A Conspiracy Against Children: Exactly who is out of control?

man thats one messy post right there


i dont see the need for insults, what exactly did i say that made you write that? I really want to know.

I mean i get what youre saying and i agree with most of it but was there a point to what you said?



peace

Thanks for making my point for me. Much appreciated.
It also makes my point in the board on "Education and media posted today under "How to control people." This is important read what I posted to Suzy.
There is no insult here...you did it yourself. Any perception of insult is in your ego. What you did not do is debate the points in the post.

Thanks,
Orangetom

loam,

You deserve every WATS award you received for this thread.

This is just an absolutely appalling reality !!!

I feel like there truly is a conspiracy against the youth. And even more appalling than that , we are the adult voters that elect the people voting against our own children.

( I personally think "weed" should be legal for adults, but not accessable to children.)

I was floored to read today that despite strict penalties and an all time high number of arrests for "Marijuana" , 9 out of 10 high school children still say the drug is " easy to get".

This despite the fact that alcohol and tobacco use is at all time lows.

www.mpp.org...

A recently locked thread addressed the" Marijuana" conspiracy. Unfortunately almost any reference to "Marijuana" in the daily life of a poster is reason to lock a "marijuana' conspiracy thread.

However, I think the fact that this discussion directly affects own children shouldn't we at least address this issue? Prohibition obviously by the numbers does not work as well as restriction.

Isn't it strange that even when 9 out of 10 high school kids say its "easy for them to get" , that we can't even address the issues in a meaningful way on ATS.

Of course I'm Pro-ATS , but I'm Pro-children first and foremost. I personally think our own children are paying the price for our ignorance and willingness to ignore the issues and reject the fixes for our own problems.



[edit on 19-12-2005 by lost_shaman]

A few more choice tidbits to share....

Psychotropic drug prescriptions for teens surge 250 percent over 7 year period

Psychotropic drug prescriptions for teenagers skyrocketed 250 percent between 1994 and 2001, rising particularly sharply after 1999, when the federal government allowed direct-to-consumer advertising and looser promotion of off-label use of prescription drugs, according to a new Brandeis University study in the journal Psychiatric Services.

This dramatic increase in adolescent visits to health care professionals which resulted in a prescription for a psychotropic drug occurred despite the fact that few psychotropic drugs, typically prescribed for ADHD, depression and other mood disorders, are approved for use in children under 18. The study is one of the first to focus on prescriptions to adolescents, rather than children in general.

The study shows that by 2001, one in every ten of all office visits by teenage boys led to a prescription for a psychotropic drug. Other findings in the study show that a diagnosis of ADHD was given in about one-third of office visits during the study period. Also, between 14 and 26 percent of visits in which psychotropic medications were prescribed did not have an associated mental health diagnosis, said lead author Professor Cindy Parks Thomas, an expert on prescription drug trends, at Brandeis University's Heller School for Social Policy and Management...

That is pathetic...

And see this generally on the topic of teen abuse of OxyContin:

Teen Abuse of Painkiller OxyContin on the Rise

About 1 in 20 high school seniors now acknowledges taking OxyContin, a prescription drug for managing severe pain that, when abused, can be powerfully addictive.

In its annual survey of teen drug use, the National Institute on Drug Abuse reports that OxyContin use by 12th graders is up 40 percent nationwide in just three years. Five times as many 12th graders report using OxyContin than report using methamphetamine. The results have been tragic...

You get the sense that something is terribly wrong?

I read with disgust all those cases of handcuffing children. I have worked in the security industry (I worked in a hospital) and carried handcuffs while on duty. I never once had to use them. You'd be surprised how many angry and/or psychotic people you can calm verbally. In some instances physical force was necessary, but it didn't happen very often, and with my employer, it was the very last resort. I can only think of maybe 4 or 5 times where my colleagues had to handcuff anybody, and there was darned good reason for it. (I'm not supposed to go into details, so I won't) The guy with the record for most frequent arrests had 6 arrests in 5 years, or one every 10 months, and those people had real reasons to be cuffed, unlike those children. There might be a few rare cases where children need to be cuffed, but in virtually all cases, there is no need at all.

Granted, I didn't have much dealings with children, but a small child can be easily restrained by almost any adult. If you get proper training, there are ways to restrain people with various holds and stuff that are both effective and do not hurt the person. One of my colleagues was a tiny girl about 20-25 years old; she was about 4 ft 6 and I doubt she weighed 100 lbs. But she had lots of training in restraining people (because with her size, she needed it!) and she could hold down grown adults with those moves, and without hurting them.

The security company I worked for had various day courses on self defense, how to verbally defuse violent situations, and that sort of thing. I took one or two of them, and you can actually learn quite a bit in just 8 hours of one of those courses. Maybe our teachers and police should take a few of those; I bet they could have easily defused some of the incidents mentioned in this thread with that knowledge.

I have similar comments towards the taser usage. I'm actually in favor of tasers, provided that they are used in reasonable circumstances. They are an effective way of immobilizing a person in a way that, except in a few unfortunate instances, is essentially harmless. However, as with handcuffs, tasers should not be used unless absolutely necessary, and tasering children is ridiculous, stupid, and totally unnecessary. Again, from my security experience, we were instructed to always use the absolute minimum amount of physical force necessary to contain the situation. Did someone forget to teach this to the police?

In regards to the corporal punishment, I didn't actually know it was legal in Canada, since in my school district, it is banned. (I'm Canadian) According to this my district banned corporal punishment in 1990. That article is a good example of what I've been talking about. Look at these two quotes from that article, in regards to two Alberta schools:

The school hasn't used the strap once during the two years Wayne Martel has been principal. But Harakal thinks its mere presence acts as a deterrent.

In her 10 years, the school has used the strap just three times, she said. "It's not something you take and wave around to scare the kids with."

With statistics like that, I think it's safe to say those schools only strapped children when it was absolutely necessary.

If I ever have children, I want to either home school them, or maybe send them to a good private school, if I had the money. Things don't seem to be as bad here in Canada, at least in terms of violence, but the incredibly poor quality of public education here in Edmonton, where I went to school, is downright pathetic, and alone is sufficient reason to homeschool children.

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say something like this on ATS, but I will anyway, and take the warn if necessary, because it has to be said: Our society is pretty much shot to hell. The scandalous disregard we as a society have for children, our substandard system of so-called education, the growing abuses by law enforcement on the ordinary citizen, the kangaroo court systems whereby known criminals are permitted to walk free on technicalities, our increasing lack of morality and conscience, are all contributing to the disintegration of everything we should be holding dear to, but are instead destroying piece by piece, plunging down the path to self-destruction. Families are crumbling as divorce rates skyrocket and children suffer as a result. Schools and healthcare have their funding cut again and again, and the ordinary citizen suffers as a result. Children's minds rot in front of the televisions, the 'electronic babysitter' for the parent who simply cannot be bothered to rear the child they have borne.

Originally posted by Loam
You get the sense that something is terribly wrong?

The appropriate response to this question would circumvent the censors, but in the spirit of clean language I'll simply say ABSOLUTELY there is something wrong.

And what is it exactly that is wrong? I think a lot of it comes from people being too lazy. Too lazy to learn. Too lazy to work. Too lazy to make a difference. Too lazy to raise a child properly. A lot of it also comes from failure to take responsibility for oneself. So many people expect something for nothing, and are outraged when they do not get it. People also have a horrible habit of thinking that 'the rules' are good for society, but that they should be 'exceptions to the rule'. Like "speeding in your car should be illegal", but "I know how to drive properly, so it's okay if I speed."

Yes, I'm frustrated. I think our current society absolutely sucks. The trouble is, I have absolutely no idea what can be done about it. It seems to me like we've gotten to this point one tiny step at a time, that when summed together, become one giant social disaster in action. The problems have become so numerous and so large that they seem insurmountable.

Exactly who is out of control?

I have no idea. I'm not sure who is to blame. Quite frankly, I'm not sure I care. It's more important to fix the problem than point the finger. Any suggestions are more than welcome.

You have voted loam for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

And, as Loam has already done, I'm putting a link to this thread in my signature. I want to see this thread get as much ATS publicity as possible.

I've read through these posts and agree that there are occasions where children are mishandled by society. This is sad, but unfortunately how it has always been. The weak, whether old, young, or disabled, have always been set upon by the "stronger". But being the stickler for details that I am, I will risk some ire here by asking a few questions.

For example:

Originally posted by Relentless
For example, an extremely concientious 7 year old who has volunteered for monitor duty. It causes her to be 10 minutes late for whatever follows in her schedule and she is being publicly shamed for tardiness. This is downright traumatizing for this child who prides herself on perfection in whatever she does. What the hey?

So a young girl volunteers for a duty which she fulfills perfectly, but then is publicly chastised by - Who? for being ten minutes late? What is the nature of the shame inflicted on her?

Here's another, a 13 year old who is being harrassed by another student. The child is ADD and has a hard time not defending himself (controlling retaliation). The parents report it for weeks and the school does nothing, meanwhile they are nightly having to drum it into his head he can't retaliate. When it finally becomes physical (by the harrasser) the victim gets hauled away for defending himself and the aggressor gets nothing. What the hey?

By the way, hauled away in this school means taken into custody by the "system", the parents get a phone call that their child is no longer under their jurisdiction and they will get a phone call when their child is processed so they can pick them up. No additional information is provided. The phone call usually comes in a around 3AM by which time their child has been in a cell with a bunch of god knows what, being subjected to god knows what.

Excuse me? If I received a phone call that my child was "taken into custody" and I had to worry and wait until 3AM to be with them, heads would roll. And not my kid's head. Where does this type of treatment take place?

Mistreatment of children is a highly charged, emotional issue, and this is why I ask these questions. The situations seem so outrageous that I fell it is necessary to ask for additional details around them. Treatment such as this should surely have reached the newspapers or TV, so a link to those sources would be satisfactory. A single instance of mistreatment such as this from an institution can be explained in some cases because of inexperience, untrained teachers or whatever, but if this treatment represents school policy, then the institution needs to be closed down until attitudes and behavior change.

And I'm not singling out Relentless. Many other members here have spoken of similarly outrageous treatments.

Loam, your opening photo of that sad child is enough to make a stranger cry with sympathy. Was that child a victim of one of the abuses you list?

Here is a bizarre and disappointing story...

Toddler's Talking Elmo Book Asks 'Who Wants To Die?'

A mother in Dallas is one of several parents complaining about a new interactive book for toddlers in which Sesame Street character Elmo asks "who wants to die?" according to a Local 6 News report...

The company that makes the book said it has had several complaints concerning the book, according to the report.

Is this sick, or what?

Oddly enough the very first article from your first post happened in the town I live in. Yet I heard nothing about it. Even stranger is the link to the article is from Arkansas. I knew some of the police around here were pretty worthless but this is pathetic.

Although not long ago they suspended a little girl who was in 1st -3rd some thing like that for bringing sciccors to school which her mom got her for art class. Next I guess they will ban pencils or some thing. And before it's said that she might have been threatening others the teacher found them in her backpack.

Grant you there are some pretty big 10 year olds around here (these country folk are big as kids) but I don't realy see a need to be handcuffing, macing or using tasers on kids. Pretty sad when a cop can't handle a kid by them self.

As for the getting a paddling in school....well I can't tell ya how many times I got a paddling in school then would come home and get my tail whipped again. Honestly as long as the teacher is actually swatting the rear and and NOT the back you get over it in about 10 min or less. But that initial sting lets you know your getting them and you only got 1-3 swats. I would say let the teacher give swats I learned to behave or get swats it's more of a scare tactic or was with our teachers. But they took that out of the schools in this area years ago now they are not allowed to do that. But then again parents aren't allowed to whip their kids either.

Before any one says anything bad about whipping there is a difference between whipping and beating a kid. A whipping does not leave marks nor hurt the butt any longer than a few min.

[edit on 6-1-2006 by Raist]

"Before any one says anything bad about whipping there is a difference between whipping and beating a kid. A whipping does not leave marks nor hurt the butt any longer than a few min. "



Naw, it just teaches kids that if your big enough you can get away with beating the weak and defenseless, and if your frustrated with not getting thru to people you can always resort to violence, that's always a good lesson to teach kids early on.

Originally posted by bodebliss
"Before any one says anything bad about whipping there is a difference between whipping and beating a kid. A whipping does not leave marks nor hurt the butt any longer than a few min. "



Naw, it just teaches kids that if your big enough you can get away with beating the weak and defenseless, and if your frustrated with not getting thru to people you can always resort to violence, that's always a good lesson to teach kids early on.

yeah I know 90% of the population is all about beating anyone weaker than themselves.

Like I said you don't beat a child, a spanking is a few light taps on the butt. Of course that makes some one a serial killer though.

But what ever you think go watch more Doc Phil or better yet let the state raise your kid.

Loam
GREAT thread. IMO it's the most important one on ATS. I hope you'll forgive me if I add fuel to the fire.

EPA Proposes Using Wards of the State and the Mentally Handicapped for Testing Purposes



Also, one final jab at American Exceptionalism, if I may. We consume something like 80% of the world's child pornography.

Originally posted by loam
Here is a bizarre and disappointing story...

Toddler's Talking Elmo Book Asks 'Who Wants To Die?'

Is this sick, or what?

It's sick.

Is it also an act of terrorism? (Have to ask, even though I think the whole terrorism thing is being manipulated.)

I second WyrdeOne - great thread and very important.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Loam
GREAT thread. IMO it's the most important one on ATS.

Thank you, WyrdeOne.

I thought I'd share this newest gem:

Teachers put on leave over classroom sex

McKeesport officials have hired a lawyer to investigate whether the school district should fire two fourth-grade teachers who had sex in a classroom several years ago while other teachers stood watch at the door, officials said Thursday.

The district placed Patrick Collins, 54, former teachers union president, and Angela DiBattista, 50, on paid leave Wednesday while attorney Carl Beard of Altoona conducts the investigation.

EXCUSE ME???? ...while other teachers stood watch at the door!!!

Does that give you any indication how, at least in that school, those teachers thought about the job of educating our children???

...you couldn't make this stuff up... :shk:

Unbelievable.


[edit on 7-1-2006 by loam]

And let's not forget this thread....

Former Child Counselor, involved in a huge international child pornography ring, Guilty on 51 counts of Child Molestation

I hope FAIRFAX does not mind my re-posting a post made in the above thread, here in this one.

Originally posted by Fairfax

Actually, my child was the victim of a different Perpertrator. GET THIS, Whitmore was the "Counselor " that supposedly was helping my son deal with all of the emotional trama he had endured. Whitmore was the driving force in my pressing charges. He pushed me every step of the way to prosecute. He kept telling me "How are you going to live with yourself when they do this to another child, and you didn't stop them". He even helped write the victim impact statement. AND THE WHOLE TIME, HE WAS A SICK PERVERT doing the same thing to other children.

So, as you see, he was actually "working" in the capacity of someone who counsels children that have been victims!!!!! (I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT FACT MENTIONED IN ANY ARTICLES.)

YES, I was decieved by him, It never occured to me that a person counseling victims was indeed one of the "SICK PERVERTS".
What can I say, we are moving on with our lives. I NEED EVERY PARENT TO LEARN FROM MY EXPERIENCE!!!! TRUST NO-ONE, EVEN IN YOUR WEEKEST MOMENT, YOU HAVE TO PROTECT YOUR CHILD.

Location.

I am truly sorry, Fairfax, for your experience.

ou have voted loam for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

The best thread I have read in all my time on this site.

Thankfully, it isn;t so bad here in Britain, but there have been isolated cases. I shall post in here if I find any.

Thanks, aarghapanda.

Fla. Student Shot by SWAT Team Member

A SWAT team member shot and wounded an eighth-grader who appeared to be carrying a handgun at his middle school, leading to an evacuation of the school Friday morning.

...

Details of the shooting were sketchy, but Seminole County Sheriff's officials said no other students, teachers or school staff members at Milwee Middle School were injured.

Sheriff's officials had originally said the wounded boy had barricaded himself in a bathroom.

That last paragraph means what? That the story has now changed?

This one may be worth following...

[edit on 13-1-2006 by loam]

An excellent find by truthseeka

Bush advisor says Bush has legal power to torture kids?

That thread leaves me speechless.

:shk:

More on the Florida student:

abcnews.go.com...

Apparently, the kid had a fake gun, and the police ended up shooting him, believing the gun to be real. I don't fault the police here, assuming that the kid appeared like he was going to hurt someone, but if the kid wasn't threatening, whoever shot him should rot in jail for life. If the police truly believed that the teen was endangering others, then I can understand the decision to shoot, even though the result is still regrettable. The time to avoid the shooting was not the day it happened, but long before. This child was deeply troubled, as the following comments by those who knew him attest to:

Penley was a loner who "told me he wanted to kill himself dozens of times."

the boy had run away from home several times. Her 11-year-old son, Jeffery Swofford, said Penley had said he had something planned.

"He said `I hope I die today because I don't really like my life,'" Jeffery Swofford said.

The police shooting was just the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. The REAL problems happened months and years before this tragic incident. I don't know what happened to this poor kid to make him hate his own life so much, but I have to ask the question WHY didn't anyone do anything, after he threatened suicide multiple times and WHY didn't anyone address the reasons why he ran away from home multiple times.

Please, all parents on ATS, treat your kids better than this. Don't ignore them when they are in trouble, like the friends and family of this kid. You can't help all the kids in the world, but you can do wonders in your own home, if you only put in the effort.

edit to fix a comment I made that was factually incorrect

[edit on 15-1-2006 by DragonsDemesne]

Is homeland security teaching police forces to indiscriminently shoot young derainged children?

Hasn't the psychosis of pres. Bush's way of thinking permeated enough of society or do we have further to go?

Maybe beating kids in the hospital right after birth.

Or value judgements about their futures and branding right after birth.