NEWS: Clemency Denied for Stanley "Tookie" Williams

Originally posted by ImJaded
But ya'll carry on as U are, and we will do the same

I didn't know that Aussies said "ya'll."

So, Australia doesn't have the death penalty or guns, but they do run riot assaulting their brethren of color with beer bottles?

This murderer has had 25 years to prove his innocence. He's had countless appeals, and was even turned down by the extremely liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. For 25 years his innocent victims have been forgotten, while we've replaced their memories with his "new" image. Meanwhile, this monster has failed to renounce his gang membership or help to bring any other gang members to justice. He's refused to acknowledge his wrongdoings. How can we grant clemency to someone who doesn't even seek forgiveness for their actions to begin with?

The problem is that we've allowed a certain left-leaning segment of our population to completely undermine what the death penalty was originally intended to do. If someone knows that they have a better chance of dying of old age on death row then actually being executed, then how can we expect the death penalty to be a deterrant? I think that those who are sentenced to death certainly deserve a thorough appeals process, but 25 years, as in Mr. Williams' case, is just rediculous. 25 years ago four innocent people were slaughtered and we've allowed this man to go on and write childrens books. We've allowed the media to turn this guy into an angel through interviews, home videos, etc. Hell, I could show you private videos of Hitler and make him look like a Saint too.

And let's even, for one moment, suspend the idea that the death penalty can be a deterrant for future murderers. The friends and families of these victims, and most importantly the deceased victims themselves, deserve to have justice handed out. This man took four lives. At what point do we agree that someone doesn't deserve to live? And this has nothing to do with innocent people on death row and innocent people that have been executed in the past. That's a shame and that issue should be addressed. But its completely irrelevant in this case. This man is so beyond guilty of these crimes that its rediculous, and I think its rediculous to use the argument of innocents being executed when attempting to justify clemency for this monster. Just as rediculous as it is to say there are others, such as Charles Manson, who may deserve to be executed more than Williams does. That's neither here nor there. Focusing on this case alone there is no doubt in my mind that this man should be put to death and should have been a very long time ago.

And if you're still on the fence about the upcoming execution of Mr. Williams, I invite you to take a look at the pictures of his victims below. Send this link to your pals who have been brainwashed by the Hollywood elite and believe this man should be spared. I am warning you however... these pictures are EXTREMELY GRAPHIC. They are photos of the victims in the aftermath of the crimes committed by Mr. Williams some 26 years ago. Do not click on this link if you have a weak stomach.

****EXTREMELY GRAPHIC**** WILLIAMS VICTIMS (GUNSHOT WOUNDS)

Take a look at the last image on that site especially. Tell me that that innocent young girl deserved to be shot in the face with a shotgun and that Mr. Williams deserves clemency. And do that with a straight face. Yes, these pictures may be extreme. But I think that the media has turned the victims of crimes into storybook characters. People need to see what really happened to these people and the brutality of the crime. This was not a movie or a make-believe story. This really happened. These innocent people had to live through the horror of watching their loved ones brutally murdered and then being painfully murdered themselves. I'm glad that Mr. Williams has done some good in the last 25-26 years. But anything short of bringing these people back to life doesn't deserve him clemency.

Originally posted by ImJaded
this is news to me, but I just found this Affidavit on this website

Scroll downto where it says "New Evidence", it is in a pdf format
read that affidavit and then tell me he had a fair trial.

Regardess of if he did it or not, taking his life is not solving anything and the death penalty certainly does not prevent future crimes.

There is an interesting summary of the case against Williams on about.com. (I found it via a Google search of "Tookie Williams evidence"). The summary is pretty doggone convincing. Summaries that I have seen online in the last day or so that purport to prove his innocence are neither convincing nor compelling.

Another strike against him in my mind is an interview I read this week that he had with a reporter from MSNBC where when he was asked to simply state the names of the victims. His lawyer interrupted the interview and claimed that the question / request was "racist". How ridiculous.
In my mind, that just goes to show how cynical and empty his protestations that he is the victim of an unfair and racist conviction really are.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by ImJaded
But ya'll carry on as U are, and we will do the same

I didn't know that Aussies said "ya'll."

This one does
I know it's unusual slang for one but I use all sorts, from all different cultures. Doesn't really have anything to do with this topic though.
I comend U on your previous post GradyPhilott, the jokes are indeed uncalled for.

So, Australia doesn't have the death penalty or guns, but they do run riot assaulting their brethren of color with beer bottles?

Apparently they do, yes and I abhor the rioting and their baheviour as much as this.



[edit on 12-12-2005 by ImJaded]

Originally posted by ImJaded

you dont get it do you, its not about making an example, revenge or any such things, its about punishment, taking a life should be punished equal to the crime, we should forgive but punishment shouldnt be voided just because they might change or might regret things, the dead wont get to enjoy music, get to write books, see the sky, etc, etc so what kind of justice is it that he can?

you keep denying justice to your people so YOU can feel morally superior and feel good about yourself, no those effected by murder dont matter to you as long as your morality feels justified, no their loss is meaningless as long as you feel morally superior, forget justice if you feel so good about that.

[edit on 13-12-2005 by namehere]

Originally posted by ChemicalLaser

There is an interesting summary of the case against Williams on about.com. (I found it via a Google search of "Tookie Williams evidence"). The summary is pretty doggone convincing. Summaries that I have seen online in the last day or so that purport to prove his innocence are neither convincing nor compelling.

I just came across that and hadn't seen it discussed hence my posting it. I have just seen more evidence FOR him than AGAINST.
Thanks for your info

like what?

[edit on 13-12-2005 by namehere]

He has 2 minutes left.....

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
could be the very reason this man was put on the Earth to begin with.

And what of the four people he killed what were they put on this earth for? I guess we will never know since he gunned them down.

Maybe that was the purpose of their lives also.
Didn't that Jesus guy die so others could live?

What does killing a man who comitted a crime in 1978 do for anyone?
It's also CHEAPER to keep a man in prison for life than it is to kill them so if it's purely for money then that's no excuse either. Very easy information to look up.

Americans will die by the sword because that's all they know. You can't kill your problems away, you MUST face them and deal with them and learn from them.

If this guy can reach out from Prison and help people by telling them not to do what he did, then that's a reason not to kill him. To just play the 'poor family' card is ridiculous, if they haven't moved on since 1978 then they never will.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphisyou MUST face them and deal with them and learn from them.

you cant learn the dead back to life or learn the action into never occuring.

Originally posted by namehere

you dont get it do you, its not about making an example, revenge or any such things, its about punishment, taking a life should be punished equal to the crime, we should forgive but punishment shouldnt be voided just because they might change or might regret things, the dead wont get to enjoy music, get to write books, see the sky, etc, etc so what kind of justice is it that he can?

I do get what U are saying, my point is that killing him is not equal punishment, hell it really isn't punishment at all beacuse he will be dead and no longer suffer for what he has done. He won't be able to "think" about what he has done any longer because he is dead.

Just doesn't sound like punishment for what he has done in life to me.

you keep denying justice to your people so YOU can feel morally superior and feel good about yourself, no those effected by murder dont matter to you as long as your morality feels justified, no their loss is meaningless as long as you feel morally superior, forget justice if you feel so good about that.

I don't make the rules, I am glad we don't condone murdering people just because they did though, that is all. Besides, I am not that arrogant.
And I am one of the people "effected by murder', have been very recently and probably will again. But I would rather see these killers punished in a way they can FEEL for the rest of their days. I don't want the man who murdered his wife, my cousin, killed, nooooo I want him alive so he can live with what he has done until God calls on him and judges him. THAT is punishment enough for me. No human has the right to kill, not even the legal ones.

And your last statement implies I give a damn about people who mess up, I really don't, I only posted on here because of the insensitive and inhumane comments I have read on this particular case.
I did not nor do I ever get on anybody's case about how they feel about what we are discussing so I resent your comments about me personally.
I don't hold it against U though.

I am done. Carry on


[edit on 12-12-2005 by ImJaded]

All I can say is that Mr. Williams' innocent victims haven't had the luxury of a jury of their peers, 25 years of appeals, cable television, visits from Hollywood stars, the liberal media kissing their rear-ends and making them into the greatest thing since sliced bread, or the luxury of a last meal and an easy leathal injection. Rather, they were brutally shot to death with a shotgun in a senseless act of violence without the option of clemency afforded to them.

Just because its taken 25 years to do what should have been done 24 years ago doesn't make it any less right. The problem is that we've allowed this process to be drawn out so long, thus losing its purpose. For those who don't think that the death penalty can serve as a deterrant (and I agree that it is debatable since we've allowed those who are against it to force us into keeping murderers alive for decades after their sentences), then I have a legal proposal for you all. It was once given by a brilliant man who's name unfortunately escapes me at the moment. How about we change the law so that those who commit murders on Monday, Wednesday and Friday are sentenced to death, and those who commit murders on the remaining days are sentenced to life without parole. Then let's see if the death penalty is really a deterrant!

Originally posted by ImJaded

I do get what U are saying, my point is that killing him is not equal punishment, hell it really isn't punishment at all beacuse he will be dead and no longer suffer for what he has done. He won't be able to "think" about what he has done any longer because he is dead.
No human has the right to kill, not even the legal ones.

And your last statement implies I give a damn about people who mess up, I really don't, I only posted on here because of the insensitive and inhumane comments I have read on this particular case.
I did not nor do I ever get on anybody's case about how they feel about what we are discussing so I resent your comments about me personally.
I don't hold it against U though.

why not, the dead cant enjoy life, so neither should he and if there is life after this he can have eternity to think it over and ask their forgiveness.

why not?

no your own words imply such, sorry if you dont like being called on it.
i've seen you many times dont act innocent of moral bias here.

most of you who are sympathetic to this "reformed" Tookie (he still uses his gang name and denounces gangs?) forget one thing....

IF HE IS TO BE GIVEN CLEMENCY, HE NEEDS TO ADMIT TO THE WRONGDOING FIRST!!!

good job, Gov, and I am counting the minutes til frytime!

punishment is revenge, and you can sense the vengence in everyones tone as they write on here. to say its not would be talking with a blind view. justice is vengence, whoever told you different was just trying to convince you justice is good because as i recall religion doesnt condone revenge.

you can say whatever you want. but killing one more doesnt serve any "justice". it simply takes one more person off the planet that made so severe mistakes. its foolish to think anyone will learn from this. alot of these people dont do crime because its the cool thing to do. they do it because they are deprived and want what otherwise they would probably never have. you can type away in your warm home all you want saying how wrong he was, but does anyone ever look into the full story? never, just that he murdered 4 people, so he deserves to die. im not saying what he did was just but when you find yourself at the very bottom of the foodchain, and no one gives a damn about your welfare, you think your gunna care about theirs?

also dont bring jesus into this conversation. hed be damning the same people trying to justify such actions as killing williams.

Originally posted by namehere
why not, the dead cant enjoy life, so neither should he and if there is life after this he can have eternity to think it over and ask their forgiveness.

why not?

no your own words imply such, sorry if you dont like being called on it.
i've seen you many times dont act innocent of moral bias here.

lol you think hes going to be enjoying life? hahaha what a joke. youve obviously never visited a jail before or you wouldnt have the same opinion as you do. ever wonder why some people rather die then be arrested and go back to jail? what if there is no afterlife? hmmm, i think we would be letting him off extremely easy.

I admit I haven't read this thread..but....you know what...kill the mother. All I have to say. He deserves it. Did he think about clemency when he killed so and so........And SnoopDog waving his picture around is going to change anything...when they admit to killing people?

Would it be any different if these people were Iraqi? I just wonder....now I'll read the thread and see what people say.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Personally, I would prefer death to life in prison

WOW Grady...see we can agree on something. So what...he has made his piece with God......at least he will go to heaven unlike so many people who deny God ......right Grady? BTW...I'm not refuting you on anything...I believe he deserves to die.

Originally posted by grimreaper797lol you think hes going to be enjoying life? hahaha what a joke. youve obviously never visited a jail before or you wouldnt have the same opinion as you do. ever wonder why some people rather die then be arrested and go back to jail? what if there is no afterlife? hmmm, i think we would be letting him off extremely easy.

you never been imprisoned have you, body or criminal imprisonment doesnt mean you cant enjoy being alive, i understand imprisonment quite well, if you can breathe you can enjoy life.

I agree with the previous post. Should we as a people pay for this man to watch all the cable he wants? Should we as a people shell out more money for him to have an education...even though it took me over $50,000 dollars to achieve one? I say no.....I'm sick of the jail system these days. And yes, I've HAVE been in jail. So don't even try that crap. I say fry the mother......because he fried so many other mothers in his wake. Should Hitler get Clemency?