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NEWS: US Air Marshal Shoots Passenger on Flight from Columbia

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posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

If someone cannot understand or will not play by "the rules", which include acting appropriately in an airport, then they should stay out of airports.

You are looking under every rug to try to victimize this guy. Why? Don't you think the lions share of the responsibility belongs to him?

The Feds acted appropriately. Unfortunately, the "book" was not on your victim's reading list.


For your sake, I hope that you or a loved one never suffers a panic attack, forgets their medication, or just simply has a brain fart and acts inappropriately at an airport.




posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Maybe they should have a pharmacy at all International Airports, and a physician there to dispense meds.

I'll take 10 valiums, please. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by mythatsabigprobe

Originally posted by jsobecky

If someone cannot understand or will not play by "the rules", which include acting appropriately in an airport, then they should stay out of airports.

You are looking under every rug to try to victimize this guy. Why? Don't you think the lions share of the responsibility belongs to him?

The Feds acted appropriately. Unfortunately, the "book" was not on your victim's reading list.


For your sake, I hope that you or a loved one never suffers a panic attack, forgets their medication, or just simply has a brain fart and acts inappropriately at an airport.


All three of your contentions most likely take place on a daily basis, without incident. The problem starts when you combine any/all with statements regarding possession of a bomb?! You can have a panic attack, forget to take your meds, or even exude a few brain farts. Just refrain from making statements that you have a bomb. :shk:



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by Musclor
Hello,

We have to BAN weapons that kill. We should ban and destroy all of them. And we should make weapons which NEUTRALIZE people instead. By neutralizing people, i mean incapacitate and paralyse instantly so that he cannot move at all or put the person right asleep.

We have the technology to do so, we probably already have it. Not only it could make things easier for justice and inquiry as the possible suspect OR innocent is alive, but also, and before anything else, EVERY SINGLE LIFE on this planet has the right to live.

Of course, this can look utopian to some people, but just say to yourself that it is POSSIBLE. Mankind has its fate between the hands. We people have the possibility to change things, together. Keep this is mind.

[edit on 8/12/2005 by Musclor]


Didn't the Russians try that a few years ago in a theater that was taken over by terrorists? Didn't work too well from what I remember. There is a very simple solution to airline security problems, but it will never be implimented. Maybe the Air Marshalls should be issued X-Ray glasses so that they can see inside of luggage. You know the ones that have been advertised in magazines for years.

Musclor your idea is a noble one. One simple problem, how are we going to get everybody to give up their lethel weapons and only use non-lethel ones? Once the genie is out of the bottle it is a real b*tch trying to stuff him back in it.


Solution to Airline Security
1. No carry on luggage of any type.
2. Each passenger will be issued a pair of coveralls and slippers in the appropriate size.
3. Passengers will change into coveralls in a locker room in the presence of security agents.
4. Passenger's clothes and personal effects will be placed into a bin in the aircraft's cargo hold.
5. Passengers will get their bin back at their final destination.

Quick, simple, foolproof and will never happen. Guess we'll just have to stick to the current system and accept the potential problems.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 08:01 AM
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Once again.... read this account in the news today very carefully...




Air Marshal Kills Man Who Made Bomb Claim

...

According to a witness, the passenger ran down the aisle of the Boeing 757, flailing his arms, while his wife tried to explain that he was mentally ill and had not taken his medication.

The passenger, identified as Rigoberto Alpizar, "uttered threatening words that included a sentence to the effect that he had a bomb," said James E. Bauer, agent in charge of the Federal Air Marshals field office in Miami. He was confronted by air marshals but ran off the aircraft. Doyle said the marshals went after him and ordered him to get down on the ground, but he did not comply and was shot when he apparently reached into the bag.

Relatives said Alpizar and his wife had been on a working vacation in Peru. A neighbor who said he had been asked to watch the couple's home described the vacation as a missionary trip.

"We're all still in shock. We're just speechless," a sister-in-law, Kelley Buechner, said by telephone from her home in Milwaukee.

The shooting occurred shortly after 2 p.m. as Flight 924 was about to take off for Orlando with the man and 119 other passengers and crew, American spokesman Tim Wagner said.

After the shooting, investigators spread passengers' bags on the tarmac and let dogs sniff them for explosives, and bomb squad members blew up at least two bags.

No bomb was found, Bauer said. He said there was no reason to believe there was any connection to terrorists.

The concourse where the shooting took place was shut down for a half-hour, but the rest of the airport continued operating, officials said.

Federal officials declined to say how many times Alpizar was shot, or reveal how many air marshals were on the plane.

Mary Gardner, a passenger aboard the Orlando-bound flight, told WTVJ-TV in Miami that the man ran down the aisle from the rear of the plane. "He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air," she said. She said a woman followed, shouting, "My husband! My husband!"

Mike Irizarry, a passenger shown on CNN, added that Alpizar "just kept saying, 'I got to get off, I got to get off' and then he ran off the plane."

Gardner said she heard the woman say her husband was bipolar - a mental illness also known as manic-depression - and had not had his medication. Bauer said he could not say whether Alpizar was ill.

Gardner said four to five shots were fired. She could not see the shooting...

Argote said Alpizar got up from his seat and ran toward the plane's door, with his wife yelling in Spanish. "Officers told him to stop and he said no. ... He was running like a crazy man," she said.

Passenger Mike Deshears, who works for the Marriott vacation club in Orlando area, said that as the couple ran, "a gentleman in a Hawaiian shirt immediately followed. ... It was a matter of seconds before there was six pops."


more...



The feds will not confirm the number of shots? Why? Witnesses say they heard between 4-6 shots seconds after he was followed off the plane.

Not one witness mentions anything about him saying he had a bomb! Only the feds assert that.

IMO, this does not look clean at all.


[edit on 8-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 08:07 AM
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You are right loam: this STINKS!
For example, if this guy is Running, and Marshals yell STOP!, why don't they shoot him in his legs and make him incapable of moving? That is the first step - or are Marshals under direct orders to Shoot to Kill when a suspect does not comply with their Requests?

I remember when the London incident happened, and Police shot a Man 6 or 7 times in the Head for not Hearing them - and I said, maybe the guy had an iPod or a Discman in his ears; I used to have that, and Cops stopped me only after chasing me for 50 meters, because I did not hear them. I would probably end up DEAD in UK and US - shot in the Head by the "Security Forces".

As I said before - things WILL get more Complicated and WILL get out of Hand; this event and the London shootings are just the beginning...

[edit on 8/12/05 by Souljah]



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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And then there is this convenient story in this morning's news, given by federal officials only to ABC News...




EXCLUSIVE: Shoe Bomber Alert Preceded Airport Shooting

Dec. 7, 2005 — Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News they had been on the alert for a possible shoe bomber when a federal air marshal opened fire at the Miami International Airport today.

In today's incident, an agitated passenger claiming to have a bomb in his backpack was shot and killed by a federal air marshal, officials said. No bomb was found.

Officials say a 50-year-old Egyptian man was stopped six days ago at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport. Sources say he had a suspicious pair of shoes that tested positive five times for the explosive substance TATP on the interior of his shoes between the heel and sole.

Federal officials say the man's shoes are remarkably similar to those used by shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to blow up an American Airlines jet over the Atlantic four years ago.

The Egyptian man's destination was Des Moines, Iowa, sources say, and he claimed he was a student at Iowa State University in Ames.

Strangely, after holding him overnight, airport security in New York released him. The FBI was notified after he was released. Now the FBI has put out a nationwide alert.

The man shot dead in Miami appears to have been deranged, but the missing Egyptian may help explain why air marshals acted as they did.



This guy tested positive for explosives and they let him go?????

Also, why leak this story now if it happened six days ago? They obviously didn't conclude he was a threat then...right?

But a poor mentally ill guy, who's wife is screaming in real time what his problem is, gets shot???


Wake up people... this smells more rotten by the hour.


[edit on 8-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by loam

But a poor mentally ill guy, who's wife is screaming in real time what his problem is, gets shot???


Wake up people... this smells more rotten by the hour.

And we know that she was not part of some tag team because____???

The dead man told the marshalls he had a bomb in the overhead, started running, refused to stop when ordered to, reached into his bag, refused to stop when ordered to, and was then shot.

You continue to harp on the fact that the only ones who heard him yell bomb were the marshalls. What about the fact that the dead man's brother-in-law saying that he knew nothing about him being mentally ill? That sounds more like the dead man got what he wanted - suicide by cop maybe?

Officials could not confirm if Alpizar suffered from mental illness. His mother-in-law told WKMG television in Orlando that he suffered from bipolar disorder, but his brother-in-law, Steven Buechner, told CNN he was unaware of any mental problems.


How about this quote from your link:

Argote said Alpizar got up from his seat and ran toward the plane's door, with his wife yelling in Spanish.


In Spanish? Puts a whole new twist on things, eh?

For those puzzled by the fact that mention had been made that no US Air Marshall has every fired their weapon in the line of duty yet, why did they emphasize that?

Because this is the only, final time that they will be able to make that statement. Because they were proud of their record of being able to handle incidents without resorting to gunfire.

Marshals fly undercover, and which planes they're on is a closely guarded secret. Until Wednesday, no marshal had fired a weapon, though they had been involved in scores of incidents.


Finally, I ask any medical people out there: will a single dose of medicine have an immediate effect on a person with bipolar affliction? My instinct tells me no, that it is one of those drugs that take time to build up in your system before they become effective; maybe weeks of time.

So this whole "he didn't take his meds" may be a "So what?" issue after all.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:05 AM
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Rigoberto Alpizar was killed on December 7, 2005, after his return home to the US from Ecuador. The information reported by the media - and authorities - is contradictory, and does not explain the event satisfactorily. Authorities claim Alpizar made a bomb threat, but witnesses did not report a threat. By all accounts, there was not enough time for Alpizar to have made such a threat - witnesses report that he ran down the aisle, and within seconds, 5 or 6 shots rang out . He may have made it off the plane - but no one really knows. Clearly, there is more going on than meets the eye.

Alpizar's death could have been a political execution.

The day before Alpizar was killed, December 6, was the day Bush hoped to close the Andean Free trade Agreement (AFTA). AFTA is to replace the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA), which was killed by South America's new free trade bloc Mercosur - mainly under Brazil's leadership. Negotiations in South America took another nasty turn this week when Chavez-led Venezuela joined Mercosur. ...So it looks like AFTA is Bush's only hope for pushing US-dominated "free trade" into South America.

But - at the end of November, first Ecuador, then Columbia and Peru suspended AFTA negotiations with the Bush administration.

Ecuador is leading the Andean resistance to US-style free trade, driven by indigenous peoples and activists.

Two people bearing the name Alpizar are well-known activists fighting against AFTA and the FTAA, and for Mexican Human Rights under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA):

Javier Hernandez Alpizar - a reporter, described as an "editorial writer" by Reporters Without Borders. He writes in Spanish, and works against AFTA, the FTAA, and exposes NAFTA-related corruption in Mexico.

Lydia Alpizar - an activist, with the Association for Women's Rights in Development (AWID). She fights for women's human rights, and lectures on how women's human rights are being used opportunistically by pro-globalization forces in their anti-terrorism campaigns.


Are these Alpizars related? Was Rigoberto Alpizar's killing a hit, a payback? Because Rigoberto Alpizar was vulnerable and available? Or was it a case of mistaken identity? I don't know.

I do know the information above doesn't prove anything - but it does suggest that we need to look further to find out why Rigoberto Alpizar was killed by US Air Marshalls in Miami on December 7, on his return home from Ecuador - just after activists shut down US negotiations for AFTA in Ecuador.




Also see: Public Citizen
Venezuela to join Mercosur
Lydia Alpizar on Confronting Violence Against Women - The Case of Ciudad Juarez.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:09 AM
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OMG.....Sofi, how did 43 get the "victim" to run down the isle saying "I have a bomb"?

Political Assasination............( on floor rolling, tears in eyes from laughing )




posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by thermopolis
OMG.....Sofi, how did 43 get the "victim" to run down the isle saying "I have a bomb"?


The point is - he did NOT run down the isle saying "I have a bomb." Only the authorities claim he made the threat.

I'm just saying we need to look further - and provided a place to start.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:21 AM
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Thank you for that little research, Sofi.


This does stink.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by thermopolis
OMG.....Sofi, how did 43 get the "victim" to run down the isle saying "I have a bomb"?


The point is - he did NOT run down the isle saying "I have a bomb." Only the authorities claim he made the threat.

I'm just saying we need to look further - and provided a place to start.


My appologies there Ms Crow. I also appreciate the 43 research. I trust him less than I trust any of my ex-wives.

Based on your research and my gut reaction, something does smell bad here......and not just me feet



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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It appears that they still cannot confirm that he said anything about a bomb... perhaps an angry passenger made the comment after being shoved aside by this guy...

spokeman states " he said something that sounded like he had a bomb" is not the same thing as "I HAVE A BOMB"

so in essence... dont say buzzwords on board a plane, even as a joke, or accusation towards someone, unless you want to be responsible for their death.

No doubt, the action was called for (running away when ordered to stop)... but it was a tragedy, not a "perfect response" as has been assured...
if it was perfect, then he wouldn't be dead...



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by thermopolis

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by thermopolis
OMG.....Sofi, how did 43 get the "victim" to run down the isle saying "I have a bomb"?


The point is - he did NOT run down the isle saying "I have a bomb." Only the authorities claim he made the threat.

I'm just saying we need to look further - and provided a place to start.


My appologies there Ms Crow. I also appreciate the 43 research. I trust him less than I trust any of my ex-wives.

Based on your research and my gut reaction, something does smell bad here......and not just me feet


Thanks dgtempe and thermopolis.

FYI thermopolis - I researched Alpizar, Ecuador, AFTA and the FTAA. I knew Bush was in negotiations for AFTA - and that there was resistance. The rest just fell into place.


...For those who just joined the discussion, there's a research package above that suggests another explanation for Alpizar's killing.


.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by soficrow
The point is - he did NOT run down the isle saying "I have a bomb." Only the authorities claim he made the threat.

I'm just saying we need to look further - and provided a place to start.

I just watched a short live interview with Mary Gardner, who was sitting in Row 11 of the plane when all of this happened. When asked if she had heard the word "bomb" at any time, she said no, but then added, with certainty, that several first class passengers had heard him say the word. These passengers were immediately whisked off the plane, and had to step over a dead body, Gardner said.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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Well done, Soficrow...
Interesting angle...

This does stink... And the feds are all over the airwaves saying how well this was executed...(no pun intended)...

EDIT: Need to find the link, but I did read somewhere that they were both down in SA for a "working vacation"...

[edit on 8-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 12:18 PM
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Jsobecky, on Fox right now they interviewed a man who was on 24a. He says that he NEVER heard the word bomb, and that the first time he heard of it was when they were taken to a room and asked had they heard the man mention a bomb? He emphasized he did not hear anythhing, nor anyone he came in contact with.

He plainly insinuated that the "bomb" story was something the FBI agents brought up.

There is word that the passen gers in first class heard him say "bomb" however, no one has come forth directly in an interview to claim this. I am sure a patsy will deliver a good verification in first class.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
Jsobecky, on Fox right now they interviewed a man who was on 24a. He says that he NEVER heard the word bomb, and that the first time he heard of it was when they were taken to a room and asked had they heard the man mention a bomb? He emphasized he did not hear anythhing, nor anyone he came in contact with.

He plainly insinuated that the "bomb" story was something the FBI agents brought up.



I watched that clip and FOX seemed to rake him over the coals when he made that statement by saying you must have real good eyes and ears. At that point he shut up.

I did not take him to be a very creditable witness myself.

The part of that segment I liked was where the (so Called medical expert) said if it were not for activists fighting profiling of passengers, this might not have happened.

It also bothers me that the wife knew he was not taking his medications and what I would like to know is why she did not give him some?

Seems like the blame might be able to be put on both sides, although I think the feds did as they should have.



posted on Dec, 8 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Interesting perspective:


Man Shot By Air Marshall Called 'Nice Guy' By Neighbors

"He was a nice guy, always smiling, always talkative," said Louis Gunther, a neighbor who said he was watching Alpizar's home while he and his wife were on a missionary-type trip. "Everybody is talking about a guy I know nothing about."

"This whole neighborhood is shocked. ... Totally uncharacteristic of the guy," said Alex McLeod, 16, who lives three houses down on the opposite side of the street from Alpizar.

Alpizar's brother-in-law Buechner, said Alpizar met his sister when she was an exchange student in Costa Rica. Alpizar and Steven Buechner's sister, Anne, had been married about 22 years, relatives said.

"Rigo was a very quiet guy," said Charles Baez, 33, who was Alpizar's boss at MAB Paint Store in Winter Park until Alpizar left for a job at Home Depot three years ago. "It's very strange that he would ever do anything like this. ... You never know what people go through, but he always seemed really normal to me."

***

Wisconsin relatives 'in shock' after man shot by air marshal

Brad Jentsch of Sheboygan, Wis., another brother-in-law, told WITI-TV of Milwaukee that ... "He was a very warm and loving husband to his wife, Anne,'' he said. "In the 20 plus years that we've known him there has never been any kind of an aggressive bone in his body.''




Except for the headline, this story came from the same press release as all the others.



Marshall guns down U.S. flyer

There were only 33 air marshals at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks. The U.S. administration hired thousands more afterward, but the exact number is classified.




As to be expected:


U.S. air marshals put on leave after fatal shooting

The two federal air marshals involved in the deadly shooting of a threatening air passenger in Miami have been put on administrative leave pending investigation of the incident, officials said on Thursday.




So far no one is investigating the possible connection between Alpizar's killing and anti-AFTA activities in Ecuador, Columbia or Peru.






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