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The Bible is not the word of god

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posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 12:48 AM
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Produkt:
Are you aware that the argument you present to prove Jesus is not the messiah implies that you believe the Bible is the Word of God, or at least the absolute truth? I had you pegged wrong, as I was sure you held the contrary view.




posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by I See You
Can you explain your vision and why you think it was a god? I'm curious to what you saw.


It happened on my fourth year attending church, about a year and a half ago. I was kneeling at my bed at home, and I was still spiritually weak and doubtfull. I really didn't know whether or not God existed, and I guess I was leaning to the fact that He didn't. I was kneeling there thinking how stupid this felt, and I didn't feel humble nor did I care what happened.

I was listening to soft gospel while I prayed, and at that point I was sick of it. I was sick of going to church when I had no idea why I was going, I was sick of doubting everything I did, and I was sick of constantly wondering whether or not God really existed. A few days earlier I had come to a conclusion that I would stop going to church and forget about the whole religion deal very soon.

As I prayed, I suddenly felt very light-headed and warm. It was kind of like going to sleep, except for I was fully conscious while I realized my body was going to sleep. I felt like I was choking, and I couldn't breathe or catch my breath. I panicked but suddenly I felt a wave of light shine in my eyes. It was pure, blindingly white light. It felt like my vision was way out of focus for a second, but then I started to see clearly.

What I saw was an open pasture. I blinked a few times but saw nothing but grass. I turned around and there was a single tree, with a person under it. I felt terribly scared and wanted to run, but the person lifted His head and looked straight at me. My fears and anguish suddenly left me, and I remembered reading something in the bible similar to what I felt at that second. Its the passage that told of Jesus appearing to his disciples in the middle of a lake. He was walking on water and his disciples were afraid but Jesus calmed them with only a few words.

When the figure under the tree looked at me, I looked back at Him. I couldn't see Him clearly, but I remember that he was cloaked in complete white. His body was not made of flesh, but was made of pure light. I walked to where He was, under the tree, and realized he was holding something. In his arms was a baby. The baby's eyes were closed, as if it were sleeping. I took a step back out of disbelief, the baby was me as an infant. I knelt down before the figure, and I just cried. I cried until my eyes burned from the salt, and I just couldn't stop crying. It was Him after all, it was Him after all these years of uncertainty. God cradled my spirit in his arms, smiling down at me. I felt a mixed feeling of happiness and stupidity. I felt foolish for all these wasted years of being in the dark, and I felt infintely happy that I now knew God really was real.

I cried and bawled like a baby for what seemed like hours. Every time I stopped crying, the tears would just come up again. I felt so stupid, but I smiled back at God through my tear soaked eyes. I sincerely smiled without grief or doubt for the first time in my life. I smiled and wiped the tears from my eyes. All of my emotions had broken out like a flood, and now I was free.

When I was before God, it was the greatest feeling in the universe. All of the chains and burdens that were strapped to my back broke off and I knew everything would be fine. The baby in God's hands opened his eyes for the first time and looked around the pasture, finally resting its eyes on God. Everything became bright again, but this time I was not sad or afraid. I opened my eyes, and realized I was staring up at the ceiling. During my prayer, I must have fallen down onto the floor. I just lied there, thinking and thinking about everything I had just experienced. My eyes burned a little, and I discovered that my face and hair were all wet with tears. Checking my alarm clock, I realized that almost two hours had passed.

That Saturday, I went to church and told my pastor what had happened. He was greatly happy that I had this vision. My pastor told me that many church members had visions, but each one was different. A question had been bothering me all this time, and I asked my pastor why I couldn't see God's face. He told me that I would see God's face when I was ready...



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 01:02 AM
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This is all very uplifting but what does it have to do with the topic.

The original post, for review:


Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
my first argument to support this statement is the fact that none of the books of the bible even claim to be the word of god. they are title 'The gospel according to ????'.

Who is to say that the authors of these books are not corrupt people perpetuating a lie?

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Conspiracy Theorist]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
my first argument to support this statement is the fact that none of the books of the bible even claim to be the word of god. they are title 'The gospel according to ????'.

Who is to say that the authors of these books are not corrupt people perpetuating a lie?

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Conspiracy Theorist]


I frequent ATS every darn day but have avoided this thread as if my life depended on it lol - the impossiblity regarding an answer to this question is blatantly obvious.

You will no doubt have read many a post about faith being all about believing, unquestioningly etc blah blah.

The bottom line, in my opinion, is that unless mankind accepts that belief in the bible is an individual choice, there will never be any peace in this world.
The theory of "good" which is the basis of the bible is a good thing, but the interpretation of the words written by MEN have caused too much bloodshed and death than I care to mention. I bet God wishes the Bible had never been written - sticking to the basic stone commandments was probably all he wanted. Then, man stuck his big ego beek into it and wrote a book and look where its got us.

So sad. So sad infact, that a simple notion of a good deed here at ATS/BTS cannot take place without massive debate over the words in this book.
Perhaps, simplicity is best. And, acceptance of others beliefs, without question instead of condemnation and judgement.

A scenario that is another impossibility, I know.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:42 AM
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I believe the bible is the inspired word of god based on the fullfilled
prophecies. when the antichrist is on the world scene and armageddon is
being played out before your very eyes. you might believe then. but then
it may be too late.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 05:26 AM
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On the first page it was brought up about being a slave/concubine to someone else. The correct interpretation would be to not do things for the selfish self, but give to other selfs. This is what Jesus taught and what you must do is be a servant to others. Not thinking in the present day context of slavery, but be of a servantlike behavior rather than sit on the pedastal higher than your fellow man. It ALL boils down to selfish vs. unselfish.

Also about the recent hell stuff and not believing it. Of course it is your choice. If you knew 911 was going to happen ahead of time. Would you not warn of hell as Jesus and others have? Human minds can rationalize thinking about punishment, but we are not able to rationalize on His thinking level. Our perspective can be riddled with fear, where there is no fear around Him. The visible world does mimic the invisible world. So I'll ask this, can you purify gold with anything other than heat?



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 06:55 AM
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here are many prophecies of the old testament fulfilled by jesus christ....


Yes, and the same with Bar Kochba. which was why he was once thought to be the Messiah. Until the Romans killed him too. Now why would they stop thinking Bar Kochba was not the Messiah if he died if there were such thing as a second comming? Becuase there is no second comming! There have been other's before Jesus who have all died, just like Jesus, thus making none of them the Messiah, because none of them fulfilled the entire prophecy before their deaths.




One reason is that the Scriptures make 300 prophecies of the "First Coming of the Messiah", as the suffering servant of Is.53,


Issaih 53 is following the theme of Issiah 52 talking about the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecy is written in the singular because the Jews are considered as one. If you look at the Torah (yea that book the Messiah was supposed to uphold, not the Christian Bible) you can see many examples of the Jewish nation refered to in the singular.




The Jews did not kill Jesus, the Roman soldiers did, under the command of a Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate... however the "real killers" of Jesus are you and I, because each time we sin, "we crucify the Son of God for ourselves holding him up to mockery" (Hebrews 6:6)...


Hebrews is a Christian gospel and has no real bearing on the prophecies or true Messiah. Hebrews was written after Jesus had died (or fled to Kashmir).




The Jews, and you and I, were expecting a Messiah to bring us the kingdom of this world, but Jesus offers us something infinitely bigger, the Kingdom of Heaven


Why would Jesus offer the kingdom of heaven when this isn't what the Jewish Messiah was to bring? The Messiah was to bring all Jews back to Israel, bring world peace, teach universal knowledge of the god of Israel, usher in an era of world peace. None of these were done by Jesus (obviously).




The "Messiah" is an idea and hope that runs through every page of the Holy Scriptures... with 300 prophecies about his "First Coming", and 500 about his "Second Coming"... announcing his character, his time of coming, the type and details of his church... and the Messiah is the core of the heart of every Jew... He was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David... he shall save Israel and the whole world...


The second coming is a Christian invention, there is no second coming, which is why other's before Jesus were not accepted as the Messiah. Also, Jesus is not a direct descendent of David if Joseph was not the father of Jesus. And there are two conflicting lineage's for Jesus. Luke's and Mathew's. The Messiah will be born of human parent's, and everyone alive hsa the capacity to step up to the role of the Messiah. Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3


Originally posted by mytym
Produkt:
Are you aware that the argument you present to prove Jesus is not the messiah implies that you believe the Bible is the Word of God, or at least the absolute truth? I had you pegged wrong, as I was sure you held the contrary view.


No, it does not imply that I believe the bible is the word of god, all it shows is that you can use the bible to show Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. And if there's any doubt on my religous standing, you can go back in this very same thread and see the time's I've mentioned that I'm not religous in any way. So drop the unfounded assumptions and please don't pick a religous belief for me.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Well how can something that isn't true be used to prove something else? It seems there is a double standard: "The Bible is not true in all circumstances EXCEPT if you need to disprove Jesus being the messiah, in which case. you may take it word for word."

How about this, I'll write my own scripture entitled, the sentence according to mytym, chapter 1,verse 1: "Jesus is the Messiah." Now I'll use this scripture to prove that Jesus is the Messiah.

[edit on 19/3/06 by mytym]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 10:18 AM
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mytym,

Wha? Your not making any sense ...

How is it a problem to not be religous, but be able to use the scripture's of those who are religous to make a point in the religous sense? Going by the Jewish prophecy alone and not the reinterpretation of the Christians, you can clearly see that Jesus was not the Messiah. One doesn't have to be religous to see what a book says. Idk, maybe it's just a hard concept for some to accept. One of the pitfalls of being a man of faith I guess. Should try and overcome that eh?



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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Produkt:


They, back then would have been the Romans, especially after Constantine brought Christianity to power. Even today there are many Christians who when calling someone a Jew make it sound as if it's an insult, or even some who still make the Jewish people look like the bad guy's.


Yea, even today......................The Vatican has yet to recognize Israel as a nation. Why is that? When you understand that you will understand why a whole lot of your argument about Christians quickly goes up in smoke.




[edit on 19-3-2006 by Sun Matrix]



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Yea, even today......................The Vatican has yet to recognize Israel as a nation. Why is that? When you understand that you will understand why a whole lot of your argument about Christians quickly goes up in smoke.
[edit on 19-3-2006 by Sun Matrix]


Does it matter what the Vatican or Christians say or do? No, not really. The Messiah will bring all Jews back to Israel, not usher in a new Christian religion. The Vatican wouldn't be in the position of power it's in right now if Constantine didn't legalize Christianity and make it law of the land. The RCC is a joke.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Does it matter what the Vatican or Christians say or do? No, not really.

Well, until you understand why the Vatican has not recognized Israel as a nation, you will not understand why it matters what the Vatican says.




The Messiah will bring all Jews back to Israel, not usher in a new Christian religion.

What specific scripture or scriptures are you referring to? Bring this fact to the table.



The Vatican wouldn't be in the position of power it's in right now if Constantine didn't legalize Christianity and make it law of the land.
There is a difference between knowing and understanding. You know that Constantine, the Roman Emperor, backed the bishops of Rome and started the Catholic church. But you don't seem to understand why. Like I said, when you understand why the Vatican has not recognized the nation of Israel, you will have understanding and not just knowledge.




The RCC is a joke.

In your lifetime, you will see the RCC promote a religion of acceptance. You will see the Muslims join with the RCC and all religions and usher in the New Age.

Now I would like to look at that scripture where you say the Messiah will bring the Jews back to the land of Israel.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 02:16 PM
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It does not matter what the RCC has to say or think on any of it. The RCC is not Israel and therefore any opinionated garbage they may have is irrelevent.



3 For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

8 Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.

9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.


Please tell me where in there does it say the Christians, the Vatican, the Roman Catholic Church? ... No where. Where does it say that a new 'Christian' religion will be brought into being instead of the Messiah bringing the Jews back to Israel? ... No where. Your doing nothing more then preaching Christian inventions created AFTER Jesus died (or fled to Kashmir) and not Torah prophecy.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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Produkt:
You mustn't have read my scripture. It clearly proves that Jesus is the messiah! It is written. Chapter 1, Verse 1. That's all the proof that you should need. How can this be?



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
Produkt:
You mustn't have read my scripture. It clearly proves that Jesus is the messiah! It is written. Chapter 1, Verse 1. That's all the proof that you should need. How can this be?


Your scripture is what ... less then 24hrs old (from the time written on this board.)

What bearing does your newly invented scripture have upon scripture written 3,000 some odd years ago? Considering that scripture doesn't talk of a Messiah name Jesus or a Messiah born of a virgin. The only mention of these thing's we see are in Christian invented scripture's after Mary had gone off and lied after commiting adultry. Can't really blame her for that, I'd probably lie to in order to save myself from being stoned to death.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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So my scripture is disregarded simply because I wasn't alive thousands of years ago? It's still written, it must be true. What has time got to do with it?



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
So my scripture is disregarded simply because I wasn't alive thousands of years ago? It's still written, it must be true. What has time got to do with it?


So are we now going to say that it's perfectly acceptable to rewrite history and prophecy and make it into what we want it to be? Just because you or the Christians write that Jesus was the Messiah doesn't make it true when the basis of those claims are relying upon Jewish prophecies, There were no Christians before Jesus died.

If I wrote Satan is the one true god who loved us so much that he gave us knowledge whereas the false god hated and feared us and tried to keep said knowledge from us for fear that we would overthrow him.

Does that now make it true? It must by your logic.



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:24 PM
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So now you're saying that the Old Testemant is the truth and the New Testemant is a lie. Is that correct?



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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The Bible says, Test Every Word And See If It Is True! As It Also Says Test All Spirits As Well! If You Ask it shall be given unto you, seek & you shall find! He Will Prove It To You, All You Need To Do Is Ask God!
Man will never give you the answers you seek, only God Can! But note, No Man can go to the Father, except through Jesus!



posted on Mar, 19 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
So now you're saying that the Old Testemant is the truth and the New Testemant is a lie. Is that correct?


The new testament being a Christian invention ... yes. For good reason too! Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah.

That still doesn't answer my question. Does my 'scripture' now become the true 'scripture' because I wrote it, just as you did with yours?



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