It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NEWS: Kansas City Student Suspended for Speaking Spanish in School

page: 3
7
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 06:08 PM
link   
im not saying that foregin(sp) is bad. im just saying that our children should not be forced to learn another language.

if thats the case we should make the schools teach the langeage of all countries who have people living legally here. what makes spainish so special? why not chinese or german for example? this isnt canada.

we should pass a law that makes american the official language. (again we speak american, not english) of course you would have to have a grandfather clause in there for people who were LEGALLY in the country before the law was passed.




posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 06:09 PM
link   
I'm posting this reply before reading the entire thread, so I apologize in advance if I repeat anyone.

Discipline case or not, apparently this school has failed to remember that the Good Ol' US of A is a melting pot for all kinds of different cultures. As a result, the US has no official language, religion, etc. Generally speaking, the majority of the US speaks English, and that's fine. That said, there is NO reason to penalize someone for speaking in another language (I won't even say foreign, because, as the US is a melting pot, no language is either native nor foreign). The teacher who sent the student to the principal, and the principal herself should BOTH be removed from their positions until such a time as they get a clue about what America really is about.



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 10:30 PM
link   
The ban on Spanish in school is just a cop-out for the schools failure to properly impose discipline in a fair manner. Rules against profanity, harassment, and class-distruption, etc can cover every serious problem posed by Spanish. A school is Gitmo- we need not fear that they're plotting a violent escape attempt in some kind of mysterious secret language that none of the authorities understand.

I attended a heavily hispanic highschool. There were racial tensions at times. I had a lot of problems with the Mexican gangs. It wasn't because they spoke Spanish. It was because I had five guys sitting behind me telling jokes about me and laughing their butts off in the middle of class- which was obvious to everyone even if they didn't speak Spanish (although one of the girls was nice enough to tell me after class what the clowns had been saying).

The teachers couldn't care less. They sit up their asleep at the wheel, putting in their time at our public babysitting system while the next generation of McDonald's finest (by virtue of thei IQ, not their race) was trying to entertain itself at my expense.

If the public schools were functioning properly in terms of order and educational performance it wouldn't matter what language was being spoken.

A no Spanish rule attempts to save the teachers from paying attention and enforcing discipline by hoping that a few trouble makers within the hispanic student body will shy away from making trouble in English.

Short of the schools forcing accepting some responsibility for the orderly run of classes,I think I have a few ideas.

1.(seriously) Stop taking attendance and tell the kids that they are free to come or not come as they please, but that they will be expelled and become inelligible for any form of federal or state financial assistance if they don't pass.

2.(I know it wont happen) Give students the right to challenge eachother to an olympic-rules boxing match at lunch if they have a problem. I know that sounds really stupid but my grandfather used to assure me that he's seen it in action and it worked. How is somebody supposed to make fun of you after you drag him into the gym for a fair fight and knock the wind out of him a couple of times?

3.(I'm kidding) Mandatory concealed weapons for all students.



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 02:43 AM
link   
I posted earlier in this thread. So this is my second.

Not knowing ANY of the facts aside that the kid got into trouble and now isn't in so much trouble...

You've got kids that can speak Hebrew, Arabic, Russian, English, Spanish, French, German, and on and on. In America the language is supposed to be English. You can't have 20 different anguages being spoken and expect teachers to be able to maintain order. Sixth graders and younger that are saying things to their teachers that I can't write on this website IN ALL LANGUAGES.

A problem these days is that many recent immigrants don't bother to learn English while they send their children to school. Everyone expects the teachers to do it all. One way is by making sure that their students can speak English. Spanish is taught in every public school I've ever been involved with. That isn't the problem. The problem is that my tax dollars are supposed to be used to prepare students for the world and not give them a comfy little place to do whatever they want and that goes for ALL STUDENTS. When they flunk out and then enter alternative GED programs that cost upwards of 30,000$ per 15 students and over half of them stop going or get sent to prison, well I guess we can all slap ourselves on the politicaly correct backs and say "well, at least we let them do what they wanted for a while."

There was a time (before mine) when partents backed up teachers and let them do their jobs as long as they did them. Now the teachers are damned either way: If they can say nothing (they already can't discipline due to insane legal issues) and let the kids run amok or they can try to wrestle control and be accused of being racist for not letting students speak whatever language they want whenever they want.

Kids have to raise their hands to go to the bathroom. They should at least have the sense to follow other rules as well.



posted on Dec, 10 2005 @ 04:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by 2nd Hand ThoughtsYou've got kids that can speak Hebrew, Arabic, Russian, English, Spanish, French, German, and on and on. In America the language is supposed to be English.


For official purposes, yes. Nuances in meaning between languages can create legal difficulties, etc, so for the sake of uniformity we handle official matters in English here in America. That does not mean that there is any problem whatsoever with speaking other languages, even to the exclusion of English, in and of itself.

The harm of such an action is entirely upon the speaker unless others voluntarily make it their own problem, for instance by hiring someone who cannot communicate sufficiently with customers, etc.

The problem is not relevant in schools for the most part because so long as our laws require schools to teach ESL students and we send those students to schools where English is primarily spoken, it becomes to responsibility of the school to teach the student English. An important part of education is of course discussion and understanding, and as someone is learning English they will most certainly need explanations in their native tongue if they are so fortunate as to have a classmate or teacher who can speak the language fluently.


You can't have 20 different anguages being spoken and expect teachers to be able to maintain order.


I disagree. Harassment is clearly harassment in any language, class disruption is class disruption even if it is done in morse code or non-sense phrases, and any offense which is not clearly identifiable as an offense without translation wasn't hurting anyone and therefore shouldn't be against the rules.


Sixth graders and younger that are saying things to their teachers that I can't write on this website IN ALL LANGUAGES.


Perfect example of my last point. If it doesn't have negative effects the there is no problem with it. If it does have negative effects then it can be taken care of through rules against class disruption and disrespect without even being understood.


A problem these days is that many recent immigrants don't bother to learn English while they send their children to school. Everyone expects the teachers to do it all.


1. The student in question here spoke english very well (with the exception of using the word "like" as if it were a comma, which many American-born students also do).

2. If it is necessary for the parents to learn English so as to be able to teach the students English at home, then this requirement must be expressed through law or school policy. You use the violation of a rule that was never made as support for the idea of imposing a new rule.

Far be it from me to sound like some kind of bleeding-heart. I believe in individual responsibility, I believe students should have to sink or swim and that we shouldn't keep dumping money into the education of students who don't want to use it. I also don't believe that we should be imposing unnecessary rules however. With individual responsibility comes individual liberty. Spanish isn't the problem, so leave the liberty of speaking Spanish alone.



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Vagabond:

Two things first. I agree to disagree. Second, I am writing this from work in an inner city Chicago school where they have frequent "lock downs" depending on what is going on outside in the street.

To respond to your last post:

1. Students need explanations in their native tongues. I never said they didn't. My understanding isn't that Spanish or any other language is forbidden from from appropriate classes and when done for communication purposes within the understood school-wide rules and special rules for individuals..

2. Harrassment is harrassment even if a teacher doesn't understand. PERHAPS this kid was harrassing other STUDENTS. Is it up to a teacher to figure out if one Russian kid yelling down the hall at another Russian kid is asking him to hang out after school or that he's going to kill him at the bus stop?

Also, if other students understand that a kid is saying gross things about a teacher, then that is definitely undermining the teacher's authority whether the teacher understands everything or not.

3. This is the one where I wonder if you read my post. My point is that some parents DO NOT speak English in the home. THEREFORE, it is important that ESL students PRACTICE English OUTSIDE of the home. I don't get why you are talking about laws???

Finally, I never singled out one language as a "problem". But when it becomes an issue of self-imposed segregation in a public institution with rules (including other things not the same in the "outside" world like bathroom stalls without doors, raising your hand to go to the bathroom, parental permission slips, etc.) THAT is the problem. Diversity is not the problem, undermining a teacher's required authority is unacceptable.

We don't even know what this particular student was doing but I hope that it was something sufficient enough to warrant his punishment. IF HE WAS TOLD "No more Spanish" in certain situations, then that is a RULE.

As you pointed out, no one has to go to public school. However, when these students who don't want to be there leave, guess who most often gets the bill for the lives they lead? Poverty = public assistance and prison = tens of thousands of dollars a year. Not everyone turns to crime, but many of these students do and crimes have victims. Encouraging an education for a student is the kindest thing you can do for them.

We want the best for these young people.

Again, situations deem whether or not slang, morse-code as you mentioned, or Spanish, is appropriate. That is life. A rule was made and he broke it. Without knowing the details, who knows what is going on. But like I said, I'm writing this in an inner-city school with a dress code, etc. and violence outside. Schools need control within.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 11:57 PM
link   

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Two things first. I agree to disagree.


I can appreciate that.
Rather than going into exhaustive detail and cyclic responses I'd just like to sum up with a couple of points and we can leave our difference in opinion as it is.

I think we can agree that words are not harmful in and of themselves- they're implications and real-world effects are. Threatening speech does not occur in a vaccuum. It is accompanied by body language, tone, and often physical confrontation, all of which can easily be spotted and addressed. Even to whisper to a friend in Swahili that I think the geometry teacher looks like he's got Dick Cheney's butt for a chin is not a problem unless of course it leads to defiance or noncompliance, which can be addressed and punished in their own right.

It is my humble opinion that the freedom of thought, expression, and even action is absolute except where it directly infringes upon the basic rights of others. John Stuart Mill is my intellectual hero in that respect- [U]On Liberty sits to the right of the bible on my shelf. That is where I'm coming from and why I believe that words in and of themselves should not be punished.

You of course however do know the lay of the land- you say you work there and I have no reason to doubt that you do and that you have learned a great deal about the situation there, so far be it from me to get heavy-handed in my disagreement, although i do disagree as a matter of principle (which is a little ironic for me, since my views tend to smell utilitarian, but in this case...)

Also, to clarify, the relevance of law to my post is quite simply that we are dealing with the conduct of our educational system and our naturalization process, both of which are matters under the legislative control of the state and federal governments, respectively.

If something is necessary to the successful conduct of our education system or the process by which we naturalize immigrants, we have to institute the corrective actions from the top, not simply within the schools or districts, where it will seem arbitrary and not be widespread enough to bring about a pervasive change in the lives of immigrants.

If we are to institute an emersion type ESL program, it has to be a concerted effort, not simply a point of argument in defense of a rule which apparently hasn't been working so far.

Not to hammer the point- just trying to clarify since you felt that the relevance of my initial statement was not clear.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 12:20 AM
link   
well it might be about hiding something by discussing it in spanish, if the teachers dont understand spanish they cant tell what they might be saying or discussing.



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 03:56 PM
link   
- the incident with Mr. Rubio was wrong... it sent a very negative message, and I am glad they took actions to correct this. Hopefully there are additional measure's being taken with the teachers who were offended by Rubio's spanish.... I wouldn't agree with termination though... maybe training.

It should never be an Issue for students to speak their native language in public schools... unless they are, as someone said, being disruptive or undermining authority.. in which case - it doesn't matter what language they speak.. they should be disciplined.
In school, children should always be encouraged to take pride in their cultural identities- assimilation is not always the right way to go.... and I believe that it can lend to ignorance about other ethnicities and cultures, whereas being allowed to be open about your heritage will create an opportunity for others to learn.

America should reflect the diversity of it's people - our language may be English... but our people represent much more. When making arguments about the neccessity for children to learn a second language.. especially spanish - one should remember that of all cultural groups... Hispanics represent the largest, fastest growing minority group... eventually it may not just be a matter of wanting to learn spanish.. but needing to learn it... this issue goes beyond school requirements... it could quite possibly mean success or failure in the business world, esp. since "hispanics are out performing the general population by nearly every economic growth measurement"

I think our childrens children will see an America where it is common to speak at least two languages fluently... I think that's great.

[edit on 13-12-2005 by NiqueNique]




top topics



 
7
<< 1  2   >>

log in

join