S. actions? In her speech yesterday, Rice suggested that they were. If that's true, human rights activists say these countries would be breaching EU norms.

"Flying detainees to countries where they may face torture or other ill-treatment is a direct and outright breach of international law -- with or without so-called 'diplomatic assurances,"' Amnesty International spokesman James Dyson said. "Condoleezza Rice said that the U.S. government seeks such assurances on treatment from receiving nations. We believe they are completely meaningless, [because] countries known for systematic torture regularly deny such practices."

The German government, for one, is under a lot of pressure to admit what it knows. Rice has been visiting Germany today, and German federal parliamentarians are demanding that the government disclose any details of U.S. handling of prisoners in Germany.

At a press conference today in Berlin, Rice and German Chancellor Angela Merkel steered away from the general topic of rendition. But they did refer directly to the case of one individual, Lebanese-born German citizen Khaled Masri, who disappeared in Macedonia two years ago. He reappeared in Germany five months later, claiming to have been abducted by U.S. agents and sent to a detention center in Afghanistan.

Merkel told journalists that the United States has admitted to a "mistake" in the Masri affair. "We actually talked about that one particular case, and the U.S. administration has admitted that this man was taken erroneously," she said. "And as such, the U.S. administration is not denying that a mistake has taken place. I am also pleased to note that the U.S. secretary of state has said that if such a mistake occurs, it must be rectified."

Now, Masri is suing the CIA.

EU member Ireland, a neutral country, is also the subject of speculation. Amnesty International says it has documented some 50 landings of CIA aircraft at Shannon Airport in the past four years.

Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern last week implied the government knew nothing of this. He urged anyone with evidence of such flights to come forward, and said he would investigate immediately. Rice had previously assured Ahern that Shannon was not being used for prisoner transit.

However, in response, Amnesty International was able to publish the types, registration numbers, and arrival details of what it said were CIA aircraft. Amnesty said the list of departures did not match the list of arrivals, indicating the planes were flying to destinations that they did not want to disclose.

It said the flight log of one of these planes showed visits to Afghanistan, Morocco, Dubai, Jordan, Italy, Japan, Switzerland, Azerbaijan, and the Czech Republic.



www.washingtonpost.com...

Rice began her trip to Europe here in Germany, where on Tuesday she will seek to build relations with the new German government of Chancellor Angela Merkel before flying to Romania and Ukraine. Later she is to attend meetings at the headquarters of the NATO alliance in Belgium. Throughout her trip, aides expect her to be dogged by questions about the CIA prisons.

Werner Hoyer, a member of the German Parliament's foreign policy committee, said Rice's statement would put European governments on the defensive to explain what they knew about joint counterterrorism operations in Europe.

"She's trying to throw the ball back into the European field, especially the German field," Hoyer, a member of the opposition Free Democratic Party, said in an interview. "She's saying that fighting terrorism is not just an American problem but a German problem. This practice of renditions is perhaps in keeping with U.S. law, but there are indications that perhaps it is not compatible with German law."



www.iht.com...


The U.S. State Department said Monday that it would cooperate with such requests, adding that it had acted within international law.

The issue is steeped with emotion, given the high level of anger in Europe at allegations that U.S. interrogators have tortured prisoners in Iraq, at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba and elsewhere.

And so the stakes are high for many European governments, which are facing impassioned questions from opposition politicians and human rights groups about just how much they knew about American actions. The issue becomes even more complicated, given the desire of many European governments for good relations with America and their fear of political fallout if the United States actually has violated other nations' sovereignty.

"We need full disclosure by our government," Menzies Campbell, foreign affairs spokesman for the Liberal Democrats in Britain, told BBC radio Wednesday.

"If, in fact, people are being moved from a jurisdiction where torture is illegal to a jurisdiction where torture is permissible, that seems to me to be wholly contrary to international law," he said. "If we are allowing facilities for aircraft carrying out these actions, we are at the very least facilitating and we may even be complicit in it."


There is also a map that shows how much Europe is involved with this rendition. Also this cooperation is related to the Alliance Base which involves intelligence agencies from America to Europe and this would not have worked without the back of various govts.

www.washingtonpost.com...


PARIS -- When Christian Ganczarski, a German convert to Islam, boarded an Air France flight from Riyadh on June 3, 2003, he knew only that the Saudi government had put him under house arrest for an expired pilgrim visa and had given his family one-way tickets back to Germany, with a change of planes in Paris.

He had no idea that he was being secretly escorted by an undercover officer sitting behind him, or that a senior CIA officer was waiting at the end of the jetway as French authorities gently separated him from his family and swept Ganczarski into French custody, where he remains today on suspicion of associating with terrorists.

Ganczarski is among the most important European al Qaeda figures alive, according to U.S. and French law enforcement and intelligence officials. The operation that ensnared him was put together at a top secret center in Paris, code-named Alliance Base, that was set up by the CIA and French intelligence services in 2002, according to U.S. and European intelligence sources. Its existence has not been previously disclosed.

Funded largely by the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, Alliance Base analyzes the transnational movement of terrorist suspects and develops operations to catch or spy on them.

Alliance Base demonstrates how most counterterrorism operations actually take place: through secretive alliances between the CIA and other countries' intelligence services. This is not the work of large army formations, or even small special forces teams, but of handfuls of U.S. intelligence case officers working with handfuls of foreign operatives, often in tentative arrangements.

Such joint intelligence work has been responsible for identifying, tracking and capturing or killing the vast majority of committed jihadists who have been targeted outside Iraq and Afghanistan since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to terrorism experts.

The CIA declined to comment on Alliance Base, as did a spokesman for the French Embassy in Washington.

Most French officials and other intelligence veterans would talk about the partnership only if their names were withheld because the specifics are classified and the politics are sensitive. John E. McLaughlin, the former acting CIA director who retired recently after a 32-year career, described the relationship between the CIA and its French counterparts as "one of the best in the world. What they are willing to contribute is extraordinarily valuable."

The rarely discussed Langley-Paris connection also belies the public portrayal of acrimony between the two countries that erupted over the invasion of Iraq. Within the Bush administration, the discord was amplified by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, who has claimed the lead role in the administration's "global war on terrorism" and has sought to give the military more of a part in it.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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Riwka, you answered your own question with that quote.


increased use of European transit facilities to support the return of criminal/ inadmissible aliens

That means the agreement was to allow European transit facilities to allow transfer of the "criminals". It makes no mention of an aggreement to hold the criminals in these transit facilities. Big difference.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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subz, the question has been transport - not 'hold'.

I just provided a source where one could be in doubt as to whether it is true that the EU really knew nothing


wow. great research and interesting articles, deltaboy!



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:20 AM
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Deltaboy, there is nothing in those quotes that shows the European nations were complicit in these abductions and torture. You made lots of quotes about European nations dissavowing any knowledge of this going on before the fact.


Because of this unwritten policy, the normal diplomatic procedure of deporting anyone who is discovered to be an agent -- a fate that befell the Russian consul in Hamburg late last year -- only rarely applies to the Americans.

That is regarding the deportation of US spies from Germany, not about allowing US spies to abduct German citizens.


Foreign Minister Steinmeier, who already held a ministerial post in the Schröder government, has vehemently denied German involvement in the affair.

Thats evidence of a European government that "approved it"?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Riwka
subz, the question has been transport - not 'hold'.

It is? Who asked that question? I saw both Odium and Souljah draw the distinction between allowing transport of "criminals" and holding them for torture.

Was Odium asking questions about whether or not the EU allowed criminals to be transfered through their airports to secondary destinations?


Originally posted by Odium
Find me where they have approved it, not for them to fly through but to transport suspected terrorists knowing they would be tortured please.

No. He specifically ruled out the significance of allowing the CIA to "fly through" European airports.

How about his second post?


Originally posted by Odium
There is a massive difference between allowing the C.I.A. to fly suspects from one Nation to another, they do that if they catch a criminal the United Kingdom is looking for. The problem at the moment is if these people have been being kidnapped without the Governments knowing and if they are being tortured.

Nope.

How about Souljah?


Originally posted by Souljah
And where does it say, that EU authorized the CIA to use X-Soviet Bases for their "Detention Camps" where they use "Interrogation Techniqes" upon SUSPECTED Terrorists?

No again.


Originally posted by Riwka
I just provided a source where one could be in doubt as to whether it is true that the EU really knew nothing

You haven't really shown anything that wasn't already entered into the thread by all involved as public knowledge already. We all know the EU allows the United States to use their airports to extradite or "fly through" with other criminals. The sticking point that myself, Odium and Souljah raised is that the CIA hasn't been "flying through" but landing, imprisoning and torturing "criminals" on EU soil. OK?

[edit on 13/12/05 by subz]



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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I really love how quick people come in to make excuses for the Europeans. I also like how, without any evidence, they make claims such as:



Find me where they have approved it, not for them to fly through but to transport suspected terrorists knowing they would be tortured please.

...



Where does it say the knew that the people would be tortured?

There is a massive difference between allowing the C.I.A. to fly suspects from one Nation to another, they do that if they catch a criminal the United Kingdom is looking for. The problem at the moment is if these people have been being kidnapped without the Governments knowing and if they are being tortured.

...

And where does it say, that EU authorized the CIA to use X-Soviet Bases for their "Detention Camps" where they use "Interrogation Techniqes" upon SUSPECTED Terrorists?


I never realized any sort of torture had ever been proven. Hell, the closest you've come is something like water boarding, which has been used less than a handfull of times itself.

Now, just ask yourselves this. Would you be giving Bush the same benefit of the doubt you are giving these EU members? You think it's logical that America is flying people through these countries without permission from the highest levels of government? Get real.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by subz

[

Foreign Minister Steinmeier, who already held a ministerial post in the Schröder government, has vehemently denied German involvement in the affair.

Thats evidence of a European government that "approved it"?


Then I guess you believe in the denial of the Eastern European nations who say there is no CIA prisons as well, right?
You really believe the CIA can do all this in Europe for years without anyone noticing? Especially the European govts and intelligence agencies?



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Then I guess you believe in the denial of the Eastern European nations who say there is no CIA prisons as well, right?
You really believe the CIA can do all this in Europe for years without anyone noticing? Especially the European govts and intelligence agencies?

Accusing governments of covering it up is vastly different to posting supposed proof that they openly approved CIA detention centers in Europe. It has nothing to do with what you or I believe, you posted that as proof positive of complicity from European governments, which is untrue.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Proof is somewhat relative in this matter.
Everything a nation does is never divulged or entirely revealed or exposed. Anyone with half any type common sense knows that the CIA cannot operate in a country, such as building, funding, manning, and transporting to those "secret" prisons, without the host allied nation(s) knowing or giving permission.

Furthermore, the use of common sense would indicate as self-evident that the same European governments will not say that they openly approved of such. I mean geez, it would condemn them as hypocritical and non-debatably complicit, something that we just cannot have or believe...
Afterall, this is a make the US look further bad, not lets make the Europeans look bad argument and stance.

You can bet your last bottom dollar that those European nations that had those "secret" prisons were well aware of them; that those same European governments knew and allowed those transport "ghost" flights in and out. As such, in all technical terms, those involved European governments are complicit, just as complicit as one who watches an individual be murdered and does nothing to stop it, etc. Thats why they so easily accepted everything Dr. Rice said.






seekerof

[edit on 13-12-2005 by Seekerof]




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