NEWS: Clemency Denied for Stanley "Tookie" Williams

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by 5Lostboy5
is Woujld you rat on your Brothers ?? I would never ..
no matter what ... It is my brother.

Also - the Crips aren't his 'brothers'. They are fellow criminals
but they are not his 'brothers'.

ALSO , YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CRIPS in Bigger cities .. Obviously you live in a small town ... They are FAMILY .. When it is cold and they are on the streets without anywhere else to go they can go to thier Gang Brothers for food and Warmth and Basically SURVIVAL !@@@

Originally posted by Frosty
So that is your excuse not to have Tookie executed? Dalhmer received life for murdering 4 people so Tookie who murdered 4 and found a street gang which has murdered probably hundreds of civilians and law enforcement and maimed thousands more should be granted clemency?

no im pretty sure dalhmer killed more then 4 people...and ate them. doesnt matter what kind of justice was served by fellow inmates in jail. that was the justice of the people inside, not the government.

What kind of sick -edit obscenity- are you? He murdered 4 people, at least! That was his mistake, and his fault.

i was being sarcastic because some one said something like "well he didnt get death because it was in a non execution state"

WTF are you talking about? Tookie didn't invent a shotgun, HE USED A SHOTGUN AGAINST 4 PEOPLE! Blah. Einstein DID NOT work on the atomic bomb. His only contribution was a formula for determining energy. ANd he did not use the bomb. There is a difference.

prove it, show me the evidence that he used the shotgun and actually shot the people. and that it wasnt the accomplise(sp?) that fired the gun then blamed tookie because he didnt want tookies charges.

He was APART OF IT THAT WAS BAD ENOUGH ... they knew that each other had a Shotgun .. it is Kinda hard to hide one .. Not sure if you ever tried .. But "Yeah .... The other guy definately knew he had one and he wasn't planning on hitting the guy or girl's with it ....

And it wasn't just a Killing .. it was a hit ... an EXECUTION .. to say ... Hey .. Chinese may have thought they were bad and had bad gangs around ... but nothing is like the Crips ... ... OR something liek that .. READ THE STORY before you guys go posting loads of CRAP !

[edit on 13-12-2005 by 5Lostboy5]

theres a difference between accomplish to murder and manslaughter or murder. whether or not he pulled the trigger would change the case alot.

THEN THAT IS WHERE ARE SYSTEM IS F'ed up at ... ANYONE ACOMPLISING OR MURDERING should be treated the same .. way .. What he think .. they wre going ot go there with that gun .. and buy some Cakes ??? NO ABOSOLUTELY NOT ... SCREW WHOEVER THOUGHTS THOSE WERE ..

Originally posted by grimreaper797
prove it, show me the evidence that he used the shotgun and actually shot the people. and that it wasnt the accomplise(sp?) that fired the gun then blamed tookie because he didnt want tookies charges.

3 seperate courts didnt see any evidence suggesting innocence, so obviously theres proof....you prove innocence...go on...

he didnt commit the murder, and if he never fired he never attempted murder. he would be in for robbery definately but murder i dont think so. who says it was his intent to ever even fire the gun? (this is if he never actually shot it, which from what i see cant be proved well) you cant, you cant charge a person for murder just because he was there. you can probably get accomplise to murder since he was with the person who did it and was aware that its a possibility he could kill somebody. but he wouldnt get death just becuase some one else killed people.

innocent till proven GUILTY. its your job to prove to me that he was guilty, and some flaky witness who might have actually commited the murders doesnt count.

Alright, enough is enough. Have respect for the News Forum. Decorum please.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
accomplise to murder since he was with the person who did it and was aware that its a possibility he could kill somebody. but he wouldnt get death just becuase some one else killed people.

actually you can get executed for aiding a murder....

yes by aiding the murder you mean helping in killing the person, simply being with the person when they commit the murder is not this instance. helping a person throw another person of a cliff when the person your with shot him and the person is still alive. thats different

How are they I we not having respect for the News Forum ?? Intrepid you walking a fine line ... Better get to one side or the other ...

I didn't hear about any riots in L.A.... I didn't think there would be. The implication that the vast majority of black people are against Tookies death sentence is off in my opinion.

Tookie, at least, has repented. He is much better off as a man sentenced to death who has realized the error of his ways having took actions to correct them, than a man sentenced to death who has chosen to remain defiant, ignorant, unrepented, and shameless of the tradition of violence he helped cultivate and inflict on his people.

I don't believe in the death penalty - but would I, as a person of African descent have rallied on Tookies behalf? .... No, I would not. There are people on death row who are not guilty of committing any crimes... if I'm going to get riled up - it would be over someone who is truly innocent.

I respect what the man has done during his incarceration - he took steps to undo the damage he caused. That is the greater victory, and I think Tookie should have been content in knowing that at least he would not die in darkness, unremembered, unrepented, and unforgiven. To be liberated from his death sentence would have been great, of course, but it wasnt going to happen. At least ... in his lifetime, he has achieved more than most will achieve in twice the time. I think he should go out with dignity, and accept the final consequence for his actions, however misguided - and take comfort in knowing that at least, in his last years, he was worthy of the respect and support of so many people.

Originally posted by 5Lostboy5

ALSO , YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CRIPS in Bigger cities .. Obviously you live in a small town ... They are FAMILY .. When it is cold and they are on the streets without anywhere else to go they can go to thier Gang Brothers for food and Warmth and Basically SURVIVAL !@@@

I'm sorry... but this is hilarious... you described the crips gang like they're a bunch of Quakers or something... or like they're the boys and girls club...

It's been years since I really had to paid any attention to gangs... they were really popular when I was in HS - practically everyone claimed something... w/o taking anything from you, let me just say that... in my experience... there was no loyalty... they would turn on each other in a heart beat... not to mention switch sets- that's where half the slang terms for someone who is a traitor comes from.... i.e, buster, nark, jake, transformer... so you have to excuse me for laughing at this romanticized idea of the crips

Perhaps they had that quakerlike quality when the gang first started out in California in the 80's... but by the early 90's... it seems to me it was more like random groups of delinquents, fighting over street corners... even with members of the same gang... nowhere near as organized as when they first started... I don't even know what their purpose is these days... probably just a need to belong and fit in.

Mod edit: fixing quote

[edit on 13-12-2005 by parrhesia]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
he didnt commit the murder, and if he never fired he never attempted murder. he would be in for robbery definately but murder i dont think so. who says it was his intent to ever even fire the gun? (this is if he never actually shot it, which from what i see cant be proved well) you cant, you cant charge a person for murder just because he was there. you can probably get accomplise to murder since he was with the person who did it and was aware that its a possibility he could kill somebody. but he wouldnt get death just becuase some one else killed people.

I don't know what the law was 26 years ago, but I know now (at least in some states) that if a murder is committed during the commission of a robbery that you can be charged with murder and executed regardless of whether you were the one who pulled the trigger or not. It's no different than the getaway driver in a bank robbery being charged with robbery, even though he never entered the bank or held a gun. Whether or not Mr. Williams was a murderer in the eyes of the law if he didn't actually pull the trigger doesn't really matter to me. He is as guilty as the person who actually pulled the trigger. It's not like him and his fellow gang member, armed with shotguns, went into that hotel with the intention of borrowing a cup of sugar. They went in there to rob and murder those people. And for that he has shown absolutely no remorse and has failed to admit wrongdoing.

And let's not forget the countless murders committed by the gang which he started. If an organied crime boss is responsible for the murders carried out by his mafia organization then this guy is certainly responsible for the crimes committed by the gang he c-created and led.

And as for the guy (I really wanted to use a bad term but I've restrained myself) that is actually defending the bond between gang members as if it's something holy and respected... give me a break! These fellow gang bangers are not "brothers" as you say. They are criminal co-conspirators. A true brother wouldn't introduce drugs and murder and violence to his brothers. Just because they may provide food or a roof over someones head doesn't make them good people, and it doesn't make their bond unbreakable. In fact, if you try to leave one of these groups and move on you are often murdered by your "brothers." Hell, your "brothers" usually beat the crap out of you as part of your initiation into this group.

These guys are a bunch of thugs and are the lowest form of scum on this planet. And anyone who defends the bond between gang members as something sacred is no better than the gang members themselves.

I am very glad to hear there was no rioting, thx for the updates guys.

Now that is respect for a man He asked that there not be and there wasn't.

RIP he shall.




[edit on 13-12-2005 by ImJaded]

im not saying hes guilty of crimes. and yea maybe he should have been executed, but its not about him anymore. its about how the prosecution cuts deals with the killers and how some never get what they deserve. if you sentence some one to death, then at least not pick and choose which you will up hold. once he is said to be guilty and put on death row, there should be no appeals unless you can prove the circumstances which you deserve one (proof the judge was racist or the jury was paid off, threatened, ect.) other then that, after a year the person should be put to death. so why so many still on death row? why was this man put to death while so many still sit in their cells? did he deserve special attention above all the other killers?

Originally posted by ImJaded
I am very glad to hear there was no rioting, thx for the updates guys.

Now that is respect for a man

He asked that there not be and there wasn't.

RIP he shall.

What's next? Sainthood? Deification?

Tookie loves me, this I know!



[edit on 2005/12/13 by GradyPhilpott]

some of you would like to see those die. for me personally i dont want anyone to die. if some one were to kill me or a family member of mine, close friend, whatever, i wouldnt wish death upon them. sure i wouldnt want them on the street ever again, but not death. i dont believe in an afterlife so vengence is worthless to me. i wouldnt be able to have any satisfaction in watching another person killed over a killing. if he gets killed resisting arrest well nothing you can do, but as for killing him, i couldnt wish that upon them. i have no religion type connection or anything, i dont believe christ was our savior, he just had a good idea of the way to live in peace. killing is never the answer, illegally or legally.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
some of you would like to see those die. for me personally i dont want anyone to die. if some one were to kill me or a family member of mine, close friend, whatever, i wouldnt wish death upon them. sure i wouldnt want them on the street ever again, but not death.

For someone with those sentiments, you sure have a weird user name.

[edit on 2005/12/13 by GradyPhilpott]