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Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

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posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:49 AM
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Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?


From what i understand of it: Satan/devil and some lake that is on fire.




posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 11:32 AM
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Amazing, people wirthout knowledge speak the loudest.

Your list of those who will burn in Hell is warped and without scriptural backing; much of it.

For clarification, those who have heard the Good News and rejected it; those who reject Christ and His free gift of salvation.

Let us also clarify the reason Hell was created, while we are at it. Hell was not created for humans, but for Satan and the rest of the fallen angels. We earned a spot there, and broke the Creators heart in the process, by sinning right along with Satan and his followers.

Continue with the ignorant Christian-bashing and remember, Knowledge isn't necessary before typing thoughts.

[edit on 15-12-2005 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by truthseeka
2) People who die before accepting Christ


The Catholic Church does not believe that people who
die before knowing about Christ will go to hell.

As far as your 'question' about who will be in hell,
may I suggest that you ask your library to get a copy
of the book - 'who's who in hell'. Yep, it's a real book.
The authors made biographies on all known non-Christians
and those Christians who aren't behaving properly.

For example, Larry King is in the book with a biography
because he's an athiest.

From what I understand, a lot of people contacted the
publisher to complain that they didn't make the book.
A lot of folks WANTED to be in it, and didn't make it.

My guess - look for an updated version of Who's Who in Hell ... soon.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Ok TC, I pose a question.
Say my best friend doesn't believe in God. Nevertheless, he is a good person. Minds his parents, donates to charity, volunteers at homeless shelters and retirement homes on a regular basis. Your going to tell me that all of this is immediately overlooked by the fact that he doesn't accept Christ in his life?

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted your above statement.

--Kit.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Kitsunegari
Ok TC, I pose a question.
Say my best friend doesn't believe in God. Nevertheless, he is a good person. Minds his parents, donates to charity, volunteers at homeless shelters and retirement homes on a regular basis. Your going to tell me that all of this is immediately overlooked by the fact that he doesn't accept Christ in his life?

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted your above statement.

--Kit.


Kit~
I know I'm not TC, but I'm giving you an answer, anyway.

Are you saying your friend puts others before himself quite often and operates in life with an attitude of love and charity (giving in the spirit of love)?

I'd say that the Spirit already has him under the wing...

No problems there.

No one needs religion and rituals, and canned sayings to worship the Creator in Spirit and Truth. Which is basically serving one another in love.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
QueenAnnie, If you have been chosen by God to be granted wisdom into the Bible to know which parts are true and which are false and to finally understand Christianity in a way that no one has ever understood it before, you need to write books, get a television show, and expose this truth to the entire world, because 6 billion people don't get what you know, and we're all being far too arrogant in thinking we understand when, in fact, it is only you who really understands what's going on.

Oh yeah--that's the ticket...

All we need is one more Hal Lindsey or Tim Lafaye. No thanks. If that's what it takes to be heard, then I'd rather be just a peep in the teeming masses of humanity. Poor and without a book credit to my name.

You have put many words in my mouth that I did not say or even hint at.

I did not say 'I have been chosen by God and granted wisdom' or that I'm the only one 'who really understands what's going on.'

Many people understand. They're all around you on this forum. You basically discount them all.

I am different than most, because I don't mind bluntly speaking my mind, and I never say anything just because 'I believe it to be true.' Things make themselves known and anyone can receive wisdom from God. All you gotta do is what the bible says. Many do this without even reading it. No one has to go to church to find the truth, but it is a good place to find utter confusion and it is rife with hypocrisy.

I never said parts of the bible are 'false.' I said people are inaccurate and people err. A book cannot err. The Spirit of Truth is just that. Why should it bother you if I have it? You sure seem offended by what I said, but you asked the question, not I. I just gave an honest answer.


Side note: I may be a little cranky today; I'm rather ill

Sorry that you're not feeling well...



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by dbrandt
Read Luke 16:19-31 for the 2 compartments.


Are you saying that the bosom of Abraham where Lazarus was carried by angels is actually a chamber of hell!?? The great chasm is not a wall between two compartments of hell, its a chasm between heaven and hell.



Hell and hades are 2 different things. Those of the OT faith were removed when Christ was resurrected and then taken to heaven.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Hell and hades are 2 different things. Those of the OT faith were removed when Christ was resurrected and then taken to heaven.


Check your Hebrew, check your Greek. You don't even know what you are talking about.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Agents Of Irony


Originally posted by junglejake
First off, Majic, I do hope you see the irony in your own post in saying I'm being vain thinking I'm right, but the reality is you're right and therefore my religion should be insulted.

As I plainly said, the insults I consider well-deserved are not for a religion, but for vanity posing as “righteousness”. I consider the products of such deception to be false idols.

There is a difference, though it may not be obvious to some.

“Anyone who offends your ego is doing you a favor.” -- Me

Wrong Is Right

As for me claiming to be right, I recommend reading my posts more attentively. Here's what I said about that very subject:


Originally posted by Majic
Unlike those who insist that they have the power to determine truth by declaration, I accept the possibility that I can be wrong. In fact, I depend on it. Everything I say or post should be considered in light of this.

Ironic indeed that you should accuse me of the opposite, especially when I habitually make a point of saying this in so many different ways.

Perhaps you're complaining about someone else in this discussion who more closely fits your description?


The Question Of Shoe Size

Since there seems to be some confusion about it, here's what I actually said:


Originally posted by Majic
If the shoe fits, eat it. The “slams” listed above are only slams if they are based in truth, otherwise they are meaningless.

Far too many Christians hold up their vanity as “righteousness” and condemn others for failing to worship their false idols -- delusive icons fashioned from specious declarations of their own unfounded certainty.

Hence the ridicule, since it is well-deserved.

If this doesn't apply to you, then you have no need to worry about it -- except perhaps to warn others away from it.

If it does apply to you, awareness of this fact can help you grow.

I was referring to the “Christians” you were talking about, not you specifically, but if the shoe fits...

You may want to consider why you think that description applies to you.

I never said it did.

Mr. Wrong


Originally posted by junglejake
I especially liked this comment: "Our opinions are for us to choose, not for others to dictate. " Unless the other is you?

I know I can be wrong, say so almost to the point of absurdity and remind others to remember that.

Why, despite my extraordinary efforts to make this clear, is this concept so difficult to grasp?


Meanwhile, if you can be more specific about where I am dictating opinions rather than making false insinuations to that effect, it would help me to correct my errors in addition to helping advance a more honest discussion.

You can be assured I would be grateful for that!


Mistaking my expression of my own opinions as some sort of dictation of what the opinions of others should be is indeed ironic, but not in the way you are implying. As it turns out, that is precisely what I am opposed to, as I have made painstakingly clear here and elsewhere.

Why the impulse to misrepresent what I'm saying and argue against that, rather than consider what I am actually saying?

Answering that question honestly can lead to new understanding.

Refusing to do so leads further into darkness and deceit.


Imagine The Possibilities


Originally posted by junglejake
Second, What other possibilities are there? I stated that either Christianity is right or wrong. I also stated that there is either a God or there isn't. Three options. Christians are right and there is a God, Christians are wrong and there is a God, or Christians are wrong and there is no God. There's something else?

Yes. In particular, the possibility that Christians are partially right, that they have their own god (which they call “God”), but that their god is not supreme (and must therefore suffer the indignity of competing with other gods) and that there are also many other gods.

As best I can tell, that is the case.

But I could be wrong.


The Gospel According To...


Originally posted by junglejake
Third, I would hope that people reading my posts don't think of them as gospel truth, as well. I, by no means, am an authority in Biblical studies, nor am I the Pope speaking on behalf of God infallibly when I post on this website. I express my opinion and interpretations. Often I've been wrong or have changed my mind on issues due to debates here on ATS. As of yet, though, someone calling me names for doing something they do in the very post where they call me names hasn't convinced me I'm wrong yet. Maybe you'll be the exception to that rule, but I highly doubt it.

I can only be the exception to such a rule if it applies. How does it apply here?

Specifically, where have I called you names? Where is the hypocrisy in my case?

If you can point it out, I'll be grateful. If not, then I'm not the one guilty of hypocrisy.

Why the desperate need to erect strawmen and knock them down instead of discussing what I'm actually saying?

Why so much fear?


False Gods


Originally posted by junglejake
Fourth, Your interpretation of Exodus 20:3 may or may not be right, and I suspect, through the rest of scripture, that it is not right. Throughout scripture it talks of people making false idols and Gods out of things, from a golden calf to worshipping the law instead of God. God is also called the true God, which would indicate that others are false Gods. You could claim that Exodus 20:3 proves that television is, in fact, a God, but the rest of the Bible indicates that anything that you worship and focus on more that God would be the false god you're "having".

My interpretation of Exodus 20:3 most certainly could be wrong, as well as my interpretation of the many, many other references to other gods in the Bible.

If so, however, I'm still left with statements attributed to “God” which make no sense.

Perhaps the “god of this world” would understand such fallacy, but I don't have any use for it.

I expect honesty, consistency and compassion in a god. Any god unable to offer these things should take a number and get in line, because most gods don't.

In fact, such dishonest and inconsistent gods could accurately be considered “false gods”.

They invariably take offense to the truth, and -- like their servants -- become “wrathful” and abusive when confronted by it.

That is the way demons behave: stamping their feet with bluster and menace to inspire fear like an evil stepmother, rather than radiating love and compassion as a true parent does for a cherished child.

That's how I evaluate gods. Demonic gods radiate fear and demand obedience enforced through threat of suffering, while angelic gods radiate love and respect free will with nothing asked for in return.

Which best describes your god?

You may know a tree by the fruit it bears.

Speaking Of Me...


Originally posted by junglejake
Finally, if there's no God, and humanity is going to be doomed, what possible effect will your actions have on eternity? What is your goal in life, and why?

Every single spirit has an effect on the events of the universe in some measure or another. As for “eternity”, the definition tends to become murky with the passage of time.

What effect I will have on “eternity” is unknown to me, and I am comfortable with that.

My goal in life is to develop into the person I wish to become.

Why? Because that is all I will be able to take with me when I die -- with one important exception.

I will also be able to carry with me the love of others, because that is something death cannot destroy.

Therefore, I see these things as my most important goals, and all others secondary at best.

Turning The Crank


Originally posted by junglejake
Side note: I may be a little cranky today; I'm rather ill

Is it illness alone, or perhaps something more?

“Crankiness” can also herald the shaking off of that which binds us.

I recommend cultivating that.



posted on Dec, 15 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Hell and hades are 2 different things. Those of the OT faith were removed when Christ was resurrected and then taken to heaven.


That's quite a creative theology you've invented.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 03:24 AM
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At least I'm happy for the time being.

Thanks for digesting the data for me. It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I accepted it and it's time for me to digest my reward piece by peace.




posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by dbrandt
Hell and hades are 2 different things. Those of the OT faith were removed when Christ was resurrected and then taken to heaven.


That's quite a creative theology you've invented.


Hades was/is a temporary holding place, and hell is the permanent one.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Hades was/is a temporary holding place, and hell is the permanent one.

That's correct. When reading from
that time period that is exactly correct.
Modern people have mixed the two
together and made them mean the
same thing. People of 2,000 years
ago did not.

As far as everyone here saying it's okay ... if you love your
neighbor and don't love God then you will get to heaven ...
Christianity doesn't say that. The two 'greater commandments'
of Christianity from Christ -
- love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength.
- love your neighbor as yourself.

According to Christianity you can't hop into heaven on one
leg of this ... ya' gotta walk in with both.

As much as I'd like to tell you otherwise,
Christianity demands love of God. Sorry.
I don't know if I agree with it ... but that's the way it is.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
All we need is one more Hal Lindsey or Tim Lafaye.
No thanks.


Only God knows if they love Him with all their heart, mind,
soul and strength. Only God knows if they love their
neighbors as themselves.

However .... I'm with you ... considering that scripture also
says that you can judge a tree by it's fruits ... I want NO PART
of the wormy apples hanging off those two trees.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Hades was/is a temporary holding place, and hell is the permanent one.


...and the scriptural support for this is?



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as everyone here saying it's okay ... if you love your
neighbor and don't love God then you will get to heaven ...
Christianity doesn't say that. The two 'greater commandments'
of Christianity from Christ -
- love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength.
- love your neighbor as yourself.

According to Christianity you can't hop into heaven on one
leg of this ... ya' gotta walk in with both.

As much as I'd like to tell you otherwise,
Christianity demands love of God. Sorry.
I don't know if I agree with it ... but that's the way it is.



I understand what you are saying, FF, but you know, many become christians and seek God, for whatever reason, but they never get around to loving each other. Some never seek God, in so many words, but love their neighbors with true sincerity.

But John says:


1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


Anyone that truly loves others in a selfless manner knows God, even if they don't even call Him by name. Of course, as you said, no one can know another's true deepest motives, except God. But selfless love is recognized by God no matter what the person calls themselves who has this rare type of love for others.

It is no good to approach the altar with a gift for God if one neglects to demonstrate true charity toward his fellows. Matthew 5:23-24

To profess the name of Christ for the purpose of personal salvation in disregard for His teachings (which many do, no doubt) is not to love God but to love one's self. To love others is to love God.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by dbrandt
Hades was/is a temporary holding place, and hell is the permanent one.


...and the scriptural support for this is?


Now you know, Spam, that this is futile and redundant question, given the situtation.


Nevertheless, it was my first thought, but then I saw you had beat me to it.



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by dbrandt
Hades was/is a temporary holding place, and hell is the permanent one.


...and the scriptural support for this is?



This was faster and more thorough than I could have written
www.matthewmcgee.org...
www.scripturessay.com...
There are others you can google



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by spamandham
I'm quite certain you still "sin".


Yes I do, but I have been forgiven in Christ. In a growing relationship with the Holy Spirit living in me, sinning is less in frequency and intensity.


The key here is the word "but"

Since you have been forgiven you can commit any sin and still be admitted to the Christian Shangra Li .

This is the big lure of fundementalist Christianity...relief of guilt. See jesus took all their sins on his shoulders. He paid for their sins so they wouldn't have to.

How very convenient.


It's awesome that you have used the "power" of your god to live a good and moral life.

Now if all the people who claimed to be christians in the world would actually be "Christ like" this world would be a better place.

Best regards

D



posted on Dec, 16 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by Kitsunegari
Ok TC, I pose a question.
Say my best friend doesn't believe in God. Nevertheless, he is a good person. Minds his parents, donates to charity, volunteers at homeless shelters and retirement homes on a regular basis. Your going to tell me that all of this is immediately overlooked by the fact that he doesn't accept Christ in his life?

Forgive me if I've misinterpreted your above statement.

--Kit.



I'd say that the Spirit already has him under the wing...

No problems there.

No one needs religion and rituals, and canned sayings to worship the Creator in Spirit and Truth. Which is basically serving one another in love.


A fundamentalist Christian would say that Kit's friend is
going to hell.

I realize you aren't really the traditional Christian...and I'm cool with that.


Best wishes...Oh and BTW I don't believe any one will be in the "Christian" hell.


D



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