Full Video: Explosions Before Both WTC Collapses and before WTC7 Collapse - You Will Believe

I've read through what everyone has said and I must say it's all very interesting.

We live our lives the way we do and for so long. We're born into this system. We're brought up a certain way. Told to think a certain way and told what to think in some cases. We're never taught to question the things we're brought up to believe. We're taught this is the way it is and always will be. We realize the world is an unfair place and we accept it. And after a few years of living we think we know everything there is to know about this world.

We go on living for so long and when something comes along that doesn't sit it affects us.

Sometimes we are just too afraid to ask certain questions. And sometimes we are not prepared for the actual truth. I've talked with alot of people about the subject over the years now and even those who believe it was 19 terrorists who hate freedom will agree that there are things about this world we will never know.

Infact I have been surprised by the amount of people out there who accept that there are things that go on behind the scenes. After all according to Napoleon history is a group of events decided by men.

It was really hard for me at first too. I was the biggest bush buddy you ever saw once upon a time.

But the speed of which Demolition Co. disposed of the evidence without investigators given the chance to examine and test for explosives really got me thinking in the other direction.

And the speed at which the authorities moved and said "well it's clear what happened here." without even really giving the chance for a real investigation.

Demolition Co. also disposed of the OKC material with some speed aswell.

The funny thing about OKC was that the local Police moved in and found, FOUND UNEXPLODED ORDANCE! This was even mentioned on the media. I even remember the media making a big deal about in when it happened.

However a short time later when the FBI moved in all of this information disappeared. I don't deny that McVeigh parked a Ryder truck with a Fert bomb inside of it but for him to plant 2-3 bombs inside the building is just impossible. It's not impossible for other people however.

I completely understand why some people hold on to the 9/11 "official story" with such tightness. They have simply never known anything else. This is how it is and this is how it will always be. Deep down everyone who still holds on to the story is afraid. They are not prepared to go against everything they have been brought up to believe at this point in time.

Truth is a funny process. Some people know the truth. And some people think they know the truth. But what really makes the big difference is how it affects us.

For example.

Some people have an easier time accepting the alternative 9/11 story simply because they have nothing to lose.

However someone who has worked hard to be successful, has a home, a family, two cars in the garage will have a harder time believing in the New World Order theories because they have everything to lose.

And that is the centre of this whole argument.

Ask yourself this question. Do I stand to lose?

# happens. Since the great depression and even before we have seen many things happen in our lives. The world has gone through some really bad times and in the last few years we have seen some really good times.

And again. # happens. The Free World has had it so good that sooner or later the # will hit the fan.

We are dealing with inevitability here. A nuclear terrorist attack in New York is inevitable. Another stock market crash is inevitable. Another world war is inevitable.

History Repeats. There is no denying it. It simply comes down to the ways of man. It is in our nature to hate and kill. It is in our nature to decieve and be decieved.

Just think back to highschool. It might be harder for others since the length of time but just try to remember. Try to remember all those different clics of people. Different groups who insult eachother. Fight eachother.

That is mankind in a nutshell. And Since WWII the ways of man have not changed. Therefore the world will continue to go through these events until we come together and say "Hey. We can't keep doing this."

We cannot keep doing this. Mother Earth is dying. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution we have done a good job of killing this planet. And now I see that she is on the brink.

I don't know about you but with all the Earth changes that have gone on since the beginning of 2005 I have a new appreciation of mother nature.
In the summertime I go on nature walks. I admire all its beauty and try my best to treat every living creature with the same respect I would want to be treated.

I sometimes go out in nature with a tear in my eye. I'm older then you think and I'm younger then you think.

I have a nephew who is three years old. Nicolas.He is a beautiful child and he is very intelligent even as a three year old.

I realize that if the ways of man do not change soon he will be growing up in a world far different from the one I grew up in.

What a tragedy it would should the ways of man continue by the time he is old enough to realize his generation doesn't stand a chance.







[edit on 26-12-2005 by Huabamambo]

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

I quote Jerry Russel Ph.D:

www.attackonamerica.net...
The gravitational potential energy of the upper stories would be coupled into the frame below, beginning to destroy it. The frame below would deflect elastically, absorbing energy in the process of deflecting. At weak points, the metal structure would break, but the elastic energy absorbed into the entire frame would not be available to do more destruction. Instead, it would be dissipated in vibration, acoustic noise and heat. Eventually this process would grind to a halt, because the gravitational potential energy of a skyscraper is nowhere near sufficient to destroy its own frame.

Ah, yes. Jerry Russell, the electrical engineer.

I don’t believe that structural engineering is a criteria for a degree in electrical engineering. I can’t see how his PhD in cognitive and decision sciences can help there either.

Yeap another one joins the team

Distinguished University of Minnesota Philosophy Professor Joins 9/11 Fight, Saying the Truth Must Be Uncovered

James H.Fetzer, PhD., has publicly thrown his hat in the ring to support other professors seriously questioning and casting doubt on the official 9/11 story.
16 Dec 2005

By Greg Szymanski

Snip
“One fascinating aspect of 9/11 is that the official story involves collaboration between some nineteen persons in order to bring about illegal ends and thus obviously qualifies as a conspiracy theory,” wrote Fetzer.

“When critics of the government offer an alternative account that implicates key figures of the government in 9/11, that obviously qualifies as a ‘conspiracy theory’, too. But what matters now is that we are confronted by alternative accounts of what happened on 9/11, both of which qualify as "conspiracy theories". It is therefore no longer rational to dismiss one of them as a "conspiracy theory" in favor of the other. The question becomes, which of two ‘conspiracy theories’ is more defensible?”

After setting the record straight on conspiracy theories, Fetzer in his paper delves into an analysis of the 9/11 evidence, saying that the controlled demolition of the WTC must be taken seriously.

~~
“Most Americans may not realize that no steel-structure high-rise building has ever collapsed from fire in the history of civil engineering, either before or after 9/11,” wrote Fetzer. “If we assume that those fires have occurred in a wide variety of buildings under a broad range of conditions, that evidence suggests that these buildings do not have a propensity to collapsed as an effect of fire. That makes an alternative explanation, especially the use of powerful explosives in a controlled demolition, a hypothesis that must be taken seriously.”

~~
Besides the WTC, Fetzer also provides a detailed analysis of the Pentagon crash, questioning as many before him, “What Really Happened?”

~~
In his paper, he states: Link


~~
Fetzer will appear next Monday on Greg Szymanski’s nationwide radio show, the Investigative Journal, on the Republic Broadcasting Network at
www.rbnlive.com...

Originally posted by LeftBehind


I responded with questions of my own to hold your theory to the same standard of evidence that you hold to the official story. I fail to see how this is disingenous or a disinfo topic.



[edit on 23-12-2005 by LeftBehind]

I see how it is. Since the official story is the ONLY one with the evidence and subsequent "numbers" that we need so dearly, how can you NOT see it? I mean, come on people.....when are you going to wake up? The government doesn't put out evidence when it knows something is fishy. I can't believe some people will just sit back and take the official mumbojumbo without bashing an eye.....where is this country headed?

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I quote Jerry Russel Ph.D:

Might not be wise to quote from that particular Russell article, given what he said about it later:

The central argument in my essay was that the process of collapse should have involved enough friction that the fall of the building should at least have been braked significantly compared to the acceleration of an object in free fall. The argument seemed perfectly reasonable if not obvious to me, and I managed to trick some pretty smart people with it. But the truth is that it is possible for a building to collapse in a process which concentrates high leverage at certain joints in the structure. The result is a nearly frictionless collapse. This was very counter-intuitive to me, but people who work with structures seem quite aware of it. This technical article by Bazant & Zhou explains this in some detail, and although I believe their presentation is oversimplified, the basic message seems to be correct.
www.911-strike.com...

His more up-to-date piece is at www.911-strike.com...

[edit on 27-12-2005 by ashmok]

Originally posted by Sauron
Yeap another one joins the team

Distinguished University of Minnesota Philosophy Professor Joins 9/11 Fight, Saying the Truth Must Be Uncovered

James H.Fetzer, PhD., has publicly thrown his hat in the ring to support other professors seriously questioning and casting doubt on the official 9/11 story.
16 Dec 2005

not exactly an objective voice, now is he?

What does a PhD in Philosophy contribute to this? Not much as far as I can tell.

Must be getting harder to seem genuinely concerned about 9/11, Howard, with all this mocking replacing what little "debunking" you used to attempt.

Whenever someone relevant joins the movement, you create threads with the sole purpose of discrediting him. Whenever someone of an irrelevant field joins the movement, though they may still be a very intelligent person, you just suggest they have no idea what they're talking about. Oh, God forbid someone be intelligent enough in matters other than his main expertise to notice something was up on 9/11! Those collapses only defied basic physics. 13 floors crushing 97 into nothing but dust and shards of steel? With perfectly symmetry? And not slowing down? Not to mention the angular momentum disappearing and the 7700 pound debris being ejected about 600 feet and the explosions coming out of the sides on the way down and the ridiculous collapse time itself.

Anybody that graduates from any educational institution should be able to pick up on things like that, seeing as how you're required to take subjects very relevant to those points to graduate anyway. Or did you forget that?

[edit on 27-12-2005 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by ashmok

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace
I quote Jerry Russel Ph.D:

Might not be wise to quote from that particular Russell article, given what he said about it later:

The central argument in my essay was that the process of collapse should have involved enough friction that the fall of the building should at least have been braked significantly compared to the acceleration of an object in free fall. The argument seemed perfectly reasonable if not obvious to me, and I managed to trick some pretty smart people with it. But the truth is that it is possible for a building to collapse in a process which concentrates high leverage at certain joints in the structure. The result is a nearly frictionless collapse. This was very counter-intuitive to me, but people who work with structures seem quite aware of it. This technical article by Bazant & Zhou explains this in some detail, and although I believe their presentation is oversimplified, the basic message seems to be correct.
www.911-strike.com...

His more up-to-date piece is at www.911-strike.com...

[edit on 27-12-2005 by ashmok]

That's an interesting find ashmok...

Espicially this part...

The argument seemed perfectly reasonable if not obvious to me, and I managed to trick some pretty smart people with it. But the truth is that it is possible for a building to collapse in a process which concentrates high leverage at certain joints in the structure. The result is a nearly frictionless collapse. This was very counter-intuitive to me, but people who work with structures seem quite aware of it.

Originally posted by ashmok
Might not be wise to quote from that particular Russell article, given what he said about it later:

...This technical article by Bazant & Zhou explains this in some detail, and although I believe their presentation is oversimplified, the basic message seems to be correct.

The problem is Bazant & Zhou came out with their theory two days after the collapse without knowing anything about the actual construction of the towers. They never returned to their theory after early October. Their theory has been debunked in many facets across the web, one of the most notable being that it hinges completely on the steel being heated to 800C. This being contradicted by the physical evidence, their theory is bunkum beyond that.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace


I think the most pressing question is: How did AgentSmith get so chubby when it is a well-known fact that British cuisine is bloody awful?

I think the real question is......how did agent Smith get so chubby-chubby with these astronauts? Most normal people (i.e. not in the government) hardly ever get the chance to meet people like this. Hell, I live in DC and never get to meet people of this calliber. So, Agent Smith....if you are NOT a government agent....what's the story?

Well, I think I might let you all just wonder about that! LOL

(I'll give you a clue - a big part of it is not acting like a nutter and not asking stupid questions! I won't mention a name I have in mind as the guy likes to start lawsuits when anyone says anything bad about him LOL)

[edit on 28-12-2005 by AgentSmith]

for me this was the final nail in the coffin, it's amazing how far i've come since October, a month earlier i laughed in my friend's face when he said our gov't was behind 9/11..... i believed everything about 9/11 our gov't had said and believed we should have gone to iraq, i mean i knew our gov't was corrupt as far as corporations calling the shots, but man, never did i think they'd go this far... after 2.5 solid weeks of nonstop documentaries, internet research (not limited to "conspiracy" websites) i just downloaded this 2 weeks ago and it's a closed case, if i were on any jury presented with all the circumstantial, video, eyewitness evidence and the lies and coverups... i'd be forced to sentence certain individuals in our gov't to prison for a long long time!

i'm just glad that we have whistle blowers like sibel edmonds and people like Rick with the courage not to hand over video evidence to the FBI or MSM when then know something isn't right.....

he's actually living in spain now, he fears arrest in the US, i talked to him last week by chance on myspace... he posted in the 9/11 truth group and i had to help him out with some html issues...... i'll ask for his permission before i post his myspace url out of decency, but he seems pretty open to talk about it.... i'll inform him of this board and thread

peace,
denny

[edit on 3-1-2006 by derdy]

Originally posted by derdy
for me this was the final nail in the coffin, it's amazing how far i've come since October, a month earlier i laughed in my friend's face when he said our gov't was behind 9/11..... i believed everything about 9/11 our gov't had said and believed we should have gone to iraq, i mean i knew our gov't was corrupt as far as corporations calling the shots, but man, never did i think they'd go this far... after 2.5 solid weeks of nonstop documentaries, internet research (not limited to "conspiracy" websites) i just downloaded this 2 weeks ago[.................]

Don't forget the same way you were 'brainwashed' by just seeing one side of the story before - you can equally become 'brainwashed' by just subjecting yourself to the alternative explanations.
Remember how you could relate to and understand the 'official' explanations without thinking something was up? Seem familiar?
Just be careful not to go too much the other way.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Don't forget the same way you were 'brainwashed' by just seeing one side of the story before - you can equally become 'brainwashed' by just subjecting yourself to the alternative explanations.
Remember how you could relate to and understand the 'official' explanations without thinking something was up? Seem familiar?
Just be careful not to go too much the other way.

I'm aware of this, however, now i am more informed and educated about everything than i was before... before i didn't question it and didn't research it myself..... and i don't buy into things just because somebody says so, however, 9/11 was quite traumatic for me, being a very patriotic american i rode the emotional wave and didn't look back... then after the lies about iraq came out, i got disillusioned with the whole agenda of our gov't and started to question everything....... given the fact that i do believe our gov't is accountable by being involved, it opens up a whole new path of ideas... and given all that is going on right now, it's a lot easier to believe than the BS they're trying to tell us....... it certainly raises the prospect that ANYTHING is possible if they're going to kill 3.000 innocents to further an agenda and especially after learning of operation northwoods and the coup attempt that got swept under the rug in the 1930's

[edit on 3-1-2006 by derdy]

There are definately a lot of questions that need to be answered, there was a good program on here in the UK last night about the CIA and all the things they don't want you to know called 'Secrets of the CIA' presented by Danny Wallace.

There is a little info on it here:

www.c21media.net...

I only caught the first half but what I did see was very good, they didn't mess around speculating on any wild theories - they just stuck with the facts (which are more than interesting enough). I missed the section where they told us about the connections with Bin Laden and Saddam, but the first half I saw did go into detail with regards to how they manipulated governments in Africa, Cuba, etc and the methods they used.
It's good to see real facts being exposed at last like this for people to see, quite often the truth is just as or more interesting that the fiction anyway.
If you can get to see it then I highly recommend it, even though I missed the section with Bin Laden I get the jist of it and that would, of course, be significant when exploring the 9/11 side of things.

thanks, i appreciate that... i'll give it a look.... another good bbc doc i saw was "the power of nightmares" don't know if you saw it, basically breaks down the US gov't through regan and before al'qaide and all the way through today... it was a very good piece, lengthy, but i'm pretty used to spending endless hours on the PC for work, play and research.... i'll have to go find where the torrent resides... i've been archiving all my evidence on my pc, but sometimes i forget to add the urls to my favorites

Wow AgentSmith, trying to make a good first impression? The denial will follow once you established yourself as "open minded", eh? Well, I have to admit you appear smarter when it comes to psychology than is the case with science. Still transparent for the casual observer...

Anyway, now that you conceded that the CIA et al do in fact exert influence outside the sphere considered righteous for most people, how does that fit in with your conviction that on 9/11, everything occured as described by official sources?

For any interested in the Documentary The Power if Nightmares, Second link from the bottom of the page

Documentary.The.Power.Of.Nightmares.01.Baby.Its.Cold.Outside.avi 360949760
Documentary.The.Power.Of.Nightmares.02.The.Phantom.Victory.divx.avi 519942144
Documentary.The.Power.Of.Nightmares.03.The.Shadows.In.The.Cave.divx.avi 516345856

Source
search.bittorrent.com...

thanks, i was waiting on a reply from smith to go dig for it, but not i can just add it...... much appreciated

Originally posted by Lumos
Wow AgentSmith, trying to make a good first impression? The denial will follow once you established yourself as "open minded", eh? Well, I have to admit you appear smarter when it comes to psychology than is the case with science. Still transparent for the casual observer...

Oh you disappoint me - I though you had me on ignore - you broke your promise - how can I ever trust you again? This relationship is over

I do entertain conspiracy theories - just not all of them - I just see the subtly of the truth and the likely format of it's execution, otherwise I wouldn't be here - duh. Oh and I don't like you :p

However, if you wish to have some sort of discussion or argument with or about me - I suggest you either use U2U or start a seperate thread if you want it public rather than derail other peoples.

Anyway, now that you conceded that the CIA et al do in fact exert influence outside the sphere considered righteous for most people, how does that fit in with your conviction that on 9/11, everything occured as described by official sources?

I didn't learn anything new really from the program - most of it I have known for a long time. I thought it was, however, an excellent program to summerise a lot of events and it presented it in a factual way rather than wildly speculate like most drivel. The worst thing about the Eyewitness video is they spend far too long speculating and making false assumptions when the evidence should speak for itself.
Assuming the original footage really has not been altered it is a useful piece of evidence, to be honest, but the information is lost by the awful presentation and the blatant lies or misinterpretations with regards to the debris trajectories (going by your response in my thread you obviously have a high degreee of knowledge in the area of science so I'm sure you spotted it straight away)...
I am also suspicious of someone who claims to not be in something for the money and then hashes a DVD together for sale when most other people would stick the raw footage out on P2P and have a website detailing how to get it and/or with torrent links.
But all that's just speculation, the raw footage (if genuine) is of course interesting.

I don't think I ever said that I believe everything is as it seems with 9/11, I simply think some of the theories with regards to the collapses and the actual attack are ridiculous when the truth is likely to be a lot simpler (and there is still plenty of room for a little 'you know what' from 'you know who').

But anyway, I am really flattered that you seem to suddenly have taken an interest in me, my ego is hugely inflated by your apparant stalking. I have a UFO website but I'm thinking of starting one where people can talk about me and worship my greatness - I'll be sure to drop you a line when it's up and running

But for now - let's get back to the topic - ...i...i..i..if that's alright with you of course?