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If Jesus was brought back from the dead then where is he now?

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posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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This question answers itself as it is written from the assumption that Christ did rise from the dead, therefore the Bible is taken literally. But anywho, here are some proofs of Christ's Resurrection from the dead for those skeptics of that much.

-The Empty Tomb

-The failure to produce a body by the Officials of the day.

-The Tomb was both sealed and guarded.

-It was accepted by the locals where these events took place, as is evidenced by the growth of the early church there.

-The Faith and Martyrdom of the disciples, as nobody who is in their right mind would knowingly die for a lie.

-The Conversion of Paul, who was a stern persecutor of the Church.

-The Strauss Critique
-In the 18th century a skeptic, by the name of David Strauss, who was not a believer, disproved the theory of Christ surviving the crucifixion. He brought to light that even if Christ were to survive the crucifiction, rolls the stone away from his tomb, overpower two or more guards, goes to the disciples, and somehow in his weakened state convinces them of his Resusrrection, and inspires the faith that would lead to martyrdom.

-The Roman Soldier attested to Christ's death on the cross. Those guys were experts at death, as they were the professional soldiers.

-And finally, for those anatomy buffs, the water that flowed from his wounds was a sign that his Heart had stopped.

Hopefully you will all consider those things objectively.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by GrendelsBacon]




posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Good post GrendelsBacon.


Too many good posts get over looked on this board....

[edit on 14-12-2005 by Mizar]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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first things first, razor. you need to learn how to quote. what you have done for the second or third time on this particular thread alone is called plagiarism.



Attribution. You must attribute authorship of the work to "snafu7700; a member of AboveTopSecret.com";


if you click the little cc caption at the buttom of your posts you will learn more.




Originally posted by IXRAZORXI321

There is no debate. You have 0 proof to show there is a god or that jesus was resurrected Therefore everything written after that is irrelevant make believe propaganda and there is no reason to study it.


well, at least you are no longer denying your lack of knowledge on the subject. i really dont know where to start, considering that you believe there is no reason to study the material before you discuss it, but i will give it a try.

faith is a very personal thing. a great analogy used by alot of people with more knowledge than myself is the question:

you cant see the wind, but you can feel it, cant you?

it is the same with faith. i cant show you my faith with any evidence that you would consider concrete, but i can feel it. it is also the same with god's love...i cant show you, but i can feel it. i wish i could let you feel the overwhelming sense of peace i felt when i asked god into my heart, but unfortunately, i cannot. it is something you must experience for yourself to truelly understand. the only way for you to experience what i have felt is to ask god into your own heart, and let go of the hatred and anger. it has made a huge change in my life, and made me a better man than i was before.



Again I ask you for proof. I can give you mine.


based upon your wealth of knowledge about the bible and christian faith, i presume. there is no real proof, as i have stated above. there are the teachings of christ as written in the bible (which can be construed to be either true or false, depending upon who you listen to or read). you have to read them to decide for yourself. because that is what faith is...your personal interpretation of what the teachings of christ mean to you. if you choose not to believe, that is your right. but dont tell me that i am a fool or that i am full of it, as you have done in previous posts, simply because you disagree with me....especially when that disagreement is based on material that you have admitted isnt worth study, in your opinion (ie, you havent read).



If any god or jesus gave a flip about us they would not let children be harmed. Freewill is irrelevant.


free will is very relevant. he gave us the ability to choose between what is right and what is wrong. he wants us to prove to him that we are worthy of his kingdom by what we choose to do in this world. yes, innocents are hurt every day, but the ones who committed those crimes will pay eventually, and the innocent children will be with god in his eternal kingdom. sometimes it is very hard, especially as a christian, to understand why he lets these things happen. all i can tell you is that his plan is greater than you and i, and all things will be explained in the next life. i know that sounds hollow, but its the best i can do.



You can pray for 10 days strait but if a murder decides to kill your kids tonight then your god will let it happen. Explain to me why you think he will apparently help you with trivial daily things but not protect your kids from death?


because he has helped me. again, free will is very relevant. i chose, of my own free will (with gods guidance, IMHO), to pull myself up out of the poverty that i was born into, and make a new life for myself and my family. i could have become a criminal to get ahead (believe me, it was a much easier course than the one i have chosen), but instead i chose to join the military, get an education, and become a productive member of society. and i did it with gods help and influence. as far as my kids are concerned, i protect them to the best of my ability, and i will fight like a caged lion to protect them if i have to, but inevitably, it is not up to me. if some strange man breaks into my home and murders one of them, all i can do is pray for the criminals immortal soul, and rejoice in the fact that my child is in a better place. it would hurt, i would feel rage, and probably a thirst for vengence. i hope and pray that i am strong enough in my faith to allow the laws of this world and the justice of god to prevail. am i strong enough? i can not say without actually having been in that situation, but i hope so. it would not, however, shake my faith in the lord. nothing could do that.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by IXRAZORXI321
I could go on but I will give you time to research these things yourself mr snafu. Maybe then we can have an intelligent debate.


oh, that is just tooooo funny. now you are showing a complete lack of knowledge in history. hitler may have proclaimed to be a christian as justification for his evil deeds, but the deeds themselves prove otherwise. his vicious attacks on jews and others were actually meant to bring nationalism to the country and consolidate his power. to give the german people a banner that they could all crowd around and that would make them a strong unified people. unfortunately, it worked quite well.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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Thank you, I think that people on this board need to debate these things more often with experienced Apologists. I am not claiming to be one, I just did a little looking over notes I have taken over the years. I also see that one of the posters has stated they have read the Bible and that most of it was written by people who recieved it in visions and nonsense. This doesn't make sense. Expecially when talking about the New Testament as there is only one book of prophecy in all 27 books of it, and only a handful of documented visions. Something I have noticed that is rampant throughout the internet, but ATS specifically is that people will often claim to have read the Bible, and that they know the scripture, yet when it comes to the simplest details they are wrong. This isn't an attack on any one person, this actually is a problem I see on the board, one however, I feel is unaddressable.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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Snafu, thank you for bringing that to light about Hitler not actually being a Christian. Those arguments are quite baseless, it is the same as calling a Pigeon a Horse and assuming because you call it a Horse, that you can ride it.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by GrendelsBacon]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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I should never have even made any of these posts. My friends 6 month old child died in his sleep a few days ago.I have a 7 month old daughter. I've been blaming god every since. I tried to vent my anger and hate on this forum and that was wrong. I apologize.

Sorry for wasting your time.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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i figured you probably were feeding from some personal experience. i'm sorry for the loss, and i hope i was able to give you some words of comfort (which is what i was shooting for with the post before the last one). seriously....whether you believe or not, give the bible a read. if you still think its crap, i'm ok with that, but you might find some solace in it.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by snafu7700]



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 04:44 PM
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IXRA......
sorry for your loss and sorry if anything i said was something you found offensive or insensitive.........i hope that you feel better ........



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Sir whether you think anything of it or not, I will be praying for you and your friend in your time of loss. I apologize if I too sounded confrontational.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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That took a lot of guts to say, IXRAZORXI321. It's good to see folks posting with integrity, and you got a way above vote for that. Your friend, your daughter and yourself will be in my prayers. Thank you



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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What many people fail to realize is that Jesus Christ is GOD.
When that becomes apparent, then all scripture falls in place!
Until that is understood(and dont think that picking up a Bible will do this)Faith and Love is needed and understanding what you read.



"In the beginning was the Word...and the Word was God...all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made" (John 1:1-3).

Who is this WORD/LOGOS???

The WORD is God....who was present in the heavens and when God created the World.




"All things were created by Him" (the Son of God) "and for Him: and He is before all things, and by Him all things consist: And He is the head of the body, the Church: Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have pre-eminence. For it pleased the Father, that in Him should all fullness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of His Cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, whether they be things in earth or things in Heaven" (Col. 1:16-20).


all things were created by Him......Jesus Christ is called the FIRSTBORN AMONG THE DEAD......God took FLESH and became man ''Servant of man" to show us that He HUMBLED Himself to our LEVEL.
In order for us to recognise Him, we must firstly also HUMBLE ourselves as God has done.

Many people also fail to realise that God took the form of man because this was the way for us to be Born Again(not the religious followers that only became existent in the past 100 yrs or so)Born Again through Babtism...
In Babtism we DIE and we are Renewed by the waters of BABTISM....
Pre-figuration of a re-newel is also of the FLOOD......Water cleansed the earth that became so corrupt.....
quote///God said to Noah, "The end has come for all creatures, for the earth has been filled by them with evil works; and I shall obliterate them from the face of the earth. I shall bring upon the earth a flood of water to destroy all that is upon the earth" (Cf. Gen. 6:13-17

Look under 9 The Flood///
The Law of God

If Jesus was brought back from the dead then where is he now?

Jesus Christ has accomplished what He set out to do......there is man and his free will.
Jesus Christ said.....
'My kingdom is not of this world' (John 18, 36).



"He hath no form nor comeliness, and when we shall see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected of men, a Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief … and we esteemed Him not. Surely He hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth … He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who shall declare His generation?" (Isaiah 53:2-8).
With these concluding words the prophet was addressing the consciences of those who were to reject their Saviour, as if saying to them: You turn away in contempt from Jesus as He is mocked and beaten, but understand this, it is because of you sinners that He suffers so grievously. Contemplate His spiritual beauty, and maybe then you will be able to comprehend that He came to you from heaven.

ABOVE QUOTE
"For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one" (1 John 5:7)

quote///
In summing up what has been said, we must remember that be-lief in the divinity of Christ cannot be planted in men's hearts simply by scriptural citations or philosophical reasoning.
What is needed is a willful acceptance of this God-revealed truth.
It pleased God to uncover the hidden inclination of each person's heart by their attitude toward Christ; "Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25). So in this regard, till the end of the world, things will be the same as they were two thousand years ago: for many people Christ will remain "A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense … that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed" (1 Peter 2:8; Luke 2:35).
ON the Divinity OF CHRIST
Jesus Christ speaks///
"I have declared unto them Thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith Thou hast loved Me may be in them, and I in them" [Jn. 17: 26]. "As thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us" [v. 21].

''I in thee,''

Only God can make that claim........and for this He was Crucified!

IX
helen



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 07:13 PM
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Yeppo thats the key there. Thats one of the most important fact about christanity there helen. Christ was a man who possed humman nature and at the same time Devine nature. Entirely important. SUPREMELY IMPORTANT. now please... no one ask me to esplain the trinity. Helen I sugest you go read my post in the first page of this thread.



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by GrendelsBacon

This question answers itself as it is written from the assumption that Christ did rise from the dead, therefore the Bible is taken literally. But anywho, here are some proofs of Christ's Resurrection from the dead for those skeptics of that much.

-The Empty Tomb

-The failure to produce a body by the Officials of the day.

-The Tomb was both sealed and guarded.

-It was accepted by the locals where these events took place, as is evidenced by the growth of the early church there.

-The Faith and Martyrdom of the disciples, as nobody who is in their right mind would knowingly die for a lie.

-The Conversion of Paul, who was a stern persecutor of the Church.

-The Strauss Critique
-In the 18th century a skeptic, by the name of David Strauss, who was not a believer, disproved the theory of Christ surviving the crucifixion. He brought to light that even if Christ were to survive the crucifiction, rolls the stone away from his tomb, overpower two or more guards, goes to the disciples, and somehow in his weakened state convinces them of his Resusrrection, and inspires the faith that would lead to martyrdom.

-The Roman Soldier attested to Christ's death on the cross. Those guys were experts at death, as they were the professional soldiers.

-And finally, for those anatomy buffs, the water that flowed from his wounds was a sign that his Heart had stopped.

Hopefully you will all consider those things objectively.

[edit on 14-12-2005 by GrendelsBacon]


Oh, man! This is going to take forever to address point-by-point if I have to look up all the sources.

OK, I'm not going to do that right now - plenty have done it before me and done it so much better than I'll be able to. I'm just going to leave it like this:

- History is not on the side of most of your arguments. I don't mean specifically about Jesus but mostly about the Romans and Jews of this period of history.

- Jewish law, which was the law of almost all of the faithful followers of Jesus is not on your side here, either.

- Medical science and human physiology do not support most of these statements (which I assume are just straight out of the Gospels) - check into the research done by Christian doctors. To be fair, the medical research opinions among Christian medical doctors is about evenly divided on which parts are believable, possible, impossible, and just plain silly.

If you want to read some truly interesting stuff, start studying this story from as many sources as possible. Really, it should not challenge your Christian faith in any way but it probably will change your mind about how much historical accuracy you can find in the (current versions) Gospels.

Fascinating stuff!



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:18 PM
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Heres 2 theories

1. Jesus ate some bad food that put him in a coma and then a couple days later awakened from his comas and left the tomb
2. Jesus never really did anything but since zoracostationism(sp) played a key role in christanity the tale of jesus rising from the dead meant he was the savior.

But thats even if jesus exsisted which i dont think he did.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Detroit man declared dead by EMS is still alive


i doubt that guy from detroit was whipped, scorned, lashed, crucified, and then had a spear jabbed into his side. interesting find though.



posted on Dec, 27 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by PsychoSteve85
Heres 2 theories

1. Jesus ate some bad food that put him in a coma and then a couple days later awakened from his comas and left the tomb


You mean some bad food that both put him into a coma and grew him a new heart:

John 19:34: "Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water."


2. Jesus never really did anything but since zoracostationism(sp) played a key role in christanity the tale of jesus rising from the dead meant he was the savior.


Those are the only two options? Interesting...Wonder why we're having this discussion, and how it could have possibly gone on so long.


But thats even if jesus exsisted which i dont think he did.

Yeah...You know, those ancient historians liked to make things difficult for their people by giving credence to views, beliefs and people that never really existed but the religion says they do. Really makes you wonder how such an idiotic people as the Jews, who rather than saying this fictional Jesus character created by some rogue Jews didn't exist instead attacked him in their holy oral tradition, the Talmud and one of Israel's great historians, Josephus, went ahead and perpetuated the lie as well, in the same light as the Talmud, could possibly be controlling the world today (that sentence was riddled with sarcasm, btw)



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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These arguments can go on endlessly and in the end it will always be the same. Unbelievers will always doubt, accuse, and reject. Those of us who have experienced salvation speak from what we know. We know Jesus personally. We know he is alive. We have this witness in our heart and soul and we can't add anything to it. We can rewrite history and re-evaluate if Jesus had some bad beer before he was beaten beyond recongnition and tortured before having his body nailed to a cross for 9 hours. But what real use would it do. Those of us who are Christian sit at our computers in awe that people just can't ralize what is truth. But if you ask me, "did Jesus rise from the dead"? I would say yes and you'll laugh. If you ask "where is he now"? I'll tell you in Heaven building me a place to live.." and you'll laugh again. So what can we do to overcome this?

Since I came from being an atheist evolutionist monkey to man believer to that of knowing Christ as a Christian, I know Jesus personally. So let me ask all the unbelievers to do one thing. Forget about who did what and who's religion is the worst stuff. Ask God that if He is real and His Son is real that he would reveal this to you, that you may know it. Just ask.

Fromabove

[edit on 31-12-2005 by Fromabove]



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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i have asked god about his son .......i was anwered with which one you or all of your brothers and sisters throught the world......we are all gods children the only true way to salvation is through your self.....by being the best person possible by loving god with a pure heart....with pure love....
god is your father for better or worse.....when you learn to love him for everything hes given not everything you think youll get in the end..... you then you will also start to feel the love he has given you from day one.......



posted on Dec, 31 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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In a way, I wish we could all just be good and please God and be His children but we can't. Mankind rebelled against his Creator and the payment for it was his own suicide (death). God didn't kill man, God said, "Eat what you will but not from this tree..." But no, Adam and Eve wanted to "know" everything and so they rejected God for knowledge. They were killed by their own actions.

To redeem mankind from death, it took Jesus to die in our place for our rebellion. Not being stained with Adam,s sin Jesus offered Himself to be punished for us all. Now God will only redeem those who have rejected the evil of the world under Satanic rule and have accepted Christ under the obedience to God. The choice is so simple it's hard because many have reasoned out their own way to God but will never arrive where they wish to be, no matter how good they are. It is by Christ alone that one is right with God.

Fromabove



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