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A Conspiracy Against Children: Exactly who is out of control?

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posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by cavscout
The whole system is FUBAR.


On that, we agree...


Take for example this article I just ran across... (I wasn't even looking...)




external imageexternal image

School Officials Propose Ban of Whole Milk

CHICAGO - Cartons of whole milk would be considered junk food, but baked Cheetos would not, under new rules proposed Friday by Illinois education officials.

The State Board of Education proposed the rules after Gov. Rod Blagojevich asked for a junk food ban in elementary and middle schools.

The new rules focus on the nutritional content of foods rather than broad categories of food.

Because of that, the proposed guidelines would allow 1 ounce bags of baked potato chips, even though all chips are now banned under the board's current definition of junk food. Whole milk would also be banned because of its high fat content, school officials said.



And then there is this unrelated article that really makes my blood boil:




Hunt continues for 1,300 children lost during Katrina

NEW ORLEANS -- Three months after Hurricane Katrina ripped through the Gulf Coast, the fate of more than 1,300 children remains unknown...

In the evacuations after New Orleans flooded, families were scattered across 48 states. Those overseeing evacuations, in their rush to clear people from the city, often separated families as they pressed them onto buses, helicopters and planes, which then went in different directions.

Documentation proving custody of children or other family ties was destroyed or lost. Access to phones and computers was minimal, creating gaps between the time families were separated and the time children were reported missing. Shelters had no coordinated system for feeding evacuees' names, birth dates and other information into a national database.

On top of that, many families were severely splintered even before the hurricane.

Many children had been in the care of aunts, grandparents, great-grandparents or unrelated guardians before the storm, and those caretakers often lacked information crucial to finding children, such as birth dates, names of the youngsters' friends, recent photographs and nicknames.

"They're scattered physically, which doesn't help, but they're also scattered socially," said Burke. "When you have this sort of family structure, it's very difficult. When they scatter, they're just gone..."



Unbelievable. Does this last story even make sense???


EDIT: BTW, that quote hurt me deeply as well...




Many tended to believe that the separation was their fault.



[edit on 11-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 07:39 AM
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That milk thing is interesting loam.


FYI - milk consumption is linked to obesity in children, and studies show clearly that the link has nothing to do with the milk's fat content. Kids are who drink skim or 1% are just as likely to become obese, if not more so. So the obesity-causing in milk culprit is not the fat content - it's something else. Wonder what that might be.




The missing kids piece is horrific - and not something I can comment on right now. Except to say childrens' stem cells are better for transplant and use in tissue engineering because the teleomeres are longer.


.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
That milk thing is interesting loam.


FYI - milk consumption is linked to obesity in children, and studies show clearly that the link has nothing to do with the milk's fat content. Kids are who drink skim or 1% are just as likely to become obese, if not more so. So the obesity-causing in milk culprit is not the fat content - it's something else. Wonder what that might be.





There is a thread on this school milk ban. See my post towards the bottom of this page for a brief explanation on what the problem with the milk and obesity really is.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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I agree with cavscout on the public schools issue.


1. Public schools are too large. Almost all of the school shootings in the late 90's took place in large schools, with student bodies of 2000 or more. Anthropological studies have shown that crime is basically non-existent when your "social universe" is less than 500 people. When you get above that level, there are strangers present that you don't know or trust. That's where crime begins.

2. Public schools are expected to take every kid. For instance, the kid who was punching out the principal cited earlier in the thread. I would bet good money that child was giving off warning signs long before this incedent. But the school officials cannot "make" the parents and kid come for counseling. They basically cannot refuse to take the kid. In a private school setting, the private school could refuse a kid who is in a downward spiral; though the privates I've used are all willing to work with families, and have asked the other parents to be especially understanding. But if the kid's parents won't work at helping their kid, well, bye-bye.

3. Public schools have quit teaching morals and consequences. When I was in high school, we had a civics class. One semester was basically micro-economics, how small businesses work, how to balance a checkbook, that sort of thing. It included a survey of communism, fascism, and democracy (this was cold-war era), as well as how democracies work in Canada, Europe, and Australia. The final portion of the class was talking about personal comportment, and how YOU fit into society, why we have laws, etc. I don't think schools in US have taught that in at least 10 years.

4. The public school is an artificial environment. Rhetoric aside, they put everyone of the same age in a room, and make you keep up (or slow down) to fit in with "the group." It is basically an assembly-line from the 1950's. It doesn't matter that you put the chairs in a circle, if you're still teaching them all the standardized material.

5. I was miserable in school. I had nightmares about it, even after I'd graduated from college. In the 6th grade, I tested at a "post-college" reading level. So there was nothing for me at school except rebelling. Eventually, they created an accelerated class for kids like me, and it is the only reason my brothers and I graduated. We were basically allowed to study whatever we wanted, as long as we could make a presentation to the others about what we'd learned. They KILLED OFF that program the year after I graduated.

6. From a law enforcement standpoint, juvenile law in TX (probably the whole US) needs to be re-written. The concept that, at age 17, you magically become a responsible person is a big part of the problem.

As far as holding someone down to restrain them instead of using handcuffs, you get into 3 big problems: First, that the restrainer is at risk of injury. Second, Even when the restrainer is much larger, it is fairly easy to break free of a human hand, given a minute or two, and enough rage. Third, holding someone (an adult) by hand with enough force to restrain them will leave marks. Like on TV.

I've never thought tasers should be legal. Voltage across the heart can kill. And I've always wondered what they'd do to an epileptic, or other siezure victim. What about pace makers????

I don't like pepper spray for similar reasons. It can kill an asmatic. and a lot of children experience childhood asthma.

There's still a big hole of how to restrain someone in a humane fashion. I don't like the thought of a cop leaving a mark on a kid, because he restrained by hand.

.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
The missing kids piece is horrific - and not something I can comment on right now. Except to say childrens' stem cells are better for transplant and use in tissue engineering because the teleomeres are longer.

God, I hope what you are implying is not true!!!



Originally posted by Relentless

Originally posted by soficrow
That milk thing is interesting loam.


FYI - milk consumption is linked to obesity in children, and studies show clearly that the link has nothing to do with the milk's fat content. Kids are who drink skim or 1% are just as likely to become obese, if not more so. So the obesity-causing in milk culprit is not the fat content - it's something else. Wonder what that might be.





There is a thread on this school milk ban. See my post towards the bottom of this page for a brief explanation on what the problem with the milk and obesity really is.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


I have always known this and consequently we too have only ever had organic milk in our home. Of course, Soficrow points out a potential prion problem that is just as bad...

My overall point with that article, though, is that Cheetos are better???
What chemical isn't in that stuff???


[edit on 11-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 12:38 PM
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Aware of the anti-social problems that develope from "socializing" children in a large school, we bought a property across the road from an eight student school before our children reached school age.

Thanks, dr_strangecraft, for pointing out the science behind this decision. Saddly, all but a few city, home schooling, parents took our decision as a personal insult against their parenting and so more determinately defended "the benifits" of large schools.

On the whole there are many social and financial presures to hand our children over to strangers from a very young age and the current demand from women to have more and more "child care" provided, frankly, terrifies me as not all are unaware of these places attracting workers for the purpose of access to the source of their lusts but still kid themselves they could "tell" if their workers were so inclined.

Whereas I don't expect 'society' to return to the fundimental belief that children deserve loving care above all our other pursuits, I do hope those who do will take on board the warnings in this thread and reclaim the right to raise their own children themselves.

For too long 'studies' and 'findings' that encourage us to follow harmfull and dangerous practices have gone unchallenged. Kids need the care of loving family more than any other 'stuff' or 'activities' we give up our care time of them to 'work to buy'.



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Corporal Punishment in Our Schools



State sanctioned abuse of our children?




School paddlings fewer, not gone

DELTA, Mo. — As he sits in his office at Delta High School, wearing blue jeans and a Nike T-shirt, Nate Crowden reaches to his left.

Atop a filing cabinet is a paddle, not unlike the one used at this rural, southeast Missouri school when Crowden was a student here in the 1970s. These days, Crowden is the principal.

“We don’t have any discipline problems here,” said Crowden, holding the narrow wooden paddle. “And one of the reasons we don’t is because we use this.”



Nice attitude, huh? But according the Society for Adolescent Medicine:



...Corporal punishment is an ineffective method of discipline and has major deleterious effects on the physical and mental health of those inflicted. There is no clear evidence that such punishment effectuates more discipline or better control in the classroom. Physically punishing children has never been shown to enhance moral character development, increase the student's respect for teachers or other authority figures in general, intensify the teacher's control in class, or even protect the teacher. Such children, in our view, are being physically and mentally abused and there are no data actually demonstrating that such victims develop enhanced social skills or self-control skills. Current research concludes that corporal punishment is not always a method of last resort, and that there is not an increase in violence in schools which reject use of this technique...

Current research in behavior modification concludes that using positive reinforcement techniques that reward appropriate behavior is more efficacious and long lasting than methods utilizing aversive techniques...

Research notes that corporal punishment constructs an environment of education which can be described as unproductive, nullifying, and punitive. Children become victims, and trepidation is introduced to all in such a classroom. There is a limited (if any) sense of confidence and security, and even those children who are witness to such abuse are robbed of their full learning potential. Students who are witnesses or victims of such abuse can develop low self-esteem, magnified guilt feelings, and the acquisition of anxiety symptoms; such results can have baneful results in the psychosocial and educational development of the students. When studies look at the milieu of these classrooms, one finds that all are subjects to less, not more, learning. The nurturing of open communication, so vital to effective education, is severely spoiled in such aversive settings.

Hyman et al. persistently assert that approximately one- half of students who are subjected to severe punishment develop an illness called Educationally Induced Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (EIPSD). In this disorder, there is symptomatology analogous to the Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSS). As with PTSS, EIPSD can be identified by a varying combination of symptoms characteristic of depression and anxiety. This mental health imbalance is induced by significant stress; with EIPSD the stress is the inflicted punishment. Such victimized students can have difficulty sleeping, fatigue, feelings of sadness and worthlessness, suicidal thoughts, anxiety episodes, increased anger with feelings of resentment and outbursts of aggression, deteriorating peer relationships, difficulty with concentration, lowered school achievement, antisocial behavior, intense dislike of authority, somatic complaints, tendency for school avoidance, school drop-out, and other evidence of negative high-risk adolescent behavior...

( Source. )




With the exception of Canada and one state in Australia, the United States is the only industrialized nation that continues to allow school corporal punishment. ( Source. )

Here is a map that identifies which states continue to allow the practice:



According to this website:




Injuries occur. Bruises are common. Broken bones, nerve and muscle damage are not unusual. An estimated 1% to 2% of all recipients of school corporal punishment require medical evaluation and treatment for injuries resulting from the punishment. Brain injury and even death has occurred in the U.S. due to school corporal punishment.



Here is recent example:




Paddling investigation by DHS continues

As a Community High School vice principal says the sheriff's investigation found no child abuse from corporal punishment administered by him, a state spokesman reports the Department of Children's Services is "still investigating" the paddling...

During Oct. 26-28, TV, Internet and newspaper reports quoted Freddy and Tracy Manus of Unionville and their son, Samuel, 14, as saying the eighth grader was paddled Oct. 19. The corporal punishment was for an alleged infraction of school bus behavior rules on Oct. 18...

The Smyrna doctor who diagnosed Samuel Manus as a victim of child abuse complied with state law that requires people suspecting abuse to report it to the Department of Children's Services...

"Samuel's injuries were unfortunate and excessive," she said Wednesday morning. "I'd hope that they've been an eye-opener to parents and administrators"" about corporal punishment.

The boy suffered "a knot and bruise on [his] lower spine [and] swelling due to excessive force ... punishment with a wooden paddle," Milligan wrote in her physician notes...




Sometimes, seeing is believing...



And here is recent photo I was able to find from an 2004 incident in Arkansas.




So how often does corporal punishment take place? That's a good question...

According to this article:




School paddlings fewer, not gone

According to data released this month by the U.S. Department of Education, Missouri ranks 10th nationally in annual paddlings at elementary and secondary schools. Missouri and Kansas are among 22 states that allow corporal punishment, but schools in Kansas deliver far fewer swats than Missouri.

According to the federal data — projections based on samplings from 6,000 districts and 60,000 schools, including 178 districts in Missouri and 122 in Kansas — Kansas used corporal punishment on 46 students during the 2002-03 academic year. Missouri used it on 6,875.



What??? Data from the 2002-03 academic year, based on "projections" from "samplings" only just released in November 2005!!!???


And look at this site that identifies 342,038 students were subjected to corporal punishment, based upon government statistics concerning the 1999-2000 School Year, but only released February, 2003. ( Source. )

Does that give you the warm and fuzzy that those numbers are right? Why the delay? Why the sampling?


Yet another dimension to the distressing material already documented in this thread...




[edit on 25-4-2006 by loam]



posted on Dec, 11 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by suzy ryan

On the whole there are many social and financial presures to hand our children over to strangers from a very young age and the current demand from women to have more and more "child care" provided . . . .


This will make me sound like some sort of hillbilly.

But I believe a lot of the disfunctionality of our culture comes from forcing us to put life-or-death trust in the hands of strangers.

Teachers are only one example. In our part of the world, it is rare for a public school teacher to have more than a college diploma and a teaching certificate. Yet, they are thought to be more knowledgable than either my wife or I, both of whom have at least one masters degree. This is even more ridiculous becuase my wife is a medical professional, having worked in some of the largest ER's in the nation, and being trained to spot child abuse.

But still, if one of our kids gets in trouble at school, it's WE who are treated with a hermeneutic of suspicion. The teacher is THE authority, period. Once, when I questioned a teacher's judgment, she threatened to "mark down" my child's academic performance! This is why we've gone to private school.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 01:21 AM
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I tend to agree with you about putting ones children in private schools if one can afford it.
My impression of public schooling is that it has tended twords the technique of seperating a childs dicipline away from parental influence and primarily on the influence of strangers to which you make reference in your post. A very dangerous person to this type of system is a parent of guardian who would teach thier values,beliefs, or diciplines to thier child.
I will also add..that in older times a educated person was considered a diciplined person. Concerning education one would in times past be asked what dicipline are you mastering or sometimes it is asked in what field are you diciplined..meaning educated? One does not anymore hear this concept expressed in public.

On another subject ..in your logo next to your name ..is that the solving of the 47th proposition of Euclid??? Its been awhile since Ive seen that term ..solver of the 47th problem??

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 02:25 AM
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Well, I'm having my reservations about private school for that matter.

This fall, we were looking at putting the very youngest in a private preschool. All the teachers and testers(!) said, "he's at least a year ahead of the other kids."

I was kind of surprised that a number of them went out of their way to point this out to us. I wondered if they were trying to make us feel special, and asked the Mrs. about why they thought this way. I asked her how he got a year ahead. "By being raised in our home" was her answer.

"Then why are we sending him off to school?" I ask. She says, "I really don't know. He got smart by being raised by us--so why are we stopping it? . . ."

We are talking about pulling all of our kids into our own homeschool. The kids are actually in favor of it; they want to "play" with us instead of having to do lessons they've already mastered.

We're still kicking it around. It will take a financial sacrifice (cutting back on our careers); but I enjoy my kids. Still exploring the social aspects. My kids are active in church during the week, and are becoming interested in scouting, so they won't be completely isolated. It turns out that homeschool is HUGE in our area, with associations and "social events" for the kids.

Not to sidetrack this thread. sorry. But it seems the only way to protect your people is to watch 'em yourself.

And yes, my byline is a reference to Euclid's 47th problem, and the solver thereof.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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Thanks for your reply. I agree.. the only way to protect your people is to watch them yourself.

I understand your reservation about private schooling in the situation you and Dr Frau are in. You have obviously instilled diciplines in them even beyond the private school level. I dont blame you for considering home schooling in this instance. It would be alot of work and yes there are financial considerations.
I have been hearing alot of people mentioning home schooling around here. I am not that familiar with it but I am given to wonder how difficult it would be compared to what passes for education in some public schools.
It would, however, take alot of dedicated time with ones children verses work hours...a problem for some familys no doubt.
Many a adult has come to this very crossroads. Do I want to invest in my career or my childrens futures and are they one and the same.


Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
But I believe a lot of the disfunctionality of our culture comes from forcing us to put life-or-death trust in the hands of strangers.



Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
"Then why are we sending him off to school?" I ask. She says, "I really don't know. He got smart by being raised by us--so why are we stopping it? . . ."


I totally agree with you. I can't imagine why anyone would put their kids in public schools these days. And I wouldn't even trust a private school. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about it, but there's never been any question in my mind, the vast majority of today's public schools are worthless and dangerous.

My opinion.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:44 AM
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I am desperately trying to find a homeschool website that quote their state's department of Education.

The letter was saying that homeschool parents need to realize that, even though a home environment can reduce the need for long hours of instruction (i.e. no time spent taking attendance, going to student's locker, etc) the parent needs to devote some standardized time per week to homeschool.

Here's the kicker:

The Dept of edcuation (Oklahoma?) was saying that, indeed, the parents needed at least three hours per week of homeschool to equal a week's attendance at public school !!!!!

WTFIUWTS !!!!!

I know, I know. You cannot believe it 'till you read it for yourself. I think Frau Dr. e-mailed it to our kin who think we are going nuts. I'll desperately trying to find it so you wont think I'm just some kind of drama king.

.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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How did I miss this thread?

Good work here loam. I hope this thread opens people's eyes as to what is happening in the 'free' world. Reading what is going on is sickening and disturbing.
Seeing schools beat children with a paddle is terribly wrong. If a parent were to do such a thing they would (or at least they should) be thrown in jail and their children would be taken away.
Hitting children only teaches them to become hitters themselves.

Tasers being used on children?!?
I had always heard that a taser is a tool to replace a gun. Does this mean that if the taser was not used a gun would of been used instead? Tasers were supposed to save lives not break down the will of children. Now I watch tasers being used all the time on "Cops" style shows on people who are already brought to submission.

Man this thread has really got my blood boiling. How screwed up does this world have to get before 'sleepers' wake up and put a stop to it all.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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It's as much mental abuse as physical from what I can see.

Today's episode comes from a little girl calling her mom at work. She is distraught, she (with another girl) is being punished for something she did during the after school program at the school. Her punishment - they must pick up four bags each of pine cones from the ground and they didn't finish it today, so they will have to keep going tomorrow. WHY can't these kids be kids?

Oh, what did they do to warrant this? They were seen together throwing A pine cone at A tree. Someone please tell me why these girls would think there was anything wrong with that? I still can't figure it out. Couldn't someone just tell them not to do it around other children since they could accidentally hit someone and be done with it?

Assigning them a public works punishment in front of everyone (public humiliation) and the fact that the task is so large it will take days..... (do you remember having something hanging over your head when you were a kid?) I really don't know what the woman running the program is thinking.


Years of being subjected to this "little stuff" and witnessing it almost daily has got to be building up something in these kids. I hope it's positive in the end (character, a good work ethic - I doubt it), but children tend to recognize injustice and take it very seriously, and I don't think these types of incidents are healthy.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 06:05 PM
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You know I grew up with peanut butter in the milk and actually warm milk was served to us.

And with corporal punishment, while I do not agree with teachers spanking children I have to say that everybody I knew either is doing well now as adults or either are doing bad.

Nothing different from now a days, occurs violence is more marked in this time and age in schools.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 01:41 AM
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Relentless:

That story is pathetic...nothing like diminishing the spirit of a child over something so small...


I wonder if that teacher has issues of her own... you know... feeling so powerless in her own life that the only way she medicates the situation is to demonstrate her power over poor innocent children...

If I were the parent of those girls, I'd insist that since the teacher was so concerned by their "behavior" that she stand there every micro-second doing nothing else but monitoring their progress, while I watched her monitoring them... oh, and did I mention that I would require her to count each pine cone those children disposed of... out loud... clearly... so I could hear it...


Like I said, pathetic...

[edit on 13-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 05:23 AM
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i think theyre just conditioning children to accept the police state and the drugs, so when they grow up theyre going to be nice and submissive SLAVES.

A brave new world



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:11 AM
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You posted:

"i think theyre just conditioning children to accept the police state and the drugs, so when they grow up theyre going to be nice and submissive SLAVES.

A brave new world "

Nothing brave or new or intelligent about your statement. While I am not in favor of drugs and dont agree with what they are doing in many "civilized nations" drugging children in schools, If you teach your children correct core values...yourself...you will not have such a heavy handed influence or effect by the school system. This takes time and commitment ie..Love of your children.
By the way ..I also happen to believe that television in huge doses and out of control is a drug and a means of control since television tends to do most of our thinking for us on a subliminal level. This does not seem to be a concept expressed by many of the posters here. Yet in "civilized nations" this is one of the main methods of control which so many unthinkingly posture their children to this Idol for hours per day. Obviously I dont agree with television as a babysitter.
On the subject of punnishment or corporal puninshment ..most people dont think of television/movies as punnishment. Yet the long term punnishment for people who buy into the psuedo reality of television/movies is the punnishment of being unable to cope with various aspects of the real world outside of the television or movie set. Why on this earth would we educate or subject our children into a belief in a psuedo reality and make them unable to cope with the reality we find outside our doors. Is this punnishment on them..while we claim we love them.???? Mind you now not every kid falls into this scenerio but I see a great number of them. They are out here spinning thier wheels ..going literally no where and using up alot of resources including thier children. Is this punnishment???? We dont think of it this way..but it is in the long term. Often with someone else making up the difference or being required socially to move over and let these people play thorough. Especially by guilt.
My point in this long dissertation is that we worry so much about something like corporal punishment. Yet we dont see how we long term punnish our children by other things...because we dont percieve immediate discomforture or inconvenience for them.
I am not in favor or corporal punnishment to the extreams of which some of you post and many of these posted here are pretty radical. But on the other hand I know by experience that the world outside of the home will punnish us far more severely than corporal punnishment by loving hands at home. Why would a loving parent ..demonstrate a scenerio at home different from what their children will experience out in the real world outside thier doors.
I know so many parents who have educated their children in the false reality of "Loving them" through a scenerio different from what is outside their doors...these children are often unable to make it on thier own outside thier parents homes..they must often come home time after time again for childish reasons ...often of over self indulgence of everything out there and often bringing their children back home with them. In otherwords they dont have the diciplines to self susatain themselves and their children..they are basically disfunctional. Who punnished them to this end result????
Children can be highly manipulative..to unawares adult. Being a child is not a free pass to play through ..either for the child or the adult backing their manipulation. This I suspect is part and parcel of the problems in public schools and it tends to snowball. I also suspect that many of the current crop of teachers/principals have been raised on variations of this formula. Some of them dont know any different either.
The social structure of which I know is authoritarian ..not optional. Most people will go for the optional..given their natural tendencys. Authoritarian is a two edged sword...If not used correctly it will come back and bite one very hard. Optional will often be used to be irresponsible in this upside down system today. It will also bite one very hard if not done wisely.

Thanks,
Orangetom





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