Full Video: Explosions Before Both WTC Collapses and before WTC7 Collapse - You Will Believe, page 32

Originally posted by Code_Burger
There is no evidence to substantiate damage anywhere near that scale. I've seen pictures of damage, but not a hole that size.

I take that back. I looked at the pictures again, and the Gash was a bit bigger than I thought.



I stand by the rest of my post though, that damage would not have caused the building to collapse straight down, perfectly. Niether would the fires. It's just not possible. NIST are saying there was another huge gash in the center, and some structural damage to some primary columns there, but they haven't provided any evidence for their claims.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Show me a picture of the core standing after the collapse was complete.

Here's a video clip of that (WTC1). Another version of the still photo.

From another view:


And another video clip.

It can also be seen in the video taken from Hoboken. I was going to post a GIF composed of frames from that video but it was over 2 MB. So I guess if you want to see that you have to watch 9/11 Eyewitness.

And no matter what that is, Howard, it is most obviously NOT supporting the weight of ANY floors, and yet it still falls straight down upon itself just like a conventional demo, and totally unlike any natural collapse of anything so tall and slender that happens to be made of anything other than legos or jinga blocks. But I'm sure you won't disappoint with some kind of bs that sounds half plausible until someone actually thinks about it.

That's what happened.

And what's amazing about this, besides that you're (very hypocritically) not a structural engineer, and that not even NIST could come up with this genius conclusion that you've provided us with, is that you aren't sharing this with the rest of the world. Why don't you submit this for peer review somewhere, Howie?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
The exterior columns were stainless steel? What are you smoking?

Please spend some time researching this subject before you spam the board again with this nonsense.

Howard: the exterior as this link points out was primarily high grade steel with stainless steel used as trim especially at ground level.

Frankly your arrogance and attitude are spam.

WTC construction

"In order to make each tower capable of withstanding this wind load, the architects selected a lightweight “perimeter tube” design consisting of 244 exterior columns of 36 cm square steel box section on 100 cm centers (see Figure 3). This permitted windows more than one-half meter wide. Inside this outer tube there was a 27 m × 40 m core, which was designed to support the weight of the tower. It also housed the elevators, the stairwells, and the mechanical risers and utilities. Web joists 80 cm tall connected the core to the perimeter at each story. Concrete slabs were poured over these joists to form the floors. In essence, the building is an egg-crate construction that is about 95 percent air, explaining why the rubble after the collapse was only a few stories high."

"The egg-crate construction made a redundant structure (i.e., if one or two columns were lost, the loads would shift into adjacent columns and the building would remain standing). Prior to the World Trade Center with its lightweight perimeter tube design, most tall buildings contained huge columns on 5 m centers and contained massive amounts of masonry carrying some of the structural load. The WTC was primarily a lightweight steel structure; however, its 244 perimeter columns made it “one of the most redundant and one of the most resilient” skyscrapers.1"

Asbestos in WTC?

"The Trade Tower design – the one referred to as able to resist the crash of a Boeing 707 – specified the use of asbestos insulation on the supporting columns," said chemistry professor Art Robinson, writing in the September edition of Access to Energy, a monthly science and technology newsletter.

"This was used on all columns up to the 64th floors. Then, however, in 1971 when the Trade Center Towers were still under construction, New York City banned this use of asbestos," Robinson, who is also a founder of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, said.

Heat, fire weakens towers' columns

Robinson said the Twin Towers were designed to withstand a raging four-hour fire before its steel beam infrastructure lost enough of its strength and collapsed. In the intervening time frame, experts believed that tower visitors and workers below the fire level would have ample opportunity to escape, while those trapped in floors above the fire would be plucked from the roof by helicopter.

However, Tower One collapsed one hour and 40 minutes after it was struck by the first airliner; Tower Two collapsed after 56 minutes of fire.

"Had the towers stood for four hours, an estimated 5,000 people would still be alive, and the buildings would probably still be proudly standing – with large gashes in their upper floors," Robinson said.

In making his case, Robinson quoted the designer of the asbestos steel-beam coating procedure banned in New York City during the construction of the towers.

The inventor, Herbert Levine, often said during the final phases of WTC construction in the 1970s: "If a fire breaks out above the 64th floor, that building will fall down."

Robinson pointed out that skyscrapers like the Empire State Building have their steel columns insulated with concrete – which is expensive and difficult to use.

But, "in the late 1940s, Herbert Levine invented a spray fireproofing composed of asbestos and mineral wool. This invention was instrumental in allowing the construction of large steel-framed buildings," he said.

Levine's company did not get the contract to insulate the steel beams of the Twin Towers, but he had confidence in the company that did win the contract until New York banned asbestos and forced the winning contractor to use a "jury-rigged substitute insulation."

Still, other experts believe the collapse of the buildings may have been inevitable, given the circumstances.

"The impact of aircraft of more than 100 tons, at a velocity of several hundred miles per hour, with a fire load of thousands of gallons of kerosene are not things we contemplate for our clients on a day-to-day basis," said John A. Hill, president of the UK-based Institution of Structural Engineers. He believes that a willful terrorist can always find a way to demolish any structure.

Others say the heat of the fires generated by the planes took its toll on the steel beams supporting the towers.

"It was the fire that killed the buildings – nothing on earth could survive those temperatures with that amount of fuel burning," said Chris Wise, another British structural engineer. "The columns would have melted, the floors would have melted, and eventually they would have collapsed one on top of each other."

Robinson says the jet fuel-laden fires did not generate an unusual amount of heat, instead only generating the amount of heat such fires would normally produce. The difference, he insists, was that the towers "were not properly insulated, causing them to become weak by the heat of a sustained fire."

"It's notable that Mr. Levine didn't make his comments after the attacks, but instead made them 30 years ago," Robinson told WND. "And he was the world's expert on insulating steel columns."

Robinson also said he was "certain" that had the columns been insulated with asbestos, the towers would have remained standing "long enough" for many more people to have escaped.

"Whether that means both buildings would currently still be standing, that's a question," he said. "But we wouldn't be lookin

bsbray11 - You make good arguments You have my support.




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[edit on 5/6/2006 by Masisoar]

telling testimony and text in the professor jones canon

ie.

"CANON 5.

g. Engineers shall not maliciously or falsely, directly or indirectly, injure the professional reputation, prospects, practice or employment of another engineer or indiscriminately criticize another's work."

[edit on 6-5-2006 by billybob]

Originally posted by billybob
telling testimony and text in the professor jones canon

Some very interesting stuff in there.

www.911blogger.com...
Email to Prof Jones from a structural engineer in Texas:
I am surprised how few of my colleagues have expressed public disbelief at the official line which lurches from theory to theory as the shortcomings of each became apparent. I guess they have run out of ideas on Building 7.

You nailed the biggest problem when you focused on the symmetry of collapse in comparison to the asymmetry of the damage... Steel high rises are designed (and overdesigned) as cantilever beams on end. There is so much redundant steel in these buildings because they have to resist hurricane force winds. Was there a hurricane in New York on Sept 11?

If steel framed structures designed by world class engineers (who are still being commissioned to design high rises elsewhere in the world) can collapse with so little provocation, I should send my diploma back and take up fortune telling.

From another structural engineer:

• “A couple of months back I examined [Jones] claims in detail. Initially I was a bit incredulous… so I downloaded all the official reports basically expecting to find holes in the good prof's hypothesis.

• I'm a professional civil engineer with a lot of experience in the construction of major structures and I was just astounded at what I found. In my COO days if my staff had put up reports like that relating to a disaster on my patch, there is no way they would have been accepted and I would have been asking some very tough questions: The [official] reports are not at all convincing.

• That they are not is a serious worry.

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