Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
The only thing the various Aboriginal societies produced were their societies. (yes, yes, and a few hand prints on cave walls and rock paintings in Kakadu, etc.

The single biggest acheivement they had, and I'm not denigrating it at all (just the opposite), is that with an incredibly limited gene pool they survived without inbreeding for tens of thousands of years. Thanks wholly and solely to the incredibly complex rules of "skin" and "caste" they developed to prevent just such a catastrophe from occurring.

Oh, and they pretty much didn't rape the land they way we have.

I was referring to the 200 years of "white" colonisation and what we've acheived. What has our society acheived that is so incredibly superior to Lebanon?

A bunch of drunk, flag-wearing, chest-beating, dole-bludging bogans? Some acheivement.

Lebanon's history goes back thousands of years. Ours, that is the people on Cronulla Beach "defending" Australia, goes back 200 years. And then it begins with criminals.

Looks like we've come a long way...

You sound really bitter, i love the place , and i flew here and wasnt born here !!


I agree the enviroment has taken a pounding here, but i bet its taken a lot less of a pounding than virtually every other country on the planet. We have great enviromental protection, world heritage areas, national parks , recycling centers,animal refuges, and so much more going on to help the enviroment. Hell a enviromental scientist friend of ours gets on government trips all the time to monitor frog habitats and other great little projects.

I think the big thing weve acheived that is far superior to Lebanon is a free country with equality for all (all sexes/colours/faiths/religions/sexual orientation), a country that was formed on a vote, not a war.

If lebanon is so fantastic, go live there, i would if i shared your conviction. Im sure alot of Lebanese must dissagree with you thou or they wouldnt live here ? just a thought.

Cheers.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by NumberCruncher]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

I was referring to the 200 years of "white" colonisation and what we've acheived. What has our society acheived that is so incredibly superior to Lebanon?

They've produced a wealthy, technologically advanced, generaly peaceful society that people around the world are flocking to in great numbers to live or to attend schools.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

They've produced a wealthy, technologically advanced, generaly peaceful society that people around the world are flocking to in great numbers to live or to attend schools.

Here, here couldn't have described Australia better myself in 2 lines.

You have voted AceOfBase for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by rogue1]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

I have just voted you and ignorant moron. That's an epithet, in case you were wondering.

Moron.

Ignorant.

Moron.

d@#$head.

Ignorant moron.

You trying to tell me something here?

Your the one that needs a reality check, not me.

Maximu§

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

I was referring to the 200 years of "white" colonisation and what we've acheived. What has our society acheived that is so incredibly superior to Lebanon?

They've produced a wealthy, technologically advanced, generaly peaceful society that people around the world are flocking to in great numbers to live or to attend schools.

Also a reason the NWO and their puppets, our Government, would want to stir up (as they have with unjust policies) tention and hatred in and for our nation.

An example of peace, freedom and education for ALL, who desire and seek it, regardless of colour, cast or religion, is something counter to "their" agenda.

Yes the Aboriginal community still lacks in much, but that is despite countless calls from "Australians", to their Government of "another agenda", to right those wrongs.

Put the "blame" on those Misleading, not the Mislead,> reguardles of ethnisity<, or you are being... "racist".

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

A bunch of drunk, flag-wearing, chest-beating, dole-bludging bogans? Some acheivement.

On which planet do you live? It is obviously not here. Yes, there are a few drunk flag waving idiots. EVERY country has them and so have we for years. Just now it is the ‘flavour’ of the week. Plastered all over the news media. But if this is all you think we are about then I say wake up take a good look you might learn something.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Yes the Aboriginal community still lacks in much, but that is despite countless calls from "Australians", to their Government of "another agenda", to right those wrongs.

Yes they do and they have been given millions and millions of dollars, a big junk of the land and still many do not help themselves. You can play the ‘oh woe is me card’ forever or you can demand that your own (not referring to you personally) elders also do the right thing by you – and many haven’t. Half of the globe has been conquered by rape pillage and plunder over centenaries should we now start to try and give it all back the original owners (I assume that is one of the things you are referring to). I guess that would at least keep us occupied for a few hundred years and give a few people something to do.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Yes the Aboriginal community still lacks in much, but that is despite countless calls from "Australians", to their Government of "another agenda", to right those wrongs.

Quote originally posted by LadyoftheLake
Yes they do and they have been given millions and millions of dollars, a big junk of the land and still many do not help themselves. You can play the ‘oh woe is me card’ forever or you can demand that your own (not referring to you personally) elders also do the right thing by you – and many haven’t. Half of the globe has been conquered by rape pillage and plunder over centenaries should we now start to try and give it all back the original owners (I assume that is one of the things you are referring to). I guess that would at least keep us occupied for a few hundred years and give a few people something to do.
_______________________________________________________________


No I was refereing to things like reasonable, access to health, education and justice (which the impossition of Western cultures and law has made a neccecity for them) in their remote communities.

Remoteness ceases to become a problem to, say 'investers' in the tourism industry or mining companies, but is still withheld from those without the means to 'buy' it.

This problem is also made worse by corrupt Aboriginal leaders (not being racist, I can admit they exist) and a lack of understanding, of their unique problems, being fully explained to the general population.

However this is a side issue to the topic of the thread and only mentioned as an example, that though not perfect, we are by far, NOT a racist nation, and it was injustice that fueled the gathering of so many, 'that day at the beach', and not racism.



[edit on 15-12-2005 by suzy ryan]

Originally posted by Lady of the Lake

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

A bunch of drunk, flag-wearing, chest-beating, dole-bludging bogans? Some acheivement.

On which planet do you live? It is obviously not here. Yes, there are a few drunk flag waving idiots. EVERY country has them and so have we for years. Just now it is the ‘flavour’ of the week. Plastered all over the news media. But if this is all you think we are about then I say wake up take a good look you might learn something.

How quickly we forget Pauline Hanson and her ilk.

The fact that you didn't understand my posts shows that you need to start reading, then you might notice something. Remember the bit about being deeply, deeply ashamed?

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Yes the Aboriginal community still lacks in much, but that is despite countless calls from "Australians", to their Government of "another agenda", to right those wrongs.

Yes they do and they have been given millions and millions of dollars, a big junk of the land and still many do not help themselves. You can play the ‘oh woe is me card’ forever or you can demand that your own (not referring to you personally) elders also do the right thing by you – and many haven’t. Half of the globe has been conquered by rape pillage and plunder over centenaries should we now start to try and give it all back the original owners (I assume that is one of the things you are referring to). I guess that would at least keep us occupied for a few hundred years and give a few people something to do.

Ever lived in Central Australia? On the Homelands, that big junk of land we gave them? I have. It's the third world. It was actually worse than my wife's subsistence rice-farming village in Cambodia.

Do you know what the health problems and numbers are regarding the Abroigines? Just about 100% of those health problems are directly attributable to white Australia. Know what the percentage of Aboriginal prisoners in Australia is per capita of the prison population, or what the per capita of the Aboriginal population imprisonment rate is?

That land you're so proud to have given them includes Maralinga and every other nuclear test site. Hmm, useful stuff that is.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Do you have any clue about Lebanon's recent history? Or why it happened?

Just a thought.

Can you fill me in on why it happened?

I blame vegemite and the fact that they serve beer in oil cans.
With a combo like that there is bound to be violence eventually.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
You sound really bitter, i love the place , and i flew here and wasnt born here !!


I agree the enviroment has taken a pounding here, but i bet its taken a lot less of a pounding than virtually every other country on the planet. We have great enviromental protection, world heritage areas, national parks , recycling centers,animal refuges, and so much more going on to help the enviroment. Hell a enviromental scientist friend of ours gets on government trips all the time to monitor frog habitats and other great little projects.

Oh, man. You are now living in one of the most environmentally-degredated countries on earth. Suggest you open your eyes and look around. The Caspian region is about the only place that's done worse on a similar scale. The deforestation of Haiti is a drop in the ocean compared to what we've done. In Germany they identified their pollution problems 20 years ago and began to do something about it. What has Howard done? Refute Kyoto and slash the Green Energy RandD budget. Some protection. Say, what is Jabiluka?

I think the big thing weve acheived that is far superior to Lebanon is a free country with equality for all (all sexes/colours/faiths/religions/sexual orientation), a country that was formed on a vote, not a war.

If lebanon is so fantastic, go live there, i would if i shared your conviction. Im sure alot of Lebanese must dissagree with you thou or they wouldnt live here ? just a thought.

Cheers.

Do you have any clue about Lebanon's recent history? Or why it happened?

Just a thought.

"No matter how far or how wide I roam
I still call Australia home."

Thanks Peter Allen,

Chhers.

I simply dont accept Australia being as one of the most enviromentally denegrated countries on Earth.
If you could link some articles from reputatble sources to this theory i would be interested to read.
Haiti is approximatly 250x smaller than the continent of Australia, so it is easy to say we have more enviromental damage than they.

Ok im sort of losing track of your point regarding Lebanon, you became upset when someone said Australia was a far better country than Lebanon.
A few people have since explained why Australia is infact a far better country but instead of addressing these statements or proving them wrong as you seem to beleive, you simply come back and ask me if i have a clue about Lebanese history.

Ill go one better on history and tell you something you already know, and that is about the Western world being more advanced than the entire Middle East for 1000 years.
It gos back to the days of the old crusades the west was in some ways struggling to keep the Muslim ferocity at bay, In the midst of all these goings on a fantastic thing was happening, The Renaissance, born from a mixture of Roman values, medieval piety, and a unique respect for commerce and entrepreneurialism, which then led to other movements like humanism, the Scientific Revolution, and the Age of Exploration. Even while fighting for its life, Europe was preparing to expand on a global scale.

So all of a sudden a new powerful and wealthy Europe had rendered the once fearsome Muslim armies obsolete and simply no longer worth a crusade , and pretty much since this time the middle east has festered in a big mess, yet you claim that the statement that Australia is a better country than Lebanon is merely the opinion of a brainless moron.

Please try to prove me wrong, i know i live in the promised land, and i live here by choice, i enjoy all the freedoms that every Human being should, and sadly today a majority of the world still cant enjoy the same freedoms.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Apoc
I blame vegemite and the fact that they serve beer in oil cans.
With a combo like that there is bound to be violence eventually.

lol good call.

Better check your dates again.

When were the crusades?

When was the renaissance?

Say, how much money did the Genoese and Venetian traders make from selling to the Muslims? So much for piety.

How many Christians went to the defence of Constantinople? So much for piety.

No, I ask you about Lebanese history because people were comparing Australian society to Lebanese. Try learning a little about the country before you dismiss it.

For hundreds of years Lebanon was as comfortable to live in as western Europe. For 30 years they have had civil war and then occupation, by Syria and Israel. As well as having to house Palestinians ejected from their land by Israel.

Ask the Aborigines about occupation and dispossession...They weren't even Australian citizens until the 60s. So much for our advanced society, can't even make the only true "Australians" citizens.

And you simply won't accept...go ask the farmers, or, better yet, the people of Adelaide about the water quality in the Murray River. How long was that last drought we had? How much of our forest cover have we cut down? Ever seen the soil erosion in water courses on crop land in Australia? Find out when the last time Darling dried up was, then the time before that...open your eyes. Look around.

My dates are roughly to avoid having to seek reference, but i think you realise this.


Look its all well and good to learn from history (well we should but dont ),
but theres nothing to be gained by dwelling on it, trying to hold people of today accountable for the actions of past generations is not only pointless but dangerous.

I didnt dismiss Lebanese society as you say, i simply agreed with other posters opinion's about Australia being a "better" country, i think even you are now struggling to dissagree with this fact.

I hope your not trying to pin the blame for draughts on a country of 20mil out of a world of 6 billion people, its commonly accepted there is global warming be it natural or man made, i beleive in a combination of the two.

The best thing the world can do for climate change/pollution in my opinion is by pouring a trillion dollars into developing zero emission motor cars, but that would also have the side effect of destroying much of the middle easts economy.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Better check your dates again.

When were the crusades?

When was the renaissance?

Say, how much money did the Genoese and Venetian traders make from selling to the Muslims? So much for piety.

How many Christians went to the defence of Constantinople? So much for piety.

No, I ask you about Lebanese history because people were comparing Australian society to Lebanese. Try learning a little about the country before you dismiss it.

For hundreds of years Lebanon was as comfortable to live in as western Europe. For 30 years they have had civil war and then occupation, by Syria and Israel. As well as having to house Palestinians ejected from their land by Israel.

The crusades were from the 11th to 13th centuries and then in the 14th and 15th centuries they had the renaissance.

It's true that the Christians failed when they let Constantinople fall to the Turks and that was very unfortunate. They should have all rushed in to help defend them.

As far as Lebanon is concerned, I think you need to read some history on that country if you think the trouble only just started in the 20th century.

There were a number of massacres of maronite Christians by the Druze long before Israel was created, even before the Balfour declaration was issued.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by AceOfBase]

There was also a 14th century crusade and ottoman invasion.
There was a 15th century crusade.

The Renaissance has no real starting point or place but its accepted that it started in 13th century Italy and spread and lasted into the 16th century.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Now now now that explains so much of your irrational views, 16 years ago you came across a couple of racist surfers. So your now emotionally scared and already had an opinion on these riots before they even started ?

Thats not my view. I linked you to a story

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
That was o.k. was it? A bunch of "white" Aussies lash out en masse once and that justifies these goons, but the "whites" aren't aloud to return the favour in kind?

What favour were they returing?

the cronulla residents responded by bashing anyone arab looking person for no reason?. yes it sure does justifing it

spitting on people,bashing people, raping girls

And this doesn't happen in sydney anway?. Jesus how many people are raped that go unreported how many people get spit on and dont do anything. How many people get bashed.

I believe it was in reference to these idiots roaming the beach abusing families, spitting on people, threatening to rape girls. You can read can't you?

And the worse of the bogans do not do that?. or even the average aussie?.

And all the things bad are blamed on the lebanese. Maybe people only remember the bad thigns asociated with the people they dislike instead of the the bad thigns the people you like do.

eg. you mostly remember when the butter side down hits the floor instead of when it lands on the butter side up