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NEWS: US Air Marshal Shoots Passenger on Flight from Columbia

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posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Correction on the spelling of the victim's name

Rigoberto Alpizar





posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:35 PM
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Faux is saying all passengers were made to deplane with their hands on their heads.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Confirmed: Passengers did disembark with their hands over their heads.

Confirmed: Several pieces of luggage was blown up by bomb squad.

All of this witnessed by me via live local news coverage.

also confirmed

DHS says NO bomb found.

Witness did contact media via cell phone



www.local6.com...

"I don't know yet if the passenger had been on the plane and was getting off, or was starting to board the aircraft," airlines spokesman Tim Wagner said.

Airport and Miami-Dade County police officials said they had no immediate comment.

A passenger on the flight, Mary Gardner, told WTVJ-TV, that she saw a man running "frantically" up the plane's aisle before he was shot. A woman, apparently the man's wife, said he suffered from bipolar disorder and had not taken his medication, Gardner said.


Gardner said four to five shots were fired. She could not see the shooting.

After the shooting, police boarded the plane and told the passengers to put their hands on their heads, Gardner said. "It was quite scary," she told the station via a cell phone.



[edit on 12-7-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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An unfortunate incident, but overall, was well within training protocol and well within the law.




seekerof



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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It appears the story is changing.

It looks like every new story google is listing are basically quotes from the Homeland Security spokesman Brian Doyle, who seems to indicate that multiple Marshals chased him. Bryan Doyle was not sure if he was boarding or not.

The plane arrived from Medellin, Colombia, at 12:16 p.m. The plane was scheduled to depart two hours later for Orlando. The shooting happened about 2:15 ET. That would seem to indicate they were boarding.



KLTV 7
Alpizar was confronted by a team of federal air marshals, who followed him down the boarding bridge and ordered him to get on the ground, the official said.


hum

[edit on 12/7/05 by makeitso]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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This Story STINKS - just as the one in London did STINK.

We will see what the Future brings...




posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Originally posted by loam
Boston news reporting from eyewitness account:

- wife got a call and asked to get off plane (described as frantic)...when she returned, husband ran up front of plane...also described as frantic...

- witness claims that he was shot in 1st class on the plane

- witness confirms bipolar comments from wife...

EDIT: Government officials confirming no explosives involved.....

Witnesses describe observing a verbal argument with the man and his wife....He was reported to have then stormed out of his chair and ran down the isle to exit plane....

[Note: Government officials are the only ones currently reporting that the man made comments concerning a bomb.... I hope I'm wrong, but I smell something fishy here....]



Thanks loam. Came in late - trying to wrap my head around this one. Your summary helped.

As several people pointed out, it's now police and military policy: "Shoot first and ask questions later."

That's how it used to be when the West was wild. Now that America is a police state - that's how it is again.

New rules for living in America:

1. Never look the police in the eye, or do anything to let them identify you as an individual. It will make you prey.

2. Do not go out in public if you are sick, tired or otherwise vulnerable. It will make you prey.

3. Do not make any mistakes. You will be prey, and you will pay, quite possibly with your life.


Remember: They WILL shoot first and ask questions later. Even if you are white.






posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by jsobecky

The goal is not to disable. The goal is to shoot to kill, per their training.



Is it really that way?

Then they should think it over. One can be trained on both options.

Disabling can be an option, especially when the plane is on the ground.

When the situation takes place in a crowded, very confined area, many things could go wrong if the situation is prolonged or a shot goes astray. The options are limited in these cases; the marshall pretty much is forced to resort to deadly force.

If a confrontation takes place in a parking lot or rest room, then your initial reaction to disable might be an option. But not on a plane.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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You're right. It's better to wait, and let them blow up 300 people, instead of shooting and killing one person that's screaming "I have a bomb!"



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by soficrow
New rules for living in America:

1. Never look the police in the eye, or do anything to let them identify you as an individual. It will make you prey.

2. Do not go out in public if you are sick, tired or otherwise vulnerable. It will make you prey.

3. Do not make any mistakes. You will be prey, and you will pay, quite possibly with your life.


Wouldn't it just be easier to remember to not say you have a bomb or threaten some other terrorist activity, especially in a mass transit public situation?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:54 PM
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It's amazing how quickly we forget. Congress recently refused to give money for the Air Marshall program for training, which immediately suspended the program, and now they're allowing screwdrivers under 7 inchea, knives, razor blades, and scissors back on the planes in the cabin starting Dec 20th.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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The facts on this story keep changing.....

What gives?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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Because the press hears something, and reports it before they verify it. It's common with plane crashes, and other incidents. Look at how often the story changed on 9/11. As soon as a reporter hears something he runs with it, and it gets printed, then something else comes out, and it happens again.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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Check out this quote from Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle:

"It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air
marshal had shot at anyone."

Did he let something slip there, or just misspoke?

Link: www.breitbart.com...



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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Some Clarification from CNN... I think its clarification?




Upon investigation, there was no evidence that Alpizar had a bomb, an official said.

Alpizar was traveling with a woman and had arrived in Miami on a plane from Ecuador, federal officials said. He and the woman began arguing before getting off the plane in Miami, two officials said.

After he got off the plane in Miami and went through customs, he got on the Orlando-bound plane and said he had a bomb, Air Marshal Service spokesman Dave Adams said.

Air marshals asked him to get off the plane, which he did, but when they asked him to put his bag down, he refused, Adams said. Alpizar then approached the marshals in an aggressive manner, at which point two or three shots were fired, he said.



[edit on 12/7/05 by makeitso]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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NPR reports that another passenger told the air marshal that the man had a bomb.

Audio


Originally posted by MichiKami

"It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air
marshal had shot at anyone."



I wondered about this as well. Why even mention 9/11 in relation to this incident? Did air marshals shoot someone on 9/11? If not, why even bring it up?

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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thanks for clearing up the Ecuador thing MakeitSo


and the argument thing between him and his wife too



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by MichiKami
Check out this quote from Homeland Security Department spokesman Brian Doyle:

"It was the first time since the Sept. 11 attacks that an air
marshal had shot at anyone."

Did he let something slip there, or just misspoke?


The Federal Air Marshal program was revived after the 9/11 attacks, I'm sure that's why he said it. I don't see an implication that shots were fired on 9/11 (which is I guess what you're trying to read into this?)



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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Interesting tidbit from his home city news in Florida. They interviewed his mother in law.



www.wesh.com...

WESH 2 reporter Raoul Martinez spoke with Alpizar's mother-in-law, Stephanie Buechner, at his home. She said Alipizar and her daughter, Anne (pictured, right), were married for nearly 20 years. She said they do not have any children, and he suffered from bipolar disorder.


and



Alpizar was confronted by air marshals but ran off the plane.

Doyle said a team of air marshals pursued and ordered Alpizar to get on the ground. He complied, but was then shot when he apparently reached into a bag.

A high-ranking federal air marshal, who wishes to remain anonymous said, "When he went in the bag, they had to assume he was going for a triggering device. I'm sure they had given him verbal commands the entire time. He obviously disregarded them. They couldn't let him get his hand in the bag for obvious reasons.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by jsobecky

The goal is not to disable. The goal is to shoot to kill, per their training.



Is it really that way?

Then they should think it over. One can be trained on both options.

Disabling can be an option, especially when the plane is on the ground.


No, not in this type of situation.

I would like you to think of the bigger picture before trying to critique the policies used in cases like this. From the experiences learned from dealing with suicide bombers in the ME, it is clear that you only have an instant to stop the bomber from pressing the switch that sets off the explosion. That instant does not give you the time or luxury of trying to decide whether you should disable or kill. You can only react to try to stop the bomber.

Yes, it turned out to be tragic this time. But not as tragic as it would be if the bomber was real and the Marshall hesitated long enough to let the bomber detonate his device resulting in many more people be killed and/or injured.




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