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NEWS: US Air Marshal Shoots Passenger on Flight from Columbia

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posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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I have now listened to three eyewitness accounts that confirm the wife's comments....but none are reporting having heard the bomb comments...Federal officials are saying otherwise....

I think it bizarre they would be the only ones to hear the man say this...


[edit on 7-12-2005 by loam]




posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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my local miami based news speaking to passengers who were witnesses are saying.

The man and his wife got into an argument while in their seats at the back of the plane when it landed. Everyone was attempting to disembark, the man started to push his way thru everyone from the back of the plane and when he started to get stuck in the aisle, he acted frantic and he started saying he has a bomb in his bag.


This looks like a case of bad judgement by the victim, who most likely allowed his temper to get the best of him.


[edit on 12-7-2005 by worldwatcher]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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Not knowing the exact scenario and how it played out--news reports can only give so much of the details--I agree the air marshall was justified based on what I've read (at least, as long as she identified herself as an air marshall, which I'm sure she did.)

Think about it, you're on the plane yourself as the marshall, you're only reason for being there is to keep someone from taking over or blowing up the plane. This guy says he has a bomb, starts running. You id yourself, tell him to stop, he reaches in his bag. Is he going for the detenator? A gun? His meds? Are you going to sit there and wait to find out how much time you may have before he either pushes the button or arms himself? Are you going to stop and say "Sir, are you mentally unstable? I need to know so I don't shoot you."

I've been around bipolars myself. As long as their medicated, it's fine--doesn't have to be over-medicated as claimed above, just whatever their dosage is. If you want to say they can't be held responsible for their actions, then fine, but someone needs to be. In this case, his wife should have made sure he wasn't a threat of any kind. If he was a ward of the state, the state should have made sure. She obviously knew something was going on with him or else she wouldn't have made that comment about him needing his meds--if you don't want to blame him for being irresponsible, then blame her. Not the air marshall.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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A mentally ill person who knows that a bomb is in his bag would make others frantic to get out of the plane or clear a path for himself. Ironic aint it?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by deluded

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I have been very close to many bipolar people... and they DO have to bear responsibility for there own actions... otherwise, we have to lock them up (or they will get shot)... all the ones I knew were far too "sane" to be locked up...but needed a little more help and understanding... It didn't ever excuse their actions...



They will only get shot because everyone is so damned uptight these days. Like jsobecky up there. I hope to god the cops never show up at your door with a shoot-first-ask-quesitons-later mindset at an inconvenient time. I can't believe the insensitive nature of our worthless society.


Sure, deluded. You can be the one to soothe the troubled guy and the last words you'll hear will be "Allah Akbar!" Me, I'll take him out and live to fly another day.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:10 PM
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worldwatcher

Are witnesses actually confirming the bomb comments?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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Per local NBC 6 news, the "witnesses" and no names were given except for one "Mary Gardner", the man did make the comment of having a bomb in his bag.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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worldwatcher

If there are actual witnesses hearing him say that, I feel much better now.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by loam]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Earlier I stated that if events happened like they were first described that the Air Marshall should get a well deserved pat on the back. Even if it turns out that the man was mentally ill I stand by my statement. If you look at the initial posts on this subject people were in agreement with the Air Marshall's descision. Now as more information becomes available people are starting to second guess the descision to shoot. We have the luxury of being able to second guess, the luxury of being able to wait for more information. That Marshall did not! If the person in question was suffering from a mental illness than yes this is a tragedy and I am sorry for both him and his family. This still doesn't change that I feel the Marshall was justified in shooting him. If this Marshall is tried by the media or raked over the coals by some bureaucrat or politician who can't stand the heat then this is the real tragedy. How safe are we going to be if the people who's job it is to protect us are too worried about the results of their actions to act?

[edit on 7-12-2005 by JIMC5499]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:14 PM
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mentally ill or not if this dude is screaming he has a bomb or is even making threats about harming people the logical response is to pump some lead into him. we don't need crazies on airplanes unless they are shackled, gagged, and bagged.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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I'm not doctor but I do have bipolar so I can speak from some experience. I often forget to take medication but thats no big deal for one day. If he was having problems like that chances are he hasn't been taking his medication at all. The effects of the medication are usually longer lasting so missing once isn't critical. I suspect he either isn't taking medication at all or he simply isn't bipolar. Or he has/had it so severe that he souldn't be allowed out in public because he is/was a harm to himself and others. Either way.. problem solved as far as I an concerned.

/end shallow moment



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by deluded

They will only get shot because everyone is so damned uptight these days. Like jsobecky up there. I hope to god the cops never show up at your door with a shoot-first-ask-quesitons-later mindset at an inconvenient time. I can't believe the insensitive nature of our worthless society.



I feel your pain, and that is the point... in todays quick decision world...it is safer to give pain than get it...

does the idiot yelling "i have a bomb" deserve to live, more than a plane full of innocents?
the air marshall did the right thing UNLESS!....
he didn't mention a bomb.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:27 PM
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The air marshall did the only right thing she could do in that situation.

The terror groups even use the weak mentally ill people to reach their perverted goals. The suicide bomber in Netanya/Israel this week who killed 5 and wounded at least 55 also has been mentally ill - he was sent by his own 3 terror-brothers.

How else could she decide in that second? In my opinion there is no other way if one claims to have a bomb.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by Riwka]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:31 PM
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Obviously the air marshal did the right thing. If the wife said he hasn't been taking his medicine, I can't believe she allowed him to fly...if anyone else had been injured, I think she would be liable.

I wonder if this is going to adversely affect the already struggling airlines.

[edit on 12/7/2005 by djohnsto77]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Kind of Reminds me of London Shootings of "Suspected Terrorist" on Subway - which turned out to be an Innocent Civilan, from Brazil. Which just prooves one thing:

Policemen and Women these days are having VERY Itchy Trigger Fingers.

Things will get more Complicated.

And they WILL get out of Hand.

Whos to Blame here?

Pick your Poison...



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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I didn't read the thread, but when I saw it on the News my first thought was that he was mentally ill. Is that right?
Why wouldn't the airline have known about his illness?



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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This is a tragedy. Anytime someone dies I'd consider it a tragedy, the problem is that it should not have happened.

You all need to remember that this is still a developing story. Details are still being put together and organized.

It's a shame that the guy is bipolar, I really do sympathize with him and with his wife also.

However, it is not the job of an air marshall to diagnose who is or isn't bipolar. The man became a threat to the lives of the passengers on the plane, and those are the lives the marshall is there to protect.

Yeah it stinks. Especially because he didn't even have a bomb, but should the marshall have waited to find out? I don't think anyone would say that if it was their family on the plane would they?

Again, tragic, but shouldn't have happened.



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Nventual
I didn't read the thread, but when I saw it on the News my first thought was that he was mentally ill. Is that right?
Why wouldn't the airline have known about his illness?


Wouldn't that be a form of profiling? We all know how some groups feel about profiling, not to mention the mental illness special interest groups who would have a field day proclaiming that the airlines discriminate against those who suffer from mental illness.


[edit on 7-12-2005 by JIMC5499]



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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The "Victim" is 44 year old Rigerberto Alparzar (not sure on the spelling) is a US citizen who resides in Maitland Florida (which is near Orlando)

Confirmed that he was travelling with his wife.

No confirmation on the mental illness statement

All passengers from the plane have been bused to another part of the airport for debriefing.

(I would have to assume that these "witness" accounts came from cell phone calls before they were secluded and not from actual first person interviews)

Baggage has been searched, but bomb squad is still investigating the backpack on the tarmac



posted on Dec, 7 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Kind of Reminds me of London Shootings of "Suspected Terrorist" on Subway - which turned out to be an Innocent Civilan, from Brazil. Which just prooves one thing:

Policemen and Women these days are having VERY Itchy Trigger Fingers.

Things will get more Complicated.

And they WILL get out of Hand.

Whos to Blame here?

Pick your Poison...


So a guy on a plane stats yelling "I have a bomb!" what do you expect the air marshall to do? Say "May I see your bomb please?" or "Excuse me, but are you mentally ill and off your medication?" If it was someone who was simply acting suspicious and reached into a bag, and they shot him I would agree with you. In this case you are wrong, they gave him every chance before shooting. He was REPEATEDLY ordered to get on the ground by two air marshalls, and ignored them. They only shot after he reached into his bag where he said he had the bomb. This isn't a case of itchy trigger fingers, this is a case of them being reasonable, and DOING THEIR JOB.



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