This is exactly what Israel wants, a war with an rogue Arab nation with a powerful allie on either side of the borders, the US. This is what Bush wants, his crusade against anything Islamic/fundamentalistic.

My best guess is Sharon would be using this to 'step up' suicide bombings in Israel so he can create an excuse to march back on Gaza and wherever else he pleases.

Originally posted by subz
Interesting. Is there still any evidence Iran is doing anything that breaks the NPT? If there is I haven't seen it, maybe Riwka has some?

Maybe Iran can accept terms that forgo its right to nuclear power if the Israelis dismantle their own secret nuclear weapons arsenal?

Perhaps you are more than willing to accept the chance of Iran attacking Israel and using anything in it's power to make such attack successful, but the Israeli government is not so willing to take that chance, and they shouldn't be, more so after all the statements from the new Iranian president about "wiping Israel off the map" etc.

Maybe you like to see just as sabble rattling every statement, and action, the president, and government of Iran has made, but maybe you would see it differently when the lives of a whole people lies in your hands and you can do something to assure the survival and protection of those people.


[edit on 12-12-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Frosty
This is exactly what Israel wants, a war with an rogue Arab nation with a powerful allie on either side of the borders, the US. This is what Bush wants, his crusade against anything Islamic/fundamentalistic.

My best guess is Sharon would be using this to 'step up' suicide bombings in Israel so he can create an excuse to march back on Gaza and wherever else he pleases.

Humm....do you happen to have any evidence to support your claims? or are they merely your opinion?.....

i would like to see any real evidence to support any of the claims you made above.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by subz
What makes people think Americans would tolerate a war against Iran before North Korea?

North Korea is the economic armpit of the known universe and Iran has oil and a Caspian Sea coast?
North Korea is the strategic armpit of Asia and Iran's geography practically controlls the Persian Gulf?
North Korea can nuke our troops and Iran *probably* can't?
North Korea has allies that have proven their loyalty in the past, and have strong nationalist reasons for getting involved even if it's not smart: Iran does not?

In short, I'm reminded of a line from the movie "Spaced Invaders":
"Why would Mars want to attack the puny forces of Earth?"
"Beacause we'd win!"

Israel doesn't have the man power to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, any one who thinks they do is dreaming. As mentioned in the opening post, "this is no Osirak".

Special ops and a little accuracy with the proper selection of ordinance should do the trick actually. Maybe not the first time I grant you, but with a few sorties on the targets which didn't go down the first time you'd get your results. It's not as if you need to roll into Iran with tanks to blow up a few bunkers and a few dozen buildings.
A few major sorties, some strictly denied assisstance from American aircraft perhaps, disavowed SF incursions from Iraq- the whole thing would be over in a day or two- Israel would probably lose a lot of the men they put in, but they'd accomplish their objective before Iran could mobilize a serious response, and even if they didn't get 100% success Russia would be frantic to stop the war, so the only barrier to UN inspections would likely be China, and they could be blackmailed/bribed into OKing inspections if the US was willing to work hand in hand with Israel in this.

Even if Israel can't get the job done on its own, it may very well be willing to throw out an ill-fated attempt just so to piss Iran off so that the US in Iraq will be caught in the middle and be forced into war with Iran- assuming that we aren't prepared to do it willingly already.

Well everyone thinks Russia would not get involved but the USA would for Israel
People think about this.... Russia, a country that is hurting for money has close buisness ties with Iran, who is supplying Russia with income. So Russia is just going to sit back as Israel destroys one of Russias buisness deals.

I dont think so, Russia needs Iran and Iran needs Russia, I believe in the worst case scenario Russia would back up Iran and would do what is needed to back its profits.


Money means everything in the world today, nothing is getting cheaper. So why not protect your income.

Think about it!

With any luck, Irans allies and israels allies will let these two stroke it out by themselves...

It was totally stupid for the Iranian president to openly threaten Isreal... by doing so, they provided the one requirement to needed for Israel to have free reign in its defensive efforts...

and as far as attacking Iran... I really hope we dont get involved... it aint our fight... or any other non jewish country really... and dont tell me that Israel is the only democracy in that area, and we have to support them... aint true...

we have many other fair government friends in that area (Jordan, Turkey) that are much more supportive of us, than Israel.

So they will do, what they will do.
how about we sit out this round...

what i kinda put together is this.
A wile back when the U.S. was first saying that Iran had nukes. Russia at that point and time said if the U.S. invades Iran that the U.S. would face extreme consequences. china stated about dumping a lot of $$ into Iran helping it get on its feet. so you will have china there also. protecting its investment.

Israel is not going to wait to have the U.S. back them up. they know as soon as it starts that china and Russia will be their. and that will make the U.S. think 2x before entering it. but with our gov. (the U.S.) will make it look like we are forced to go in. but we will go in late or under cover.

i also strongly believe Iran has nukes already. they have been working with Russia for to long to NOT to have them. Russia is very well known to sell anything they have for the right price.

one other thing i would like to point out is the fact that you can tell the U.S. has did some teaching in israel. they are making war appointment's now like we do. cant wait for the local P.D. to start doing the same so i can tell when i can speed down the road and when not too. and when they will be over at my house to arrest me. think ill be home then?

This is funny...

Iran can talk about developing nukes and "wiping israel off the map".

That's all good.

But as soon as Israel starts preparing her own troops on her own soil for potential conflicts from a nation that repeatedly threatens her, suddenly Israel has initiated World War 3.

What a joke.

I guess we will find out if Israel really calls the shots in the ME. If Israel attacks Iran it will spell deep- doo-doo for the US in Iraq. Talk about renewed hostilities. People tend to forget that Iraq has a population of almost 25 million people and the US forces there are less than a quarter million. If Israel attacks Iran it will be a DISASTER for the US in Iraq. For that reason, I think the US will put as much pressure as possible on Israel to wait for diplomatic progress. So, if Israel goes ahead with the attack? Well, that would be the biggest backstab of the century. Those who speculate that the US wants war with Iran are mistaken, I believe. In the end, I think this ends up just like North Korea, Pakistan, India, welcome to the nuke club.

Edit: Censor circumvention.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by intrepid]

So, um, don't you think that Iran should get to work on developing a nuclear bomb for defense? I mean, they ought to feel threatened, right?

Maybe since they know they can expect an imminent attack, they ought to put together an Iranian Coalition of the Awesome, and just go in and invade Israel. Drop some huge bombs on Tel Aviv, Tel Atij, Jerusalem, etc and move troops in to occupy.

I mean, there's a precedent, isn't there?

They can be fairly sure in this case that

1) they will find WMDs that might be used against their country.
2) the country intends to attack them either conventionally or with nukes
3) the country they intend to attack has almost all its neighbors afraid of it


Seems pretty cut and dried, no?

i'm probably going to be condemned by some of you for the direction i am about to take, but after reading some of the last few posts i started thinking.....

some of the modern day interpretations of revelations talk about an attack of israel from the combined forces of russia and iran, which is supposed to be miraculously stopped by the hand of god, ushering in the beginning of the seven year tribulation. now, i'm not saying that i completely agree with this take on prophecy, but i am wondering what the rest of you think of this scenario, considering the anti-israeli posturing of the iranian president, the investments russia has there, and the preparation that israel seems to be making, which could cause a preemptive first strike by iran.

comments?

Originally posted by Jakomo

So, um, don't you think that Iran should get to work on developing a nuclear bomb for defense? I mean, they ought to feel threatened, right?

Yes, absolutely!

Nations that call for others to be wiped off the map are definitely defense oriented

What would you say if it was a different country they threatened besides Israel?

I'm sure the tune would be different as we've proven in other threads lately.

It's one thing when countries speak of "wiping" each other "off the map", but it's another thing entirely when a half-dozen nukes could literally accomplish that task. This is the situation which Israel faces. Look at the size of the nation, and its population centers. Hell, probably 2 nukes would cripple it enough for a large scale conventional invasion. Of course such a small country, surrounded by hostile governments, has to speak in terms of preemptive strikes. It is a matter of survival for them.

Originally posted by Djarums
This is funny...

Iran can talk about developing nukes and "wiping Israel off the map".

That's all good.

But as soon as Israel starts preparing her own troops on her own soil for potential conflicts from a nation that repeatedly threatens her, suddenly Israel has initiated World War 3.

What a joke.

Why ask yourselves?
Why would Israel publicly say this, along with Iran saying publicly that Israel should be wiped off the map.

Are they playing a game?

The state of Israel was indeed the greatest tragedy in early middle-eastern history... And now with the Sharon regime, it's being pushed as far as being the trigger to the biggest tragedy in HUMAN HISTORY... perhaps since what's commonly known as the "Great Flood" or the last ice age.

Once Israel attacks Iran, Iran will retaliate using every devastating weaponry and troops that they have in store, without even thinking for a second. But it ain't gonna stop there... since the US will also try to make its move to defend or avenge Israel, and then we'll see either Russia or China diving into the conflict as the US struggles to maintain "order" in Iraq and domination in Iran. My guess at this time: China will invade through Afghanistan (open war might probably also explode between pakistan and India), and Russia the stans, in support of China's move; and it's probably at this time that all hell will break free on Earth.

Let's all hope and pray that at least diplomatic actions will solve this madness before the state of Israel gets too far...

===> To the Jewish and Palestinian people now in Israel: Get the F%#& OUT of Middle-East if you wanna stay alive, quick!!!

Here's what it boils down too. It's not WW3, Who's going to attack Isreal after? Isreal Knows the cost of attacking Iran, America knows too. Besides a 1000% increase in Islamic terror, There will be anarchist attacks, Countries, who are against us policy, will use their economic power, and Sink the Dollar.

Besides Isreal will be attack where ever they go.

Isreal wont go war with Iran

and Iran cant bomb Isreal

the sitation is isreal have the upper hand if there is a war. They already got there spys in Iraq

For real, it's very true, they are playing games, all of them, this is not Iraq of the 1980's this is iran, and aggravated Islamic faith, that is being attacked by all fronts, and will be of course pushed to a corner, Isreal can't win a war with, Iran theoritcally with convential weapons, and will have to resort to nuclear weapons