The Bible is not the word of god

And by the way, you want proof for God's existence? Go to my church this Saturday, and you'll witness the holy spirit at work. Dozens of people at my church (including me) have had visions of God, and one person in my church has even been demon possessed.

Oh, but you demand immediate proof right? Watch any member of our church pray. 99% of my church has the holy spirit, which allows them to speak in tongues when they pray. You can read more about speaking in tongues here www.tjc.org...

I attend a church called True Jesus Church, and you can also find the explanation for the name on the website I provided. I joined TJC five years ago, but it was only one year ago that I became a true believer. One year ago, I wanted to believe in God but I found no reason to. I had little proof and my spirit was too weak. But God showed himself to me and my father, and I'm eternally greatfull for this. I did not find God, God found me.

is there any relevance to this discussion of whether the book known as The Bible is the true "word of G-d" and whether there really is a Supreme Being?

I see these as two very different discussions.

Originally posted by Al Davison
is there any relevance to this discussion of whether the book known as The Bible is the true "word of G-d" and whether there really is a Supreme Being?

I see these as two very different discussions.

They're very related in fact. If the Bible is the Word of God, then there is a Supreme Being. If God, the supreme being, acknowledges that this is His word, then it is the Word of God. It's only different to those who don't believe the Bible is the word of God and/or have not asked God if this is His word.

OK, I can accept that this is your belief.

I can easily see G-d without any sort of book involved. I'm not arguing whether the Bible is the word of G-d - only whether the veracity of this particular book is in any way necessary or related to the existance of G-d. Personally, I don't see where one has any bearing on the other. It is not necessary that G-d has ever had any published work in order to justify the existance of G-d.

I cannot trust that any man or group of men or women have ever been granted the authority to write on G-d's behalf. In fact, I distrust that notion quite a bit.

Hmm... I'm pretty sure that I don't worship a cross or fish, neither do I kill random women nor do I wage holy wars on people. And last time I checked, I go to church on Saturday(me are protestant). And where the heck do you get off saying that Christians treat others as "lesser people"??? I've gone from home to home in my neighborhood giving willing people bibles, and I can proudly say that most of them accepted one. The true christians raise charities, treat others as their own brother, and work for the good of the people and God.

I didn't intend for you to assume I was singling you out, obviously I can't single you out as specificly doing these act's as I don't personally know you. However, this is the history of Christianity itself. I've noticed that most Christians feel as if they themselve's are being singled out when anything 'bad' (read: true) about their religous belief's. Almost as if they want to feel as if they themselve's are being persecuted.

I attend a church called True Jesus Church,

A new Christian sect established in 1917 in Bejing, China. And how is it that this 83(ish) year old Christian offshoot sect anymore right then the much older 2000(ish) year old and more widley accepted Christian sect? It's good to see that this sect is observing Sabbath the day it was intended to be observed, a very rare thing amongst Christians.

[edit on 17-3-2006 by Produkt]

99% of my church has the holy spirit, which allows them to speak in tongues when they pray.

en.wikipedia.org...
It is notable that in Charismatic/Pentecostal Churches there is often a state of heightened emotionalism which may, in the view of skeptics, itself give rise to instances of glossolalia (what Christians in those churches often refer to as speaking in tongues).

....

The syllables that make up instances of glossolalia typically appear to be unpatterned reorganizations of phonemes from the primary language of the person uttering the syllables; thus, the glossolalia of people from Russia, the United Kingdom, and Brazil all sound quite different from each other, but vaguely resemble the Russian, English, and Portuguese languages, respectively. Many linguists generally regard most glossolalia as lacking any identifiable semantics, syntax, or morphology

...

Glossolalia is evident in the renowned ancient Oracle of Delphi, whereby a priestess of the god Apollo (called a sibyl) speaks in strange utterances, supposedly through the spirit of Apollo in her, but possibly related to high levels of natural gas present in spring waters beneath the temple.

Glossolalia has also been observed in shamanism and the Voodoo religion of Haiti; it can often be brought on by the ingestion of hallucinogenic drugs or entheogens such as Psilocybe mushrooms.

I can make funny language like noises too. Maybe I'm filled with the holy spirit!

yeah i know that wars have always happend yada yada....but the war described in the bible that would happend in the end times doesnt describe past wars. it talks about advanced war.. not wars out in fields somewhere with cannons. the wars that are happening today, not 100 years ago and definatly any before that. the only way to know if the bible is the true word of god is to test it. see if all of the predictions have come true. every one has. 100% thru thousands of years all have happened to the letter.




you will hear of wars (iraq) and rumours of war (iran)




Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.


Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (mainstream religion, catholic church...etc teaching the false christ...teaching sun worship that started with nimrod in babylon...a satanic teaching that is called religion, there to keep you from the truth...infested egypt and is now running our lives daily...its cloaked with the false christianity and its sisters)

Mat 24:6 And you will hear of wars (iraq) and rumours of war(iran): see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.


Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.


Mat 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to be afflicted (all christians who will not give up their faith until death) and will kill you: and you will be hated of all nations for my name's sake.


Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets will rise, and will deceive many.


Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (too much bad stuff happenin...no true love or trust just sex and violence.)


Mat 24:13 But he that can endure unto the end, the same will be saved.


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then the end will come. (just so someone couldnt say i didnt know about christ...ha yeah i think everybody has heard the message....hopefully people dont ignore the warning like they did with noah.....not much time)

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, whoso readeth, let him understand: (yeah daniel had some interesting things to say)


Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:


Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!


Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: (that word has always caught my eye in this verse and the season)


Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.


Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.


Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (technology....being able to heal with pharmicudicals and doctors...claiming this pill or that pill will save you on every commercial you see...along with every other materialistic product promising salvation for the soul..... i definatly can see the real message ......spirit of the antichrist at work no doubt...)


Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.


Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert;(middle east) go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; (usa england)believe [it] not.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (easily achieve the speed of light)

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (maybe nuclear clouds blocking out the sun and moon...king james changed the word for sky or possibly even where the stars are to heaven or heavens)
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: (in our atmosphere, sky, maybe coming from space coming down to earth ) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels(beings or starships millions of years more advance than us flying in our sky, after all they did create us) with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer [is] nigh: (when you see even the first part of his story start to happen.. the wars and rumors of war, then its about that time)

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.


Mat 24:34 I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (his children dont know the day or hour but he left us info on when to start looking for him..probably down to months..)

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. ( people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, being busy entertaining themselves with things of this world)

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,


Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (because people do not take our creators word serious...never study his word to see what he has said to us, and refuse to listen to it but still call themselves christians....they will be caught off guard...all people no matter the religious title they give themselves)

Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Mat 24:41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.


Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.






[edit on 18-3-2006 by Funkydung]

The book of Mathew was written roughly 30 years after Jesus' death, either right before or shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman's. It was mainly written to answer the question's of the Jews, such as, was Jesus the true Messiah and if he accomplished that which the Jewish Messiah was supposed to accomplish.

The fact is, Jesus was not the true Messiah and did not fulfill the entire messianic prophecies. The third temple has yet to be built, Jerusalem was destroyed 30 years after Jesus' death, whereas the true Messiah was supposed to have gathered all Jews back to the land of Isreal. The true Messiah was to usher in world peace, end all hatred, oppression, suffering, and disease. Jesus has accomplished none of these tasks. If anything, the resultant religion formed after the death of Jesus, that being Christianity has been one of oppression, hatred, suffering. Jesus also admits that he was not here to bring peace, but instead to bring the sword. Self admittance of not being the true Jewish Messiah. Christian claim's that most of the prophecies will be accomplished durring the second comming are unfounded claims, the original Jewish Messianic prophecies make no mention of a second coming. The true Messiah was to accomplish all these tasks durring his time, not durring some false second coming. The second comming is a Christian invention used to explain away why Jesus never accomplished the task's the true Messiah was to accomplish. This is why the Jews say Jesus did not qualify as the Messiah. There were other's before Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah as well. Bar Kochba was one man believed to have been the Messiah, untill the Romans killed him, thus proving he was NOT the Messiah, just as Jesus was NOT the Messiah. The Messiah was not sent to set out to form a new religion and change the laws, Christianity has done just that. Formed a new religion and changed the laws. Sabbath is saturday, most Christians observe Sabbath on sunday, disobeying Gods 4th commandment. Christianity has lied and changed it's religous holidays to match those of pagan holiday's just to win the pagan's over. The history of Christianity furthur prove's Jesus could NOT have been the true Jewish Messiah and that the true Messiah still hasn't come.

Originally posted by Produkt
The book of Mathew was written roughly 30 years after Jesus' death, either right before or shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman's. It was mainly written to answer the question's of the Jews, such as, was Jesus the true Messiah and if he accomplished that which the Jewish Messiah was supposed to accomplish.

The fact is, Jesus was not the true Messiah and did not fulfill the entire messianic prophecies. The third temple has yet to be built, Jerusalem was destroyed 30 years after Jesus' death, whereas the true Messiah was supposed to have gathered all Jews back to the land of Isreal. The true Messiah was to usher in world peace, end all hatred, oppression, suffering, and disease. Jesus has accomplished none of these tasks. If anything, the resultant religion formed after the death of Jesus, that being Christianity has been one of oppression, hatred, suffering. Jesus also admits that he was not here to bring peace, but instead to bring the sword. Self admittance of not being the true Jewish Messiah. Christian claim's that most of the prophecies will be accomplished durring the second comming are unfounded claims, the original Jewish Messianic prophecies make no mention of a second coming. The true Messiah was to accomplish all these tasks durring his time, not durring some false second coming. The second comming is a Christian invention used to explain away why Jesus never accomplished the task's the true Messiah was to accomplish. This is why the Jews say Jesus did not qualify as the Messiah. There were other's before Jesus who claimed to be the Messiah as well. Bar Kochba was one man believed to have been the Messiah, untill the Romans killed him, thus proving he was NOT the Messiah, just as Jesus was NOT the Messiah. The Messiah was not sent to set out to form a new religion and change the laws, Christianity has done just that. Formed a new religion and changed the laws. Sabbath is saturday, most Christians observe Sabbath on sunday, disobeying Gods 4th commandment. Christianity has lied and changed it's religous holidays to match those of pagan holiday's just to win the pagan's over. The history of Christianity furthur prove's Jesus could NOT have been the true Jewish Messiah and that the true Messiah still hasn't come.

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (mainstream religion, catholic church...etc teaching the false christ...teaching sun worship that started with nimrod in babylon...a satanic teaching that is called religion, there to keep you from the truth...infested egypt and is now running our lives daily...its cloaked with the false christianity and its sisters)

this is exactly what im talking about.


whereas the true Messiah was supposed to have gathered all Jews back to the land of Isreal.
i thought that this was happening this very day. thousands by thousands are making thier way back to israel since the rebirth of thier country. isnt that why iran is wanting to wipe them off the face of the earth? because they are jews all back in thier land. the antichrist always leaves his mark. just as with the nazis. the swastika symbol of the sun.

The true Messiah was to usher in world peace, end all hatred, oppression, suffering, and disease. Jesus has accomplished none of these tasks.

he hasnt returned yet. but its getting close. thats the good news he came to earth to bring. that he will end all of these things. and you can say that we dont know when he will come but we do. he left all kinds of info on what to look for when hes on his way.


that being Christianity has been one of oppression, hatred, suffering

that has to do with the false christianity that worships the sun instead of the son. (why do you think they gather together on sunday?) oppression hatred suffering is all antichrist. you can thank nimrod for that.


Jesus also admits that he was not here to bring peace, but instead to bring the sword. Self admittance of not being the true Jewish Messiah.



the sword that Jesus had come to bring was the sword that would be wielded against Christians by the non-Christian world, not one that would be wielded by Christians.

the original Jewish Messianic prophecies make no mention of a second coming. The true Messiah was to accomplish all these tasks durring his time, not durring some false second coming. The second comming is a Christian invention used to explain away why Jesus never accomplished the task's the true Messiah was to accomplish. This is why the Jews say Jesus did not qualify as the Messiah

God allowed these Israelites to be blinded by their denominational rabbis in order that Christ could call and marry His Gentile Bride. Jesus said it was the Talmud that blinded them to eternal Life (Mark 7:13). "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." But what is the divine response to him?" I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.(nimrod...king of babylon)"




Bar Kochba was one man believed to have been the Messiah, untill the Romans killed him, thus proving he was NOT the Messiah, just as Jesus was NOT the Messiah.

bar kochba didnt have the power to rise from the dead after 3 days in the grave. jesus even told people he was gonna do it



Christianity has done just that. Formed a new religion and changed the laws. Sabbath is saturday, most Christians observe Sabbath on sunday, disobeying Gods 4th commandment. Christianity has lied and changed it's religous holidays to match those of pagan holiday's just to win the pagan's over. The history of Christianity furthur prove's Jesus could NOT have been the true Jewish Messiah and that the true Messiah still hasn't come.


back to the start
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (mainstream religion, catholic church...etc teaching the false christ...teaching sun worship that started with nimrod in babylon...a satanic teaching that is called religion, there to keep you from the truth...infested egypt and is now running our lives daily...its cloaked with the false christianity and its sisters)

your listening to the wannabe christians..they have no power. they march to the drum of the antichrist. baal...nimrod...satan. he started this fake christianity at babylon and is in full stride this day. yes they changed it to sunday because they worship the sungod. its all around us. its on our money, its in our food, its in our livingrooms....but dont be fooled by the one that has no power over you.

and if you want to know exactly how this sun worship started and how it has this world around the neck... from the birth of it till now check this thread out www.abovetopsecret.com...
sun_matrix explains things perfectly

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Funkydung]

[edit on 18-3-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by TheBlueSoldier
And by the way, you want proof for God's existence? Go to my church this Saturday, and you'll witness the holy spirit at work. Dozens of people at my church (including me) have had visions of God, and one person in my church has even been demon possessed.

Oh, but you demand immediate proof right? Watch any member of our church pray. 99% of my church has the holy spirit, which allows them to speak in tongues when they pray. You can read more about speaking in tongues here www.tjc.org...



I attend a church called True Jesus Church, and you can also find the explanation for the name on the website I provided. I joined TJC five years ago, but it was only one year ago that I became a true believer. One year ago, I wanted to believe in God but I found no reason to. I had little proof and my spirit was too weak. But God showed himself to me and my father, and I'm eternally greatfull for this. I did not find God, God found me.

Can you explain your vision and why you think it was a god? I'm curious to what you saw.

i thought that this was happening this very day. thousands by thousands are making thier way back to israel since the rebirth of thier country. isnt that why iran is wanting to wipe them off the face of the earth? because they are jews all back in thier land. the antichrist always leaves his mark. just as with the nazis. the swastika symbol of the sun.

The Messiah himself is supposed to be doing this. There has been and is no Messiah now leading them back. Nor are all Jews are going back.

he hasnt returned yet. but its getting close. thats the good news he came to earth to bring. that he will end all of these things. and you can say that we dont know when he will come but we do. he left all kinds of info on what to look for when hes on his way.

The prophecy doesn't call for a second comming. The Messiah is to do these thing's outright. This is why the Jews never considered Jesus as the Messiah. The Romans killed Jesus just as the Romans killed Bar Kochba (another supposed Messiah). There have been many before Jesus who claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, all have died before fulfilling the prophecies.

that has to do with the false christianity that worships the sun instead of the son. (why do you think they gather together on sunday?) oppression hatred suffering is all antichrist. you can thank nimrod for that.

It is through the misinterpretation's of Jesus' teaching that have lead christianity to commit these act's. If Jesus were the true Messiah, these act's would not have been done, as the true Messiah is to usher in an era of peace. Not an era of misinterpretations to commit sins.

the sword that Jesus had come to bring was the sword that would be wielded against Christians by the non-Christian world, not one that would be wielded by Christians.

34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;

36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
Mathew 10:34

Who was Jesus talking to at this time? This is not the sayings of the true Messiah.

God allowed these Israelites to be blinded by their denominational rabbis in order that Christ could call and marry His Gentile Bride. Jesus said it was the Talmud that blinded them to eternal Life (Mark 7:13). "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." But what is the divine response to him?" I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.(nimrod...king of babylon)"

Mark is a Christian gospel. But, since you raised it. Jesus could not have been a descendent of Abraham, for he was born of a virgin. That right there, again, make's him not the Messiah. There is no mention of a virgin birth in the prophecies, that's a Christian invention due to a mistranslation of the word alma. Alma meant 'young woman' not virgin woman. The early Christians mistranslated that so Mary wouldn't be stoned to death, as Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

bar kochba didnt have the power to rise from the dead after 3 days in the grave. jesus even told people he was gonna do it

Did Jesus really even die? There's a very good chance that he could have survived and flee his persecution by the Romans. Rather then risking sticking around to continue preaching. Jesus supposedly died in 30AD, but did he really? In 30AD Kashmiri history teach's us a man named Yuz Asaf came from Isreal with a woman named Mary (Possibly Mary Magdeline) and proclaimed that he was Jesus Christ. Yuz Asaf means the 'healer' or 'the shepard, the one who teachs'. Yuz Asaf was also known by another name, Issa, the word for Christ in that area.

God even says that he will sometimes grant the power of miracles to charlatans to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah. The Messiah was also not to change the Torah.

your listening to the wannabe christians..they have no power. they march to the drum of the antichrist. baal...nimrod...satan. he started this fake christianity at babylon and is in full stride this day. yes they changed it to sunday because they worship the sungod. its all around us. its on our money, its in our food, its in our livingrooms....but dont be fooled by the one that has no power over you.

All of Christianity is fake. Jesus was not the Messiah for a plethora of reason's. This is why the Jews have not and do not believe he qualifies as the Messiah. It's only throught the brand spanking new religion resulting from the death of Jesus, do we get any of these idiotic claims. Virgin birth, Second comming, hell, etc etc etc. These are Christian teaching's.

and if you want to know exactly how this sun worship started and how it has this world around the neck... from the birth of it till now check this thread out www.abovetopsecret.com...

While I could go in there (and just might), I'd be doing nothing more then repeating myself. So I don't really see the point. All of Christianity is fake.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
my first argument to support this statement is the fact that none of the books of the bible even claim to be the word of god. they are title 'The gospel according to ????'.

Who is to say that the authors of these books are not corrupt people perpetuating a lie?

[edit on 8-12-2005 by Conspiracy Theorist]

If the writers of the New Testament were making it all up, you would think they would make themselves look a little better. As written, the apostles look like a bunch of weak, cowardly, foul mouthed, back stabbing, faithless coat tail riders. They sure didn't get much for their efforts either. Ostracized by the powerful Jewish leaders, they all died horrible deaths. Some way to get people to follow you huh?

Today's 'Christianity' has it down much better. Promise wealth, comfort, political power and an escape from the global devastation that the very people you elect cause. Of course re-translating the scriptures to fit your agenda doesn't hurt.

Ostracized by the powerful Jewish leaders, they all died horrible deaths. Some way to get people to follow you huh?

That's one tactic they used and continue to use to this day. They make it out to look like the Jews are the bad guy's. The had to lie and change scripture's to get the pagans to follow them. All sort's of fun stuff was brought about by those heathen's following a false Messiah.

Originally posted by Produkt

Ostracized by the powerful Jewish leaders, they all died horrible deaths. Some way to get people to follow you huh?

That's one tactic they used and continue to use to this day. They make it out to look like the Jews are the bad guy's. The had to lie and change scripture's to get the pagans to follow them. All sort's of fun stuff was brought about by those heathen's following a false Messiah.

Not blaming anyone, simply using the same terminology the NT uses.
I suppose I could have used 'political leaders', but then I would have missed out on the fun of baiting you.

BTW who is 'they'? The Church of Rome perhaps? Or modern 'Christianity' in general? Both certainly have an unhealthy admixture of paganism, but if you are painting the modern 'Christian' church as anti-Jewish you've got it 180 degrees out of phase. If anything the mainstream church is subservient to Judaism, even renaming it 'Judeo-Christianity'.

[edit on 18-3-2006 by resistor]

[edit on 18-3-2006 by resistor]

BTW who is 'they'? The Church of Rome perhaps? Or modern 'Christianity' in general.

They, back then would have been the Romans, especially after Constantine brought Christianity to power. Even today there are many Christians who when calling someone a Jew make it sound as if it's an insult, or even some who still make the Jewish people look like the bad guy's.

but then I would have missed out on the fun of baiting you.

Why would you need to 'bait' me? If you've got a problem with anything I say you can come right out and say it, no need 'bait' me. Be a man.

---The Messiah himself is supposed to be doing this. There has been and is no Messiah now leading them back. Nor are all Jews are going back.


he is doing it. thats why they are going back.



--- The prophecy doesn't call for a second comming. The Messiah is to do these thing's outright. This is why the Jews never considered Jesus as the Messiah. The Romans killed Jesus just as the Romans killed Bar Kochba (another supposed Messiah). There have been many before Jesus who claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, all have died before fulfilling the prophecies.

the messiah does things in order and in time. the jews expected the messiah to come and ride off into the sunset, but thats not what the prophets of the old testemant said he would do. and it happened exactly like they said and still is to this day. the romans had a part in his death but it was mankind that killed him.... jesus is still alive thats whats different from the others who claimed the title.

--- It is through the misinterpretation's of Jesus' teaching that have lead christianity to commit these act's. If Jesus were the true Messiah, these act's would not have been done, as the true Messiah is to usher in an era of peace. Not an era of misinterpretations to commit sins

exactly. the era of peace will happen soon. right now the antichrist is roaming around teaching misinterpretations of jesus teachings and until everything happens that is suppose to, peace will happen.

---34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35"For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;

36and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household."
Mathew 10:34

---Who was Jesus talking to at this time? This is not the sayings of the true Messiah.

peace may be disturbed when the truth is taught, truth is not to blame. He in whom there is "no truth" (Jn. 8:44) is constantly seeking every avenue to blind and prejudice men against its reception (2 Cor 4:4). Conflict is unpleasant and change may involve difficulty. jesus is speaking about the divisions that will come, even among family members, over their belief or lack of belief about Him... the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" (Eph 6:17) This sword divides those who believe from those who do not. It uncovers the sins of sinners and sparks hatred and mistrust. The sword of truth knows no boundaries. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Heb 4:12)
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---Mark is a Christian gospel. But, since you raised it. Jesus could not have been a descendent of Abraham, for he was born of a virgin. That right there, again, make's him not the Messiah. There is no mention of a virgin birth in the prophecies, that's a Christian invention due to a mistranslation of the word alma. Alma meant 'young woman' not virgin woman. The early Christians mistranslated that so Mary wouldn't be stoned to death, as Joseph was not the father of Jesus.

Matthew's genealogy traces the ancestors of Joseph, the legal human father of Jesus. the one who raised him here on earth.


---Did Jesus really even die? There's a very good chance that he could have survived and flee his persecution by the Romans. Rather then risking sticking around to continue preaching. Jesus supposedly died in 30AD, but did he really? In 30AD Kashmiri history teach's us a man named Yuz Asaf came from Isreal with a woman named Mary (Possibly Mary Magdeline) and proclaimed that he was Jesus Christ. Yuz Asaf means the 'healer' or 'the shepard, the one who teachs'. Yuz Asaf was also known by another name, Issa, the word for Christ in that area.

---God even says that he will sometimes grant the power of miracles to charlatans to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah. The Messiah was also not to change the Torah.


yeah he really did. and he came back and hung out for a few days...walked around with mary and others ate dinner with them. im sure Kashmiri history is probably pretty close.


--- All of Christianity is fake. Jesus was not the Messiah for a plethora of reason's. This is why the Jews have not and do not believe he qualifies as the Messiah. It's only throught the brand spanking new religion resulting from the death of Jesus, do we get any of these idiotic claims. Virgin birth, Second comming, hell, etc etc etc. These are Christian teaching's.


the truth of christ and his words arent fake. just the christianity you see the world display. and thats a good reason for the jews to belive he wasnt the messiah. if i thought that the christianity that we see in the world today was supposably truth, i wouldnt belive it either. but its not the true christ. christ did not create religion man did. his name was nimrod. and you know what its here for. to cause massive confusion. no truth in it.


--- While I could go in there (and just might), I'd be doing nothing more then repeating myself. So I don't really see the point. All of Christianity is fake.








[edit on 18-3-2006 by Funkydung]

Originally posted by Produkt
I can make funny language like noises too. Maybe I'm filled with the holy spirit!

Anyone can make funny noises, but not many can do so using the holy spirit. I'm sorry Produkt, but you have no idea what the holy spirit and speaking in toungues is. My church members don't take any shrooms or drugs as you accuse them of doing, and they obviously don't babble nonsense when praying.

When my friend Daniel receieved the holy spirit, he was overcome with joy. He had worked for years praying and fasting in order to get the holy spirit, and at a student spiritual convocation he finally got it. Speaking in toungues is an unconscious act which is triggered by God's holy spirit which dwells in you when you are pure, not by drugs you baka! Don't make false assumptions on things you can't concieve.

he is doing it. thats why they are going back.

This is news to me, and quiet possibly the rest of the world. Who is the Messiah and why isn't he covered all over the news? No one is leading them back but themselve's. This wasn't part of the prophecy.

the messiah does things in order and in time. the jews expected the messiah to come and ride off into the sunset, but thats not what the prophets of the old testemant said he would do. and it happened exactly like they said and still is to this day. the romans had a part in his death but it was mankind that killed him.... jesus is still alive thats whats different from the others who claimed the title.

The Messiah was not to have been killed at all period, there was to be no second comming and the true Messiah was to do these thing's outright. Christians are the one's who changed the prophecies around to mean thing's that they originally did not mean, such as the virgin birth, which they then had to attempt to explain away, but unfortunatly it doesn't work.

There is no virgin birth. Nor can Jesus be a descendent of David, Joseph was NOT Jesus' father as Jesus was born of god through a virgin birth, which was nothing more then a lie so Mary wouldn't be stoned to death for commiting adultry against Joseph. Alma has always meant young woman, not virgin.

exactly. the era of peace will happen soon. right now the antichrist is roaming around teaching misinterpretations of jesus teachings and until everything happens that is suppose to, peace will happen.

The AntiChrist is a Christian invention and has no bearing on the true Messianic prophecies.

jesus is speaking about the divisions that will come, even among family members, over their belief or lack of belief about Him

When the true Messiah comes there will be no disbelief. The true Messiah will build the third temple, bring all Jews back to Israel, spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, etc etc. All durring his time. The Messiah was to observe the Torah, and Jesus does not do this, another reason why he is not the Messiah.

Matthew's genealogy traces the ancestors of Joseph, the legal human father of Jesus. the one who raised him here on earth.

There's no possible way to trace Jesus lineage back to David. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, he was born a virgin birth (read: adultry).

yeah he really did. and he came back and hung out for a few days...walked around with mary and others ate dinner with them. im sure Kashmiri history is probably pretty close.

It could possibly be true, and if it is, which there is no reason I can find to doubt it yet, that would be another reason he was not the Messiah.

the truth of christ and his words arent fake. just the christianity you see the world display. and thats a good reason for the jews to belive he wasnt the messiah. if i thought that the christianity that we see in the world today was supposably truth, i wouldnt belive it either. but its not the true christ. christ did not create religion man did. his name was nimrod. and you know what its here for. to cause massive confusion. no truth in it.

Jesus may have had good intention's, but his teaching's gave birth to a new religion, not something the true Messiah was supposed to bring about, thus making Christianity a false religion to follow.

Another good reason Jesus can't be the Messiah.

"Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" Deut. 6:4

Whereas Jesus turns around and proclaims himself to basicly be one with god. This being where we get the false trinity from.

"I and the Father are one" John 10:30

Note: The Gospel of John is a Christian invention

No where in the prophecies does it say the Messiah was supposed to draw his actions out over the course of 2000+ years. Quiet possibly another 2000+ if we're still going to pretend the Messiah was Jesus.

The Christians, being the victors (obviously) have so rewritten religous history that they can't see the truth anymore. And the sad part is, I'm not even flippin religous!

Originally posted by TheBlueSoldier

Originally posted by Produkt
I can make funny language like noises too. Maybe I'm filled with the holy spirit!

Anyone can make funny noises, but not many can do so using the holy spirit. I'm sorry Produkt, but you have no idea what the holy spirit and speaking in toungues is. My church members don't take any shrooms or drugs as you accuse them of doing, and they obviously don't babble nonsense when praying.

When my friend Daniel receieved the holy spirit, he was overcome with joy. He had worked for years praying and fasting in order to get the holy spirit, and at a student spiritual convocation he finally got it. Speaking in toungues is an unconscious act which is triggered by God's holy spirit which dwells in you when you are pure, not by drugs you baka! Don't make false assumptions on things you can't concieve.

Don't falsely accuse me of saying something I never said about you or your church. I posted a wikipedia article on the subject, but not my personal opinion. Nor is there any need to insult me either. I don't appreciate being called an idiot. Especially when I'm not the one following a false Messiah.

here are many prophecies of the old testament
fulfilled by jesus christ....

biblia.com...


It is puzzling to consider why some Jews do not recognize Jesus as the long promised and awaited Messiah, with so many prophecies of the Scriptures fulfilled to the letter in Jesus of Nazareth...

... One reason is that the Scriptures make 300 prophecies of the "First Coming of the Messiah", as the suffering servant of Is.53, but make 500 prophecies about the "Second Coming of the Messiah", the triumphal King of Zach.14... to the point that some rabbis talk about two Messiah, and for most Jews, the "triumphant one" is the Messiah they were expecting...

... The Jews did not kill Jesus, the Roman soldiers did, under the command of a Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate... however the "real killers" of Jesus are you and I, because each time we sin, "we crucify the Son of God for ourselves holding him up to mockery" (Hebrews 6:6)...

... The Jews, and you and I, were expecting a Messiah to bring us the kingdom of this world, but Jesus offers us something infinitely bigger, the Kingdom of Heaven

The "Messiah" is an idea and hope that runs through every page of the Holy Scriptures... with 300 prophecies about his "First Coming", and 500 about his "Second Coming"... announcing his character, his time of coming, the type and details of his church... and the Messiah is the core of the heart of every Jew... He was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David... he shall save Israel and the whole world...

There have been many who claimed to be the Messiah... the one who "will establish the throne of God's Kingdom for ever" (Psa.12).



biblia.com...:

[edit on 19-3-2006 by Funkydung]