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Schrodinger's cat and God

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posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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Has anyone thought of Schrodinger's cat and its relation to the creation of universe?

I think it might prove the existence of God as without an observer the universe would exist/wouldn't exist at the same time and for events to occur in the universe an observer would have to be present. This might show that there existed a living creature/something that was able to observe before the big bang.

What do you guys think, am I nuts?




posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Sorry for my lack of knownledge to this particular matter but what is Schrodinger's cat ?

I know its a program with the same sentence



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 02:02 PM
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Quantum God huh?

Could be, but Iv'e always thought the big bang was God in an creative mode, manifesting itself in material form. The creator/creation watching itself change from invisable/spiritual to corporal.

This is probably a gross over simplification, of a process that much to esoteric for talking monkeys to wrap their minds around. Not to mention blasphemous to our brothers that prefer the "big bearded guy in the sky".

[edit on 9-12-2005 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Very interesting topic.


I'll try and contribute later when i have more time.


Originally posted by gamerman
Sorry for my lack of knownledge to this particular matter but what is Schrodinger's cat ?

I know its a program with the same sentence



This article from: scienceagogo.com might be helpfull in sparking the discussion.


www.scienceagogo.com...

The experiment, described in Nature, is a clear demonstration of the quantum concept of entanglement, which occurs when the quantum properties of two or more particles are correlated, and which Albert Einstein called "spooky action at a distance."

Existing in two states at once is a peculiar property of quantum physics known as superposition. The ions in this experiment were placed in the most extreme superposition of spin states possible with six ions. All six nuclei are spinning in one direction and the opposite direction simultaneously, in what physicists call Schrödinger cat states. The name was coined 80 years ago by German physicist Erwin Schrödinger who described an extreme theoretical case of being in two states simultaneously, namely a cat that is both dead and alive at the same time.

But cats are never observed in such states in the macroscopic "real world," so physicists believe that there is a boundary where the strange properties of quantum mechanics - the rule book for Nature's smallest particles - give way to the physical laws that govern our everyday experience. While the NIST experiment is a long way short of full entanglement of a real cat's roughly 1026 atoms, it extends the domain where Schrödinger cat states can exist to at least six atoms.

To create their six-atom cat state, the NIST researchers used an electromagnetic trap to hold the ions a few micrometers apart while an ultraviolet laser cooled the ions to near absolute zero. The cat states last about 50 microseconds and the researchers say they have run the experiment successfully tens of thousands of times, including numerous runs that entangled four and five ions.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
(emphasis Rren)



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Good find, Ren.

When I first made my original post I was talking about superposition. Maybe those superposition effects only occur on a large scale when there is no observer present.

Also, if a cat can be alive and dead at the same time why can't a universe be in existence and not in existence at the same time. The universe before the Big bang probably existed as a dense energy rich soup of particles zipping in and out of existence.

Maybe an observer (a kind of God) saw this and this destabalised the singularity (for want of a better name) and this destablisation was the Big Bang (the Big Bang might have occurred due to a zero point energy explosion (maybe some of those particles that came into existence were very unstable and highly energetic). There probably quite a few of these particles.

Sorry for all the maybes but we can't ever know for sure.

BTW, there is no reason why science and God cannot coexist. He may not be the big fella in the clouds but there is a God for sure.

Good post whaaa, that's really got me thinking. That would explain why God cannot influence us much because we are more like bacteria or viruses inside his unbelievably immense body. That might also explain why we have certain physical constants, it's sort of like our bodies having to have a temperature between a certain range or we will die. Maybe the universe/God would be destroyed/die if certain physical constants were changed, like changing the temperature too much in a human body.



[edit on 9-12-2005 by fatcat2]



posted on Dec, 9 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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It's important to note that the Schrodenger's cat thought experiment relied heavily on Copenhagen's model of the universe. That is to say, if something isn't and can't be measured, it doesn't exist. So, essentially, if you're sleeping alone and no one is observing you, you, according to Copenhagen’s model, don't exist. That's what the conundrum with the cat was. The radioactive atom may or may not have killed the cat. There is no way to measure it, so Copenhagen's model states that the cat is in both states. Is it true? Ask the cat.

Einstein was a strong opponent to Copenhagen's model, believing there to be something unmeasured as of yet impacting the spin of a particle. This is where Einstein's famous statement, "God doesn't play dice" came from. The full context of the quote was that Einstein was saying he disagreed with Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle because, while it's difficult to get a look at God's cards, He does not play dice. Having a universe run on probability instead of action/reaction would be playing dice, not cards.

It's interesting to note, too, that according to Copenhagen's model, there is a force that travels faster than the speed of light. In an experiment to prove Hesienberg's uncertainty principle, a particle with no spin was hit in such a way to cause two particles to fly off of it. Since the original particle had no spin, the total spin of the two particles coming off of it must equal zero, as well. Meaning, each particle has opposite spin. According to Copenhagen, the spin of one particle doesn't exist until the other particle's spin is measured. As soon as the one particle's spin is established as, say, up spin, the other particle, no matter how far away in our 4 dimensions, instantly obtains the opposite spin.

Now, how this relates to God's existence beyond the sheer beauty of particle physics and quantum mechanics, I don't know...



posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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You may wish to note that Albert Einstein did make a number of mistakes during his lifetime, in particular he firmly believed black holes didn't exist.

Even more relavent to this discussion I refer you to this article and in particular the section on Contra quantum mechanics, it shows that Einstein was wrong and the Copenhagem interpretation of the universe is far more likely to be true.

(www.physicstoday.org...)

This relates to God's existence because for the universe to exist there must be an observer because without an observer the universe would zip in and out of existence (superposition). That observer cannot be us because without the existence of the universe we would not exist. It could be possible that the observer was from another universe but I couldn't honestly tell you.

Does that answer your questions?



posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 01:24 AM
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THE WORLD IS GETTING MORE UNLIKELY!
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS ONE..... I have noticed over the past 10 years or so,how the world seems to be taking the most unlikely route forward in time and how by now we must be on very thin ice as far as reality goes. This is why we are able to see things like psychic energy effecting experiments, (what the bleep),because things really are becoming magical.I think we are many thousands or millions of parallel universes removed from say 1995. I have half remembered memories of historical facts being once different, to what they are now,in particular ronald reagan's assasination. If this reality keeps choosing the most unlikely path soon we see flying pigs ! btw god and I were the observers. all the best steve.



posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 01:52 AM
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You don't need Schrodinger's cat theory to prove God's existence. For the Big bang to initialise someone or something had to kick it off. If it were the result of two Parallel Universes colliding someone had to kick those Universes off. No matter how far back you want to take it, God must have set the ball rolling to change the status of existence of all energy from nothing to something.




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