Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

Man, this thread is crazy, yo!

Dbrandt says that dead babies, retarded people, and vegetables go to Limbo or Purgatory (one or the other). Is that mentioned in the bible, or did they come up with that later? If they came up with it later, why was that left out of the final cut of the bible?

Nonsense. Assumption. Scuttlebutt. Speculation.

But I am only an evil non-christian and not to be trusted.

I could actually be Saaa haa tan.

In which case it would do us all well (including myself) that God still signs my paycheck.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Man, this thread is crazy, yo!

Dbrandt says that dead babies, retarded people, and vegetables go to Limbo or Purgatory (one or the other). Is that mentioned in the bible, or did they come up with that later? If they came up with it later, why was that left out of the final cut of the bible?

Where did I say this? That's right, I didn't. If you will pay attention to what I write I specifically say there is no such thing as limbo or purgatory.

One thing I specifically hate is lying. I have to deal with that on an almost daily basis with someone and I've grown to hate it.

Democrats, dog-thieves, and insurance salesmen. Everyone knows that.

The questions some people ask...

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by dbrandt
One thing I specifically hate is lying.

My personal definition of 'lying:'
knowing full well, and understanding, what is actual and then purposely portraying otherwise in either action or deed.

Lying is aware and intentional.

To 'miscompute' something someone says or that we read, by maybe not reading carefully, or perhaps it is just our minds, who play look vs. see mind-games on us all the time, even when just proofreading, and to then process thoughts based on a misunderstanding or lack of understanding or even a difference of understanding--that is not lying. It's not even lying to self. Lying to self is still intentional, and maybe not actually 'aware' but some part of my mind knows it needs to lie, so it is still done on purpose.

I have seen, in other forums, a person call another a liar because they didn't understand a bible verse to say the same thing the other did, and when they couldn't see the other's inability to see their own way--the insistence on both sides escalated to one calling the other a 'liar.'

That is appalling. I was shocked.

dbrandt, I'm not saying that stuff in an subsversive way about you--I've never seen that from you, at all. But I just wanted to point out, from the observer's POV, that perhaps it was a misunderstanding that you said those things rather than a lie accusing you of saying those things.

I hate lying, too, and haven't had to deal with a whole lot of it. If someone comes around me who can't open their mouth without lying, I remove myself from their presence; permanently, if possible. But sometimes that isn't possible, I know, so obviously it's not an option for you. There has got to be another way to deal with something like that. But what?

Fruit Loupes

Originally posted by queenannie38
I have seen, in other forums, a person call another a liar because they didn't understand a bible verse to say the same thing the other did, and when they couldn't see the other's inability to see their own way--the insistence on both sides escalated to one calling the other a 'liar.'

Many who claim to be Christians do the work of the Accuser.

Indeed, some of them are among his most devoted servants.

They may be known by the fruit they bear.

Originally posted by queenannie38
But sometimes that isn't possible, I know, so obviously it's not an option for you. There has got to be another way to deal with something like that. But what?

The one I have to deal with is an ex-wife and since there are kids involved it's almost impossible to not have to communicate. The only way to deal with it from what I've learned is to not talk to that other person unless it can't be avoided and even then try to avoid it.

Originally posted by Majic
Many who claim to be Christians do the work of the Accuser.

Indeed, some of them are among his most devoted servants.

They may be known by the fruit they bear.

Yes! That's so true--and when I pointed that out, in another situation of being accused, myself, of lying in that same way, I kind of pointed that out, in a somewhat oblique questioning way, but they didn't get it, at all.

That was crazy. Accusing me of lying about the bible they obviously didn't read all parts of--at least not about who the accuser is.

Fruit is a invaluable resource, IMHO.

Originally posted by dbrandt
The one I have to deal with is an ex-wife and since there are kids involved it's almost impossible to not have to communicate. The only way to deal with it from what I've learned is to not talk to that other person unless it can't be avoided and even then try to avoid it.

Yikes. Quite inescapable for the duration of your kid's minority. I'm sorry that you have to deal with that.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by truthseeka
Man, this thread is crazy, yo!

Dbrandt says that dead babies, retarded people, and vegetables go to Limbo or Purgatory (one or the other). Is that mentioned in the bible, or did they come up with that later? If they came up with it later, why was that left out of the final cut of the bible?

Where did I say this? That's right, I didn't. If you will pay attention to what I write I specifically say there is no such thing as limbo or purgatory.

One thing I specifically hate is lying. I have to deal with that on an almost daily basis with someone and I've grown to hate it.

Aight...

Maybe you didn't say it. I dunno, I saw it somewhere. I didn't lie on you, I thought it was you, like Queenannie said. But, my bad anyway.

So, what DOES happen to these people, then?

Originally posted by truthseeka
[So, what DOES happen to these people, then?

We are not told specifically but from my understanding. We have more info then the other situations. So babies go to God.

We aren't specifically told about these circumstances either. The mentally handicapped would have a harder time grasping the concept of salvation depending on the severity of their disability. People, who for whatever reason, are in a vegetative state or coma are of different ages.

So the best answer I can give is God knows each of the person's states and why they are in that state and the knowledge they have of Him. God doesn't make mistakes and He knows everything.

That's a vague answer. I'll give an example of what I'm talking about. Lets say someone has reached the age of 50 years old and has lived alot of life and has heard the gospel a couple of times and rejected it everytime. Then they get into a car accident and are in a vegetative state but are still alive, but mentally out of it or would appear to be. But are alive another 10, 15 years then die. I'm not not God and neither is anybody else. Only God is God and since He is, He is aware and knows more about that person and knows them and their future and what is really going on during this 10-15 year time period that we would never know. So the answer would be trust Him in that situation. Yes, that would be extremely hard and we want to know RIGHT NOW the answer to that person's fate. But trust maybe all we will get and be able to do and even told to do.

That's exactly what He does for us anyway. He asks those who want to be saved to trust, trust in Jesus' atoning sacrifice. That's hard sometimes also, and something not everyone does. But something that is doable because many do it.

Another thing to throw out, and when I throw this stuff out it's not because I am perfect, I'm far from it. But lets say their is a mentally handicapped person and they seem to acknowledge things that we talk to them about, but you really don't know if they completely understand, but maybe they do or at least comprehend more than we think. So you know this person like that. So because they are like this, does this mean we are off the hook, and don't have to share the Gospel with them. Probably not, they should be told also, just like anyone else, for the fact that they may/might understand it. There's a person with Down's syndrome in a class I was a helper in and she appeared to understand. She would acknowledge that she had accepted/loved Jesus, only because someone took the time to tell her about Him. If we assume it wouldn't matter beause she is disabled then that would be a shame. That would be no excuse for us at all in God's eyes either.

Move on some more. If you are not in one of these states or conditions, then the first thing you should do, even if you are the most devout atheist in the world, is to thank God that you are healthy. I saw a person in a wheelchair in Walmart and drool was running down their face, and there arms and legs were contorted into weird positions and they made noises instead of words and they couldn't control what little limb movements they had. But they had someone who cared about them with them. Whenever I see someone like that immediately my problems shrink to the size of a pebble, and I realize, I'm blessed that that isn't me or one of my kids.

So then the next thing if you want to move on from there. If you are concerned enough to wonder where a baby is or someone severly handicapped, and where they go when they die, then you should also have concern for where you will go when you die. And then get that question settled so that YOU can move on and help tell these others who are in worse situations then you about Christ, by word, deed and action.

Or that tribe over in the South American rain forest, who hasn't heard about Christ and they are your "good excuse" to doubt God or cause others too, maybe instead of doing that you should think of someway that you can help them to hear about Christ, because I don't think doing nothing for them, holds much weight with God either.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

What does that mean and what does it have to do with what you said, dbrandt?

Originally posted by queenannie38
Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

What does that mean and what does it have to do with what you said, dbrandt?

That means we can't earn our way to heaven.

And as far as the 2nd part of your question I have no idea what you are asking at the moment. So you will have to ask it different or more direct.

Originally posted by dbrandt
Another thing to throw out, and when I throw this stuff out it's not because I am perfect, I'm far from it. But lets say their is a mentally handicapped person and they seem to acknowledge things that we talk to them about, but you really don't know if they completely understand, but maybe they do or at least comprehend more than we think. So you know this person like that. So because they are like this, does this mean we are off the hook, and don't have to share the Gospel with them. Probably not, they should be told also, just like anyone else, for the fact that they may/might understand it. There's a person with Down's syndrome in a class I was a helper in and she appeared to understand. She would acknowledge that she had accepted/loved Jesus, only because someone took the time to tell her about Him. If we assume it wouldn't matter beause she is disabled then that would be a shame. That would be no excuse for us at all in God's eyes either.

Move on some more. If you are not in one of these states or conditions, then the first thing you should do, even if you are the most devout atheist in the world, is to thank God that you are healthy. I saw a person in a wheelchair in Walmart and drool was running down their face, and there arms and legs were contorted into weird positions and they made noises instead of words and they couldn't control what little limb movements they had. But they had someone who cared about them with them. Whenever I see someone like that immediately my problems shrink to the size of a pebble, and I realize, I'm blessed that that isn't me or one of my kids.

Specifically, regarding your words and thoughts above, how does that relate to what Paul is saying when he refers to Isaiah, who wrote: 'Our righteousness is as filthy rags.'

?? ??

Originally posted by queenannie38
Specifically, regarding your words and thoughts above, how does that relate to what Paul is saying when he refers to Isaiah, who wrote: 'Our righteousness is as filthy rags.'

??

??

I still have no idea what you are asking so I am not able to give an answer.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by queenannie38
Specifically, regarding your words and thoughts above, how does that relate to what Paul is saying when he refers to Isaiah, who wrote: 'Our righteousness is as filthy rags.'

??

??

I still have no idea what you are asking so I am not able to give an answer.

I obviously was a fool to think you would even care to think on it. Oh well, live and learn...

The brightest, shiniest crown of gold that sits upon a noble man's head is but a scrap of tin compared to God's.

OR:

As magnanimous (Def: 'noble in mind') as you are when observing those 'less fortunate' than you--in comparing that situation to one in which God is in your place, and you are in the place of the 'unfortunate'--your righteousness is just filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God.

IOW--to whatever degree you feel generous, kind, merciful, and accepting of others who cannot understand or act upon things at your level, amplify that by at least 10,000 or maybe more, to realize just how good and fair God is when looking upon us, in our limited human capacity.

If you don't think God would send a developmentally-challenged or mentally-impaired person to hell, then you can bet none of us are going there, either. Compared to God's vision and understanding, we are less than challenged and impaired. And yet, He loves us all, just the same.

Originally posted by queenannie38
I obviously was a fool to think you would even care to think on it. Oh well, live and learn...

The brightest, shiniest crown of gold that sits upon a noble man's head is but a scrap of tin compared to God's.

Instead of rambling on with stuff reword and ask the question simply. Even though you probably won't like my answer.

[edit on 27-12-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by queenannie38
If you don't think God would send a developmentally-challenged or mentally-impaired person to hell, then you can bet none of us are going there, either. Compared to God's vision and understanding, we are less than challenged and impaired. And yet, He loves us all, just the same.

God takes responsibilty for someone who is this way. Since He knits everyone together, He could have prevented them from being this way. He chose not to. ONLY HE knows why He does it this way sometimes. We probably won't have the answer to that question until we see Him face to face.

Sure He loves evreyone the same, you will get no argument from me on this, so stop saying this is not what I say.

The majority of people have no mental limitation as to hearing the Gospel and accepting or rejecting it. They have the ability to make the choice after thinking on it.

Revelation
20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


John tells us He saw the dead. He doesn't say He saw no one. He says He saw the DEAD. There was someone to see and they were dead. They rejected Christ. They were thrown into the Lake of Fire.


[edit on 27-12-2005 by dbrandt]

[edit on 27-12-2005 by dbrandt]

again...it says they were judged by there works not there faith......so to say only people who believe in jesus go to new isreal or heaven is wrong...it says so right there.....

Originally posted by plague
again...it says they were judged by there works not there faith......so to say only people who believe in jesus go to new isreal or heaven is wrong...it says so right there.....

Right. They rejected Jesus Christ. They did not want to transfer there sin to Him. They were judged by what they did. Works don't earn salvation. Our works are like filthy rags. So when God reminded them/they realized this point their works counted for nothing/zero/0.

So then they were left with their sins which they could have given over to Christ for forgiveness, and had them removed from them, but they chose not to. And the wages of sin is death/seperation from God for all eternity.

So they were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is consistent with the rest of the Bible. No new info here or a way out other than Jesus Christ.